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xizor
This is something that i thought would be neat to see in shadowrun. (scooped from star wars originaly, i think...)

Get all the speed of a racing motorcycle, without having to wait for the red lights.cool.gif

Mark 1 Dust Devil

start with a medium sized vector thust drone (same aproximate size as a motorcycle)
get a jet engine
add manual contols (-2 CF, -10 load, 50 dp)
a seat motorcycle seat (which isint listed, so i used the stats for a bucket seat, -6 CF, -100 load, 0 DP)
increased CF to compensate for controls and seat (+7 CF, 35 DP)
increased load capacity (+100 load, -10 DP)

and to make it excyting to fly,
improved acceleration (+5 accel, +125 DP)
increased speed (+100 speed, +200 DP)

the end stats look like this (as long as i havent made any mistakes)

Mark 1 Dust Devil
(medium sized vectored thrust drone)

Body 2
CF 0
Handling 4
Armor 0
Autonav -
Pilot 1
Sensor 1
Seating 1(m)
Entry Points -
Load 0 kg
Speed 200
Acceleration 13
Sig 6
Fuel 120 liters
Economy .6 km/liter

features and notes
VTOL L/T profile
NOE fight beneath 20 m
flight celing 1500 m

Street Index 1
Availibility 2/24

cost 31,560:nuyen:

so... what do you people think?
ShadowDragon8685
I think oh-my-sweet-mother-of-mercy-YES!

Swoop bikes just became the new pocket-rocket. And at that price, they're goddamned dirt cheap. Hell, it's hard to get Cyberware, or even a few months of good living, for less than that.

Go-gangers eat your hearts out. Mwahahahaah.

I think I have to try and talk my DM into that. As soon as I can get a Shadowrun game...
Grinder
That's cool smile.gif
nick012000
I'll point out here that that thing is about twice as expensive as a normal motorcycle, and one third more expensive than most cars.
eidolon
Pretty nifty, but if I were to introduce this in my game, the SI and avail would be much higher. You'd also have to start grinding out fluff for it, like air traffic (if people were zipping around on these, they'd have to be regulated, etc.).

Mucho cool. Thanks for posting it.
nick012000
There already is. It's called "Gridguide". wink.gif
xizor
these, however, are not connected to the grid.
they would fall under air traffic control.

also, a note about the cost, yes this is an expensive toy, but if you factor in a custom built quality factor, the price drops to 21,040 nuyen.gif which is very comparable to other vehicles. perticularly when you look at the time it can save you in traffic by adding another dimention to move in. grinbig.gif

yea the availibility and street index are a bit wacked, but thats what R3 says they should be.
Calvin Hobbes
There's also the fact that it's getting about 70 klicks before the fuel runs out.
xizor
heres the Dust Devil Mark II
(medium sized vectored thrust drone)

[Fluff]The first revision of the original Dust Devil personal aerial vehical design.
This is a production model which is designed to be sold to a few lucky consumers who lack a fear of hights and have an excelent medical coverage.

The design changes were realtivly minor, with improved fuel economy and a much expanded fuel tank, this vehical is bound to make its mark on our skyscapes and roadways.

Designed and built by the up and coming Manticor Indutrys, based out of Victoria,Tsimshian.

Comercial production is expected to start later this year.
[/Fluff]

Changes from the mark I
Increased CF by +4, 20DP
Improved Economy by 40%, 40 DP
expanded fuel tanks by 200L, -4CF, 20 DP
Accel reduced by 3, -75 DP

Dust Devil Mark II
(medium sized vectored thrust drone)

Body 2
CF 0
Handling 4
Armor 0
Autonav -
Pilot 1
Sensor 1
Seating 1(m)
Entry Points -
Load 0 kg
Speed 200
Acceleration 10
Sig 6
Fuel 320 liters
Economy .84 km/liter

features and notes
VTOL L/T profile
NOE fight beneath 20 m
flight celing 1500 m

Street Index 1
Availibility 2/24

cost 31,860:nuyen:

edit : thanks Trax for the location of Victoia BC
Trax
Victoria, BC is now within the Tsimshian Nation I think.
Voran
I think it'd be possible to pull hovercycle type builds from RIFTS to suit the purpose of swoops too.
Dranem
This looks wiz, and if a Rigger could build their own, it would probably run smooth too... (now looks forward to vehicle build rules for SR4)

Problems I see:
- Legality: As this would now be considered an air vehicle, you'd have to have a pilots license to legally use it as well as permits to use it in the air.
- Air time: as many locations have restricted air space, you'd have to get permission from local air traffic control towers to get above 3 m off the ground.
- Fuel Capacity: VTOL craft use expensive jet fuel and you're tank's capacity is limmited, you can't just fuel up at the local gas station with this baby.
nick012000
Legality: Considered an ultralight aircraft. No license needed to pilot it.
Air time: Dude, take a look at all of the drones floating around shadowrun. The things are bloody everywhere. This thing can just use the same system as them.
Fuel economy: So? I doubt this thing would cost much more than an SUV in fuel costs...
bustedkarma
There is a KILLER chase scene in The Island (Ewan McGregor and Scarlet Johansen) with some vectored thrust bikes.

They all had a gunners chair with an M-249 on them. Very cool concept.
Backgammon
We had a campaing a while back set in Hong Kong. We figured it would look a little like The 5th Element, flying cabs and all. So yeah, I took a drone vector thrust engine and stuck a car chassis on it and voila - affordable flying cabs for the corporate elite smile.gif
eidolon
QUOTE (nick012000)
Legality: Considered an ultralight aircraft. No license needed to pilot it.
Air time: Dude, take a look at all of the drones floating around shadowrun. The things are bloody everywhere. This thing can just use the same system as them.
Fuel economy: So? I doubt this thing would cost much more than an SUV in fuel costs...

Legality: Try flying an ultralight around in downtown NYC and see if someone doesn't have a shit fit. Besides the fact that there's no way something like this would fall under the regulations for an ultralight aircraft.

Air Time: Drones, those things that are at most a couple of feet by a couple of feet, and operated by outfits like the Star and Grid Guide. Also, don't know about games you've played in, but you don't just fly your combat drones down Main St. IMCs.

Fuel Economy: Vectored thrust requires enormous amounts of fuel. Factor in that this doesn't really "fly" using regular lift principles, but rather by constant downward thrust in addition to the thrust being used to maneuver it, and you're looking at a short-range flying fuel tank. That's going to run you a bit more than your Explorer. Granted, I'm thinking in terms of realism here. Using R3R, you might be able to go from here to BFE on a milk carton of unleaded.
John Campbell
QUOTE (xizor)
The design changes were realtivly minor, with improved fuel economy and a much expanded fuel tank, this vehical is bound to make its mark on our skyscapes and roadways.

In the hands of an unskilled or excessively incautious pilot, probably literally!
Crusher Bob
Considering that even the 'improved fuel efficiency' version only gets ~2 MPG and probably uses avaiation fuel and not regular gasoline, 'fuel hog' does not even begin to cover it.
eidolon
Ranges have always seemed a bit wonky for some of the premade vehicles though. I haven't ever tried comparing them to RL vehicles to get a feel for realism before though. Maybe I'll do that sometime.

It seems that I remember the Stallion having a ridiculously short range for a medium chopper. (I could be thinking of something else though.)
Dranem
QUOTE (nick012000)
Legality: Considered an ultralight aircraft. No license needed to pilot it.
Air time: Dude, take a look at all of the drones floating around shadowrun. The things are bloody everywhere. This thing can just use the same system as them.
Fuel economy: So? I doubt this thing would cost much more than an SUV in fuel costs...

Legality: VTOL craft will never be considered an ultralight, even so, as eiodolon stated - you can't fly ultralights in city limits.
Air Time: Drones are mechanically controlled devices that have a pilot system to prevent them from crashing into things.... put a person behind the controls permanently, and it's a whole different ballpark.
Fuel Economy: Your average SUV doesn't use JET FUEL which is - in case you didn't know - a good 10 times more expensive than standard gasoline.
ShadowDragon8685
Guys... Stop picking it apart here.


This is Shadowrun here. We have huge hulking trolls carting around light anti-tank rifles and firing them from the hip, cybersammies that can go hand-to-hand with a corporate made gladiator drone and win, and mages that can can do shit that I don't wanna think about.

Is a swoop bike really that impossible to believe?
Pendaric
No, swoops are an interesting oddity that would be cool to see as an oddity and freezing cold ride. The legality of flying a city in one though would be murder for the pilot, possiably literaly. Great run around for a die hard, hard core thunder bird pilot though. Or for a little impromtu chase scene action. I think it can be agreed these are 'cool' and to cool to generally legal.
Play things for the rich and well connected and bad little shadow runners.
Lindt
It would be the sorta thing a T-bird jockey would have stuffed in the truck for when he just needs to pop off for a pint and dosent want to loose his parking space.
ShadowDragon8685
I think it's really more along the lines of "Reasons to take Vector-Thrust Aircraft at chargen that don't involve theft after the game has commenced."


Really. It's literally a useless skill otherwise. This bike would at least give the players some reason to take Vector-Thrust Aircraft.


Actually, that's not a bad idea. Obviously, personal VTAs should be more expensive than regular vehicles, but a full line of vector-thrust civilian vehicles could change the theme of Shadowru, not nessessarily for the worse.

Instead of that bike wars tournament that's basically urban brawl on motorcycles, you could have the Crimson Skies airbike tournament. (Copyright infringement? Nope; just product placement. smile.gif )
Herald of Verjigorm
So, how much for that aircar that's on the Aztlan cover?
ShadowDragon8685
Can you call shots/favors with Aztechnology bigwigs? Free.
Otherwise... I dunno, make something up. For a good starting point, think 1.5x-2x the cost of a comparable groundcar. If you want to make these really elite, I imagine they're only produced in "luxury" versions, so you're gonna have to start with those. If you want to make them brand-new, cutting-edge, beyond-SOTA, then try about 6x or 7x.
Link
40,000,000,000 pesos.

On the issue of fuel economy, how many nuyen would a litre of fuel go for in 2050+?
If this expense is figured into lifestyle would a PC need to maintain a sufficient lifestyle if driving vehicles like the dust devil?

As for air traffic control in the sprawl, I imagine a fully automated control system would regulate traffic while a minimum autopilot of 3 or 4 would be required for vehicles. All par for the course by 2050.
eidolon
Except that it wasn't/isn't. You could add it to your game of course. It would add another nifty system ala Grid Guide, only for air. You think driving on the ground has a lot of rules and regs. wink.gif

As far as "picking it apart" and comparing it to trolls: Trolls are obvious fantasy. The "fi" part of the equation. Some of us like a little bit of realism in our Sci and Tech portions.

You don't want to make it remotely believable? Don't. Nobody's forcing you.
ShadowDragon8685
Actually, a vector-thrust bike is a hell of a lot more believable than a troll wearing robes doing shamany-things and getting Great Form Force Eight spirits to eradicate entire police squads.

It's a smaller hell of a lot, but not much smaller of a hell of a lot, than the entire concept of corporate extraterritoriality, because all politicians would have to be blind, retarded kittens not to realize the kind of abuses and rampant corporate rampages that would lead to.

So yeah, if I can accept the above, I can sure accept jet-bikes.
Crusher Bob
I'd assume the extraterritoriality deal went something like this:

Corp: extraterritoriality?

Politician: Are you kidding?

Corp: nuyen.gif

Politician: It would lead to rampant abuse of power!

Corp: nuyen.gif nuyen.gif

Politician: We'd lose our entire tax base!

Corp: nuyen.gif nuyen.gif nuyen.gif

Politician: And I wouldn't be re-elected!

Corp: nuyen.gif nuyen.gif nuyen.gif nuyen.gif

Politician: What a great idea!
Dranem
On my public node, I host a BladeRunner module that features the VTOL Skimmer featured in the movie. smile.gif

It's something like 2 million nuyen.gif to build, but man is it sweet!
Foreigner
Dranem:

Odd.

When I started reading this thread, I had a mental image of the "speeder bikes" in STAR WARS, EPISODE VI: RETURN OF THE JEDI.

Oh, well, to each his or her own, I guess.

wink.gif

--Foreigner
ShadowDragon8685
QUOTE (Foreigner)
Dranem:

Odd.

When I started reading this thread, I had a mental image of the "speeder bikes" in STAR WARS, EPISODE VI: RETURN OF THE JEDI.

Oh, well, to each his or her own, I guess.

wink.gif

--Foreigner

Those speeder bikes are a Swoop bike's younger, pussified and anemic little brothers.
eidolon
QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685)
Actually, a vector-thrust bike is a hell of a lot more believable than a troll wearing robes doing shamany-things and getting Great Form Force Eight spirits to eradicate entire police squads.

It's a smaller hell of a lot, but not much smaller of a hell of a lot, than the entire concept of corporate extraterritoriality, because all politicians would have to be blind, retarded kittens not to realize the kind of abuses and rampant corporate rampages that would lead to.

So yeah, if I can accept the above, I can sure accept jet-bikes.

You completely missed my point.

Trolls exist, and you could indeed see one in the middle of the street doing "shamany things". Blatant, fantastical fiction, with no basis in reality, and with no attempt made at having one. I accept this gladly as part of the SR world.

Swoops, however, would have to exist within the bounds of the "reality" presented in the SR mechanics and game setting, which is that of R3R. As far as the tech, there is a glut of real-world science and application of the technology required in order for this vehicle to exist. Also, one can easily look at regular traffic laws and the laws as presented in the SR setting, and come to conclusions on how such a thing would be regulated. Therefore, for me to accept "swoops" as part of the SR world, they have to fit the SR paradigm. This would mean severely limited range, very restrictive regulation (not necessarily "nobody can have one", more like "you can only fly this high off the ground, you can only go this fast, you must obey the hovering traffic signals, you must get a license [which would be much more difficult than getting a DL], you must have insurance, etc.), high price, etcetera.

Sure, you could just go "BAM" they exist and they go for hundreds of miles w/o needing fuel and everybody can buy one for less than a passenger sedan because it's the future! That's fine. I just don't agree.
ShadowDragon8685
I think I specifically advised a high price tag, Eidolon.

Do me a favor and read my posts before you blast me.
fistandantilus4.0
I don't think that he's trying to blast you, jsut present a POV of how it would work in the game world. In the eample if The Island, it's exactly like he said. Someone uskilled plows the friggin thing through a building. Imagine a go-gang with these things. One crash can kill dozens of people. Easily. Especially sincei t's not just going to blow up. It's going to blow up with jet fuel.

That being said, I'm introducing them in my 4th edition game. Very restricted, rich kid play thing . But it's being marketed as a security vehicle to Lone Star, Wolverine, and Knight Errant, as well as Merc groups like Met 2000. Groups like that would be able to get skileld pilots and licenses and be able to fly these things around without so many restrictions. And they would be a hell of a lot more useful. Not to mention that they would be able to afford the costs of fuel and upkeep.

RUnners could certainly use it. But it's defintely the sort of thing that would draw notice. I'd think that for the private user, the requsite high auto pilot rating would do most of the flying within city limits. Sort of like how in R3, the autopilot can be used automatically to aid in crash test, but opposes the driver if they're trying to do something dangerous , like ram acar, while it's active, even if it's not in full control of the vehicle (remember Demolition Man?)
eidolon
I'm aware that you suggested jacking up the cost. However, cost is merely one small part of a big "make it work" problem. Note that I'm not saying there's no way to do it, merely that just throwing them in because there cool isn't that way.

In my last post, I was illustrating the difference between the suspension of disbelief when dealing with intrensic parts of the game world, vs. when adding new tech toys that, nominally at least, would have to conform to the "rules" of said world.

You were stating that the existance in the game of a troll performing magic, something that doesn't exist in our world and therefore required suspension of disbelief, was enough justification for swoops, something that could theoretically exist in our world and requires only the supposition that technology has made a few advances at a rate that's reasonably comparative to that of real science.

Magical fiction vs. "hard" sci-fi, as it were. They can and do exist in the same game. That's one of my favorite aspects of SR.

And don't take it personally. It's just acedemic conversation. wink.gif


John Campbell
QUOTE (Herald of Verjigorm)
So, how much for that aircar that's on the Aztlan cover?

Surprisingly affordable!

CIV Millennium
Handling: 4
Speed: 150
Accel: 8
Body: 3
Armor: 0
Sig: 6
Pilot: 2
Sensor: 1
Cargo: 6
Load: 65
Seating: 2 + 1b
Entry: 2d
Fuel: EC(500PF)
Economy: 0.5 km/PF
L/T: VTOL
Chassis: VTA UAV, Large
SI: 2
Avail: 3/72 hrs
Features: Rigger Adaptation, Remote Control Link
Cost: 59,280

Feathered serpent sold separately.
fistandantilus4.0
QUOTE (John Campbell)
Feathered serpent sold separately.

damn fine print sarcastic.gif
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