Kremlin KOA
Apr 3 2006, 02:47 AM
corporate shadowfiles lists Nestle as no longer existing
however on p12 in loose alliances it mentions them as a current food corp
So did they reform? or is it revisionist history?
Ophis
Apr 3 2006, 02:50 AM
I'd figure that Nestle the proto mega corp collapsed.
Nestle the food corp survives and goes back to being just that not a power mad conglomerate beastie.
emo samurai
Apr 3 2006, 02:55 AM
That changes EVERYTHING.
toturi
Apr 3 2006, 03:11 AM
You know... not everyone is as up to date on the fluff as we DSers. Not even those Fanpro guys (unless they are DSers themselves).
Come on, people make mistakes! Sh!t happens. What would be real back-to-the-future would be for Fanpro to resurrect Art after killing him with a Thor shot. (Then again with shedim around, maybe not)
SL James
Apr 3 2006, 03:27 AM
You mean there are non-DSer authors? When did that happen?
Ancient History
Apr 3 2006, 03:33 AM
Contrary to popular opinion, we're not all related either.
Kremlin KOA
Apr 3 2006, 03:40 AM
nah shedimnotthat good
plastic surgery + P-Fix chip could make viable copies tho
but to the main topic, that mistake is just an example of what I believe to be FanPro ignoring or marginalizing anything that occured before they took over SR
Lindt
Apr 3 2006, 03:44 AM
Quite a few actually. Though I do believe all but a very few at least have accounts here. (I know a number that havent posed in ages, but at least have accounts)
Kremlin KOA
Apr 3 2006, 03:56 AM
QUOTE (Lindt) |
Quite a few actually. Though I do believe all but a very few at least have accounts here. (I know a number that havent posed in ages, but at least have accounts) |
Adam
Apr 3 2006, 04:09 AM
QUOTE (Kremlin KOA) |
but to the main topic, that mistake is just an example of what I believe to be FanPro ignoring or marginalizing anything that occured before they took over SR |
With over 100 Shadowrun books [plus the novels] available over the last 17 years, keeping track of everything [especially, in this case, when it's the *non*-existance of something] is pretty tricky.
There is no concentrated effort from FanPro to ignore the history of the game, and most drafts undergo peer review before the formal editing/development process to try and catch these errors. It's getting a little easier now that we have more of the old texts available in searchable format, and we've been developing more internal "bible" resources to refer to, but Shadowrun is still a setting that sprawls over a lot of written material, and some things are going to fall through the cracks.
Lindt
Apr 3 2006, 04:12 AM
erh poasted. Postered? Postured? Pustered? Oh whatever... I give up, Ill go back to my lit. project and pray I make more sense in the morning.
Edward
Apr 3 2006, 04:17 AM
I thought there was an official announcement that the SR/ED crossover plot lines where officially being severed.
To be honest I don’t blame them for that however, there are copyright issues.
What will the agreement of the current ED owners be worth in 10 years, when copyright laws have changed and ED has changed ownership again?
Although the explanation given was “we find the link restrictive” I don’t believe that because nothing has come out since that contradicted ED.
emo samurai
Apr 3 2006, 04:26 AM
Well, they solved JackBNimble...
HMHVV Hunter
Apr 3 2006, 04:31 AM
What did that end up being?
hyzmarca
Apr 3 2006, 04:52 AM
With 1.5 million infants murdered annualy, clearly Nestle caught the attention of Aztechnology is now one of that mega's subsidiaries. As blood sacrifices go it is difficult to get better than that.
Grinder
Apr 3 2006, 07:40 AM
QUOTE (Edward) |
I thought there was an official announcement that the SR/ED crossover plot lines where officially being severed. |
Over at rpg.net one of the RedBrick guys posted something about their ideas for a new push for ED/SR crossover. We'll see what the future will bring.
But I doubt that the ED license will be handed over to another company in the next years. RB is doing good work and releasing a lot of PDFs in the last months. Plus their dead-trees will be printed on demand, so there the chance of making a loss are low.
Synner
Apr 3 2006, 08:21 AM
QUOTE (Kremlin KOA @ Apr 3 2006, 02:47 AM) |
but to the main topic, that mistake is just an example of what I believe to be FanPro ignoring or marginalizing anything that occured before they took over SR |
Or maybe you should check your references... See, the Loose Alliances writers actually did do their research and they got it right.
While Corporate Shadowfiles does say Nestle disbanded in 2008, the Sioux chapter in the NAN books (remember those? FASA back in the "Golden Age" when the FASA writers could do no wrong) has Nestle around in the Sioux nation as late as 2053 (trying to corrupt some government officials)...
So maybe next time you should check your facts? I know we do. Barring some oblique and obscure reference someone missed in Lone Star or Prime Runners, we make an effort to get it right.
When writing SoE the authors thoroughly research canon about all the Eurocorps and realized that the only way for this one work consistently with the apparent contradiction in SR1 canon was for Nestle to have been bought out as a brand and become a subsidiary of a mega or rebuilt with help from the Swiss government between 2008-2053 - however it's such a minor aspect of the setting we didn't have space to give it more than a passing mention there (and later in Loose Alliances).
Writers are human too, and we all fail and miss something once in a while but in this instance the continuity error dated back to the "Golden Age of FASA" and we attempted to fix it while sticking to canon.
Damned if you do and damned if you don't.
Adam
Apr 3 2006, 01:17 PM
QUOTE (Grinder) |
But I doubt that the ED license will be handed over to another company in the next years. RB is doing good work and releasing a lot of PDFs in the last months. Plus their dead-trees will be printed on demand, so there the chance of making a loss are low. |
Well, considering that ED is owned by a company that most people consider "dead" and that the ED IP is being licensed out to two different small gaming publishers, it's not surprising that the situation around ED is just a little confusing to most people.
Gyro the Greek Sandwich Pirate
Apr 3 2006, 01:35 PM
QUOTE (Kremlin KOA) |
but to the main topic, that mistake is just an example of what I believe to be FanPro ignoring or marginalizing anything that occured before they took over SR |
That's a bit uncalled-for.
Brahm
Apr 3 2006, 04:48 PM
QUOTE (emo samurai @ Apr 2 2006, 09:55 PM) |
That changes EVERYTHING. |
Try bending your mind until it appears to you that it does indeed change everything. At that point you will be walking in the shoes of the most rabid fanboys that populate DSF. I would recommend against staying there too long as your heart will wither and your soul we be lost in perpetual misery as it becomes apparent that the required perfection simply will never come to pass because mere humans are being used for the task of creating SR products.
So don't be fooled by Kremlin KOA being off about this particular canon minutia. He is still a rabid fanboy, and this level of detail does indeed matter to him and others.
Or it is an excuse to shake an angry fist at Fanpro for the misery their soul endures.
Or both.
Kremlin KOA
Apr 3 2006, 04:50 PM
it wasthe impression that several recent books gave me... I will admit Adam has turned my opinion around, and despite the hostility Synner has pointed out something in what are probably the 2 old books I never heavily read (NAN 1 and 2)
although the Aztechnology suggestion mentioned earlier makes the most sense (given that Aztechnology occupies roughly the same place in SR than Nestle Occupies IRL, human sacrifice and all.)
my apologies if offended you Adam
I still feel that Fanpro is trying to take SR in a new direction
but I will spend more time hoping it will be a Star Trek TNG, and less fearing it will be a Yoko Ono special
Kremlin KOA
Apr 3 2006, 04:52 PM
oh and brahm, it was at least as much my RL loathing of everything Nestle as it was my rabidSR fanboyness
Brahm
Apr 3 2006, 05:14 PM
QUOTE (Kremlin KOA @ Apr 3 2006, 11:52 AM) |
oh and brahm, it was at least as much my RL loathing of everything Nestle as it was my rabidSR fanboyness |
Was that the same part that gave you the nerve to berate Synner for his sacasism when you posted like a jerk to start with?
Yes Synner should have kept it toned down. But surely you can comprehend how it would feel to have someone that puts a lot of effort and time into something having that effort belittled and discounted incorrectly.
Adam
Apr 3 2006, 05:38 PM
QUOTE (Kremlin KOA @ Apr 3 2006, 11:50 AM) |
my apologies if offended you Adam I still feel that Fanpro is trying to take SR in a new direction |
Not offended at all. The game industry has changed a lot since Shadowrun's early days, and Shadowrun keeps adapting along with it, both in terms of presentation and content; and internally, as in how books are designed and developed. With both real world changes and setting changes, obviously, not everyone is going to like every new thing [or every old thing!]
Kagetenshi
Apr 3 2006, 05:38 PM
<Redacted>
Platinum
Apr 3 2006, 05:39 PM
QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
QUOTE (Brahm @ Apr 3 2006, 11:48 AM) | He is still a rabid fanboy, and this level of detail does indeed matter to him and others. |
Fuck off, troll.
~J
|
Amen
Cray74
Apr 3 2006, 05:42 PM
QUOTE (Brahm) |
But surely you can comprehend how it would feel to have someone that puts a lot of effort and time into something having that effort belittled and discounted incorrectly. |
Could be worse. Instead of Shadowrun, you could bump into a pack of rabid anti-Jihadist fanboys on a BT forum.
Adam
Apr 3 2006, 05:44 PM
This post is 100% Admin Content:
Brahm, don't troll. This is the second time I've had to ask you to do this lately. Please, stop.
Everyone else, don't feed trolls.
Synner
Apr 3 2006, 06:12 PM
QUOTE (Kremlin KOA @ Apr 3 2006, 04:50 PM) |
it was the impression that several recent books gave me... I will admit Adam has turned my opinion around, and despite the hostility Synner has pointed out something in what are probably the 2 old books I never heavily read (NAN 1 and 2) |
I do tend to take that sort of thing slightly too personally, when I'm partly responsible for writing some of this stuff, partly because its just unfounded, but especially because I know several of the writers go out of their way to conform to FASA canon (even when it doesn't make sense) and update it so it remains consistent and pertinent in the updated setting.
As for distancing the game from its roots... As a writer I don't know how much more of a homage I could pay to the creators of this great game than to use one of their Threats to (almost) bring about the end of the world - when Winternight had been languishing on a shelf for more most of the FASA years. On a smaller scale how about dredging up such dead-and-buried SR1 references as Johnny Spinrad, Mina Graff-Beloit, Madeleine Muller, the LPO, heck I even took a shot at making sense of all the contradictory SR material on the Catholic Church. Almost every other freelancer working for FanPro these days does the same and the last few books of SR3 have been littered with old FASA references (and kept consistent to boot).
QUOTE |
although the Aztechnology suggestion mentioned earlier makes the most sense (given that Aztechnology occupies roughly the same place in SR than Nestle Occupies IRL, human sacrifice and all.) |
For the record this is what we would have gone with had we had the chance.
Brahm
Apr 3 2006, 06:34 PM
QUOTE (Adam) |
This post is 100% Admin Content:
Brahm, don't troll. This is the second time I've had to ask you to do this lately. Please, stop.
Everyone else, don't feed trolls. |
There was absolutely no trolling intenting. I guess I'm going to have to stop posting to stop
trolling.
Platinum
Apr 3 2006, 07:25 PM
QUOTE (Synner) |
QUOTE (Kremlin KOA @ Apr 3 2006, 04:50 PM) | it was the impression that several recent books gave me... I will admit Adam has turned my opinion around, and despite the hostility Synner has pointed out something in what are probably the 2 old books I never heavily read (NAN 1 and 2) |
I do tend to take that sort of thing slightly too personally, when I'm partly responsible for writing some of this stuff, partly because its just unfounded, but especially because I know several of the writers go out of their way to conform to FASA canon (even when it doesn't make sense) and update it so it remains consistent and pertinent in the updated setting.
As for distancing the game from its roots... As a writer I don't know how much more of a homage I could pay to the creators of this great game than to use one of their Threats to (almost) bring about the end of the world - when Winternight had been languishing on a shelf for more most of the FASA years. On a smaller scale how about dredging up such dead-and-buried SR1 references as Johnny Spinrad, Mina Graff-Beloit, Madeleine Muller, the LPO, heck I even took a shot at making sense of all the contradictory SR material on the Catholic Church. Almost every other freelancer working for FanPro these days does the same and the last few books of SR3 have been littered with old FASA references (and kept consistent to boot).
QUOTE | although the Aztechnology suggestion mentioned earlier makes the most sense (given that Aztechnology occupies roughly the same place in SR than Nestle Occupies IRL, human sacrifice and all.) |
For the record this is what we would have gone with had we had the chance.
|
Admittedly, you and Adam, and Steve Kenson for that matter have taken more than your share of lumps on the chin, but that is one of the hazards of your "fame".
As someone that has written several years for a decent sized mud, I found it quite stressful that I could not get 100% (or even more than 75% really) buy in for the game mechanic changes I made. I took a great deal of flack and some players left but in general I tried to tailor things to the vast majority. I wind up biting my tongue here more than not, but still find my comments are very synical. I am not happy with where shadowrun is at the moment, but I am 1 voice and I can tailor my game to how I need really. (A vast number of the mechanics I do want to implement are not popular either with members here so obviously you should not change it to how I want to see the game.)
We can't blame you for being defensive, especially when you followed a process, sometimes the frustration we feel gets vented in the wrong direction.
Synner
Apr 3 2006, 10:51 PM
QUOTE (Platinum @ Apr 3 2006, 07:25 PM) |
Admittedly, you and Adam, and Steve Kenson for that matter have taken more than your share of lumps on the chin, but that is one of the hazards of your "fame". |
I can take the lumps. In some cases I've earned them. And I enjoy constructive criticism and feedback. I have no problem with people not liking my writing, I have no problem with people not liking the rules I had a hand in (SOTA64 comes to mind), I have no problem with people coming forward to say that they feel SR is/has been going in the wrong direction and I certainly have no problem with people pointing to flaws in my published material (heck, System Failure ended up with more than I care for).
I do, however, mind that people bring up something so minor as this (and get it wrong) to validate an opinion. Myabe if the example chosen wasn't evidence of the exact opposite of what was being suggested then I might have been more receptive.
QUOTE |
I am not happy with where shadowrun is at the moment, but I am 1 voice and I can tailor my game to how I need really. |
Well, this thread has been setting oriented rather than mechanics oriented. As Adam said the game is constantly evolving and some people will like it others will not (just like in the past). Given what I've seen of upcoming books I'd say that anyone who liked what FanPro was starting to do with the setting from in SoTA63, SoE, SoTA64, Loose Alliances, SoA, and System Failure then you should like what's coming.
Kremlin KOA
Apr 4 2006, 12:27 AM
okay to set the record straight on this
Synner sorry for any offence
Loved the SOTA books
likes SoE
Havent got my mitts on SoA yet
am reading Loose alliances
am of two minds about System failure (loved the winternight.dissonance/deus thread. Like the WMI, disliked the california stuff and the cheesiness of how dankwalther was eliminated. Feel te assassination of Haefner was unnecessary, as he couldn't serve another term anyway. And want to see Daviar reappear. Although don't care one way or the other if Mercury survives)
ALthough this does bring up the thought
Given that his voice and his son are missing, presumed dead. How angry is the Cyberzombie formerly known as dunkelzahn?
HMHVV Hunter
Apr 4 2006, 01:10 AM
QUOTE (Kremlin KOA) |
Feel te assassination of Haefner was unnecessary, as he couldn't serve another term anyway. |
Minor nitpick:
Actually, yeah, he could have (UCAS doesn't have term limits on the president; that was either implied or said outright in "Shadows of North America").
Kremlin KOA
Apr 4 2006, 01:16 AM
curious
oh well
nick012000
Apr 4 2006, 01:45 AM
Dunklezahn: President for Life.
Kremlin KOA
Apr 4 2006, 01:52 AM
tru dat
emo samurai
Apr 4 2006, 04:07 AM
Or undeath.
HMHVV Hunter
Apr 4 2006, 07:08 AM
A little off-topic, but referencing an earlier comment made in this thread:
What did that file "JackBNimble" end up being? Someone said they solved that mystery (it was a bequest in Dunkie's will), but I've never heard of what it was.
hyzmarca
Apr 4 2006, 07:28 AM
It hasn't really been solved.
[ Spoiler ]
Apparently, it is a sentient or semi-sentient progrm that "saves" people. Exactly what it does, why it does what it does, and where it came from are still a mystery. It may be responsible for creating technomancers and/or ghosts in the machine.
JackBNimble refers to itself in the third person.
Dogsoup
Apr 5 2006, 03:21 PM
QUOTE (hyzmarca) |
It hasn't really been solved.
[ Spoiler ] Apparently, it is a sentient or semi-sentient progrm that "saves" people. Exactly what it does, why it does what it does, and where it came from are still a mystery. It may be responsible for creating technomancers and/or ghosts in the machine. JackBNimble refers to itself in the third person. |
[ Spoiler ]
I don't buy that "behind TMs" part: The impression I got is that JBN was very specialized in his field of activities somehow, that he didn't show interest in other things than his given task. Would this be true it could also mean that whatever created JBN somehow foresaw (didn't Dunk get hold of the file quite early, like in the 30's or 40's?) the breakdown of a global neural network, not necessarily predicting what or whom would cause the event.
In any case it's not unreasonable to assume JBN is a unique entity IMO, different from anything already existing. (Matrix spirits? DUN DUN DUUUUH!)
Not that I have any proof to back my line of thinking
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