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Willis
does this exist in 4th edition? if not, is there any reason not to buy as much ware as possible and get your essense down to 0.1 or so?

Willis
Lindt
Not officially no. It never really existed, but its something that gets touched on a few times. It also manafests it self in social penalties (though I dont know if this holes true in sr4)
Edward
Cyber psychosis was never an SR concept. It belongs in the cyberpunk game.

In SR3 you took penalties in social tests where your cyber wear obviously set you apart because of how the other person reacted to you. If you where talking to a cyber fetishist the penalty isnít there (you may get a bonus)

A cyber zombie had psychological issues but that may relate to the fact that there spirit thinks its body is dead and is confused as to why it canít leave.

Edward
Lagomorph
it actually falls into the Roleplaying side of things in SR, there are no rules, but that doesn't mean you can't play it.

I can see the bumper sticker now "I don't suffer from cyber psycosis, I enjoy every millisecond of it!"
Azralon
QUOTE (Willis @ Mar 23 2006, 12:56 AM)
if not, is there any reason not to buy as much ware as possible and get your essense down to 0.1 or so?

Whatchu talkin' 'bout, Willis?

Yes, I've been looking for the smallest reason to ask that.

Functionally, right now the only downside to having a low Essence as a mundane is that you lose a few dice when healing. That is, the Heal spell works less effectively on you and extended healing tests are harder.

As a side note, if you've got a reallyreally low Body, Willpower, and Essence you apparently would be incapable of healing on your own without medical assistance. Fun, eh?

EDIT: Oh! And per the social modifiers table, if someone is obviously dangerous-looking for some reason (they're much bigger than you, they have a gun pointed at your head, they're an obvious chrome deathmachine, or the like) then they get +2 to their Intimidate rolls.
FrankTrollman
QUOTE
Cyber psychosis was never an SR concept. It belongs in the cyberpunk game.


Even Cyberpunk abandoned the concept. All over the genre, the move seems to be towards a more "Cyberware makes you magically taste bad and is somewhat bad for your health" rather than the early eighties "prosthetic arms turn you into an inhuman killer robot!" Personally, I'm thrilled. The idea that implanted cell phones turned people into soulless killing machines was always retarded.

-Frank
stevebugge
QUOTE (FrankTrollman)
Even Cyberpunk abandoned the concept. All over the genre, the move seems to be towards a more "Cyberware makes you magically taste bad and is somewhat bad for your health" rather than the early eighties "prosthetic arms turn you into an inhuman killer robot!" Personally, I'm thrilled. The idea that implanted cell phones turned people into soulless killing machines was always retarded.

-Frank

But what if they are AI controlled Octopus arms directly connected to your spine? grinbig.gif
neko128
QUOTE (Edward)
...your cyber wear...

Whenever I see someone make this particular typo, I get mental images of "cyber wear" fashion shows, kinda like springwear fashion shows.
Shrike30
I liked cyberpsychosis, myself... it wasn't the physical implantation of a random device directly causing a distinct psychological aberrancy. Rather, the psychological implications of looking at yourself and saying "Jeez... there's really not that much left of me that's human." That's why things like cyberweapons always had a distinctly high Humanity cost in CP, compared to the fairly size-related Essence costs they have in SR... I think a lot of people would agree with me that having a cel phone built into your jawbone is going to have less of an effect on you psychologically then having a foot-long blade tucked in between your radius and your ulna.

CP also had therapy... depending on how much time (and money) you put into it, you could get up to half of the Humanity cost back on your 'ware (although most 'Punks didn't have the time or the inclination to spend a few weeks in Inpatient Therapy in a clinic somewhere). Shadowrun's "grades" of cyberware feel like a simple imitation of that.
Brahm
QUOTE (Shrike30)
... I think a lot of people would agree with me that having a cel phone built into your jawbone is going to have less of an effect on you psychologically then having a foot-long blade tucked in between your radius and your ulna.

Until those damn telemarketers get hold of the number. nyahnyah.gif
Shrike30
Yeah, or you can't figure out how to change the ring tone from "The Girl from Ipanema."
Rotbart van Dainig
QUOTE (Shrike30)
I think a lot of people would agree with me that having a cel phone built into your jawbone is going to have less of an effect on you psychologically then having a foot-long blade tucked in between your radius and your ulna.

Actually, owners of cell phones are usually much more psychologically influenced by those than owners of knives. wink.gif
hyzmarca
I know that I would find a spur much less psycologically stressful than a headware cellphone.
Dissonance
A spur can't call you at 3 AM, asking if you'd like to change providers.
ronin3338
QUOTE (Edward)
Cyber psychosis was never an SR concept. It belongs in the cyberpunk game.

In SR3 you took penalties in social tests where your cyber wear obviously set you apart because of how the other person reacted to you. If you where talking to a cyber fetishist the penalty isnít there (you may get a bonus)

A cyber zombie had psychological issues but that may relate to the fact that there spirit thinks its body is dead and is confused as to why it canít leave.

Edward

... that was in the Technomancy book, right? But I thought there were actual modifiers listed for having Essence below 1. Am I hallucinating again? Can anybody confirm or deny?
Ophis
QUOTE (Shrike30)
CP also had therapy... depending on how much time (and money) you put into it, you could get up to half of the Humanity cost back on your 'ware (although most 'Punks didn't have the time or the inclination to spend a few weeks in Inpatient Therapy in a clinic somewhere). Shadowrun's "grades" of cyberware feel like a simple imitation of that.

It wasn't therapy, quite clearly it was only available in scandanavia, so was due to the life affirming effect of six foot blonde nurses biggrin.gif

For the record I hate cyberpsychosis, some people should go nuts from having cyber fitted nut not everyone, I always felt the body being overloaded with alien material killing you was more realistic. Then aagain I hate the Punk system.
Kremlin KOA
there was main book therapy which could get it all back SLOOOOOWLY or get it back fast and remove the cyber

there was chrome 2 therapy which could get up to half back and did not preclude main book therapy

then there were swedish nurses whichmade you not lose any humanity on an average set of rolls
Ophis
Ah brain dancing isn't it?
I just remember the nurses nyahnyah.gif
Voran
Hmm. Unless I'm missing something in my first read through, SR4 also seems to have gotten rid of alot of the detrimental side effects of bioware, like sensory penalties for orthoskin, and having to take anticoagulants or risk strokes with platelet factories. Yay smile.gif
fistandantilus4.0
improving tech perhaps? I'm still looking forward to what's happening with move-by-wire
Grinder
A munchkin's dream, I'm afraid.
Azralon
QUOTE (Voran)
SR4 also seems to have gotten rid of alot of the detrimental side effects of bioware, like sensory penalties for orthoskin, and having to take anticoagulants or risk strokes with platelet factories. Yay smile.gif

Ortho still decreases touch sensitivity, IIRC. But yay indeed on the platelet factories. It got to the point where I just had that auto-injector implant as a package deal with the old platelet factory.
Rotbart van Dainig
QUOTE (Azralon)
Ortho still decreases touch sensitivity, IIRC.

Not really, it is just only virtually indistinguisable from normal skin.
Perssek
QUOTE (Dissonance)
A spur can't call you at 3 AM, asking if you'd like to change providers.


No, but with a spur AND a implanted cellphone, if a telemarketer calls you at 3 AM, you can go to the call center and gently explain him that if you donīt have your 8-hour-straight sleep, your cyberware makes you want to stop all those fragile bags of blood and spit of coughing around you, with their... meat... smelling, like itīs already dead or just about to die.

Heīll understand when he sees your blood-shot eyes and the 10-inch blades sprouting from your hands.

I guarantee.
Azralon
QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig)
QUOTE (Azralon @ Apr 6 2006, 04:08 PM)
Ortho still decreases touch sensitivity, IIRC.

Not really, it is just only virtually indistinguisable from normal skin.

Musta been my Prior-Edition Bleedover Syndrome acting up. I sit corrected.
Edward
i think SR3 mentioned authoskin having reduced sensitivity, I know it was incompatible with the sensitive skin cosmetic biowear.

Edward
Ankle Biter
QUOTE (Azralon)
QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Apr 6 2006, 11:37 AM)
QUOTE (Azralon @ Apr 6 2006, 04:08 PM)
Ortho still decreases touch sensitivity, IIRC.

Not really, it is just only virtually indistinguisable from normal skin.

Musta been my Prior-Edition Bleedover Syndrome acting up. I sit corrected.

I always thought orthoskin reducing touch sensetivity was a bit odd. It's not like bioware eyes can see worse or bioware kidneys filter less effectively, if you are having your skin replaced I see no reason not to be able to increase touch sensetivity.

Note that skin actualy has four senses, touch, hot, cold, and pain. It should be possible to ramp up the sensetivity of touch, hot, and cold, and tweak pain so that it only triggers at a level that would damage otrhoskin, rather than a level that would damage normal skin. Presto! you need never use oven gloves again, and can tell by holding a beer whether it is cool enough. cool.gif

Cyberpsychosis always annoyed me too, fair enough if you have an arm that is superhumanly strong you may begin to delude yourself into thinking that you are superhuman, but to be honest most people not constantly tearing open bank vaults and punching through people as part of their lifestyle would not notice any increase in their strength unless the force-feedback system was knackered.
ronin3338
My understanding of the psychosis was the you no longer felt human. You felt detached, like an observer in a shell.

I saw a description of cyber-eyes that compared it to watching your world through a TV instead of your eyes. The quality was the same, the perspective was the same, but it didn't feel like you wree there. i can imagine the same thing for tactile response. You still feel touch, but it's being interpreted by a machine, so it doesn't feel "natural"
Fo rthe cyber-psychotic, none of his sensory perception feels human anymore, and so it erodes his sense of self, until he goes mad. Not necessarily killing everyone, perhaps just quietly drooling in the corner...
Glyph
The thing to remember is that the division between mind and body common to Western thought is not really accurate. The mind and body are a synergistic whole. Our thought processes can be affected by being tired, being hungry, by hormones, by pain, and many other ways that our body affects our mind. So replacing someone's arm with a metal one should affect someone's mind.

It shouldn't turn someone into a raving psychopath or a drooling, catonic basket case, though. I personally think that it should remain in the realm of roleplaying. Especially since people will probably react in extremely different ways to cyberware. Some will freak out, some will feel like something is subtly out of sync, and others will hardly even notice it.
Voran
I kinda agree, if just the nature of having cybergear made you a raving psycho, it kinda takes the glamor of a cybered out dude who is in fact a raving psychotic smile.gif
Glyph
I could totally see his sleazy defense lawyer using that at his trial, though.

"It wasn't him! The cyberware made him do it!"
Voran
Finally tracked down a copy of System Failure, interesting stuff. I could see cyber going the way of ghost in the shell, since it appears possible that you can survive (sorta) detached from your meat body. If that's the case tho, I think it makes it more possible to just do away with a large part of the cyber psychosis, even essence kinda stuff. Maybe in SR 5 or so. Or sooner, if there aren't any issues about taking ideas from GitS.
Grinder
Deltware already allows to create a near-complete cyborg...
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