Full Version: Scorched Flaw in SR4?
Seems to me like he was just proving his point multiple ways, which is the opposite of shooting himself in the foot.
um, he is sticking to his guns. SR4 says that many former otaku are now technomancers. what's an otaku? well, they're defined in Matrix--which is the book he referenced. as stated, they are members of an otaku tribe, who may or may not have been gifted with strange powers pre-Crash 2.0, and who may or may not have had a datajack implanted before that point.
No, but a White definately had Datajacks, as well as a host of other stuff that should put a Technomancer at a nice healthy Essence rating for spellcasting - errr - Complex Forming. 
a White, sure. but not necessarily an otaku. that was part of what made otaku cool.
Earlier it was specified that the character had been a white, not just an otaku.
My character had his datajack removed after retiring from hacking so no he didn't have one. Although he would still have the essence loss which I had completely forgotten to calculate on my sheet. Infact the essence stat was missing entirely from my sheet, which SD stated in his rant in the other thread. Statistically speaking though it would have reduced my 5 magic to 4 and since it was a mystic adept it wouldn't have made any actual difference to any other numbers. This would only have affected future dice rolls.
From a GM standpoint I would have allowed an awakened character to take scorched provided it was for background purposes and they included either a very good background or some old tech knowledge/action abilities.
Of course this whole thread does bring up some interesting points. Would any of you allow an adept or mage to take the Sensitive System quality. Or any character to take something like Incompetent - leadership or shadowing? Sr4 qualities seem to be made with abuse in mind which is why I'm not faulting him or any GM for saying yes or no to a character's choices. I was just saying his response was exaggerated and rude.
From a GM standpoint I would have allowed an awakened character to take scorched provided it was for background purposes and they included either a very good background or some old tech knowledge/action abilities.
Of course this whole thread does bring up some interesting points. Would any of you allow an adept or mage to take the Sensitive System quality. Or any character to take something like Incompetent - leadership or shadowing? Sr4 qualities seem to be made with abuse in mind which is why I'm not faulting him or any GM for saying yes or no to a character's choices. I was just saying his response was exaggerated and rude.
I would not allow sensitive system for a character never intending to get cyberware. But I'm also not the type of GM to have characters wake up somewhere with mystery gear in them. If I were, I'd think about allowing it, but my players would almost assuredly not think about taking it.
I also would not allow a character to take incompetence for a skill that is never going to be used. It is possible that you may find yourself needing to shadow someone some day, so that one might be ok.
My players tend to stay away from flaws though, as the world is already unfair enough without giving it a leg up.
I also would not allow a character to take incompetence for a skill that is never going to be used. It is possible that you may find yourself needing to shadow someone some day, so that one might be ok.
My players tend to stay away from flaws though, as the world is already unfair enough without giving it a leg up.
I guess you and I just read differently. I was trying to be playful "ha-ha, gotcha. Try again, mate." And you guys took offense.
Oh well.
Oh well.
| QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685 @ Apr 14 2006, 12:17 AM) |
| I guess you and I just read differently. I was trying to be playful "ha-ha, gotcha. Try again, mate." And you guys took offense. Oh well. |
I haven't seen where you have explained why you didn't just suggest changing the PC background around a bit.
So does splitski mean the player decided to drop right out of the game? That is not surprising at all. If I was there and saw that happening to another player I'd start having one eye on the door.
@Platinum
Munchkin? What definition might you be using for that?
As I mentioned it is just 5BP and, especially if Black IC is played as being a threat in AR, it can be a real pain in the ass to play with.Yes scorched with trodes. Trodes provide absolutley no extra protection from Black IC. You can run hot Sim with them, you can use BTLs. Why would it be any less likely to be Scorched with trodes?
| QUOTE (Unrest) |
| Of course this whole thread does bring up some interesting points. Would any of you allow an adept or mage to take the Sensitive System quality. Or any character to take something like Incompetent - leadership or shadowing? Sr4 qualities seem to be made with abuse in mind which is why I'm not faulting him or any GM for saying yes or no to a character's choices. I was just saying his response was exaggerated and rude. |
SR4 qualities, outside of many different uses of Incompetent, are a good deal less abusable than their SR3 Flaws. Not that that is saying much I suppose. I don't think Incompetent:Leadership or Incompetent:Shadowing fall into that catagory inherently though, but they do require extra effort to implement the game influence. For example Incompetent:Shadowing is going to result in a guy that looks like he is gawking a lot, or stumbles into things. He is really going to stick out, and draw more attention than most would even in normal situations when a normal character wouldn't be trying to do anything special. Technically speaking that means extra rolls, although with good GM and player cooperation you can mostly avoid that. It would definately be a funny Negative to see in a Jerry Lewis sort of way.
"Heh-eeey run-nah lah-deeeeee."
| QUOTE (Dranem) |
| Toturi, I find it ironic how you stubbornly stick to the history of the SR4 book to try to justify your point that it doesn't specify what made up an Otaku. And in the same post you quickly drop down to a SR3 splat book to prove a futile attempt that said character may have only been an Otaku candidate. If you're going to stick to your guns about only following the RAW of SR4, saying that is all that matters, then you should stick to your mantra instead of shooting yourself in the foot. |
Well, my point is if I stick to RAW, then it doesn't matter that the otaku doesn't have an essense hole, he is legit in SR4 and that's that.
But being the kind and benevolent (though insane) person that I am, I stated that EVEN if I conceded the "SR4 not SR3" argument, there is a way in canon SR3 that an ex-otaku needn't have a datajack.
In other words, if I stick to my guns, I've made my point AND even if I don't stick to my guns and mix SR3 and SR4 as you have, I can still prove that an ex-otaku needn't have a datajack.
So unless you are deliberately ignoring the points that I made, you really should try to read and comprehend other peoples posts first (which judging by some other posters, my post wasn't that difficult to comprehend) instead putting your foot in, and then shooting off, your mouth.
I would concede the point that a White(otaku or otherwise) might have implanted cyberware and a cyber-less ex-White would have an essense hole, simply because I do not have my Renraku Arc books with me right now and cannot verify the extent of White implantation.
| QUOTE (Brahm) |
| @Platinum Munchkin? What definition might you be using for that? As I mentioned it is just 5BP and, especially if Black IC is played as being a threat in AR, it can be a real pain in the ass to play with.Yes scorched with trodes. Trodes provide absolutley no extra protection from Black IC. You can run hot Sim with them, you can use BTLs. Why would it be any less likely to be Scorched with trodes? |
A munchkin is a powergamer that goes for the most powerful options instead of the one that makes the most sense for that char.
You can be scorched with trodes in sr4, but the character's background drew from sr3 context, which didn't make that possible. In 3 if you had trodes you were safe. You could not run hot Sim. Since the past was referenced, I would have bound the char by that ruleset, and doing otherwise would have been trying to manipulate the rules for game, instead of good faith. There are always two contexts, the spirit of the rule and the letter of the rule. Munchkins flip camps based on whichever will give an advantage to their char.
| QUOTE (Platinum @ Apr 14 2006, 11:44 AM) | ||
A munchkin is a powergamer that goes for the most powerful options instead of the one that makes the most sense for that char. You can be scorched with trodes in sr4, but the character's background drew from sr3 context, which didn't make that possible. In 3 if you had trodes you were safe. You could not run hot Sim. Since the past was referenced, I would have bound the char by that ruleset, and doing otherwise would have been trying to manipulate the rules for game, instead of good faith. There are always two contexts, the spirit of the rule and the letter of the rule. Munchkins flip camps based on whichever will give an advantage to their char. |
Sorched does not say it had to be hot Sim. It doesn't say it has to be physical burning. It could just as easily be from Blackout IC that is the root of psychological fear. Besides Blackout IC Stun damage overflows, so you can still take P damage running cold Sim.
In any event the problem certainly doesn't apply to my character, and doesn't apply to my suggestion of the tweaked background.
Not to mention the part you seem to be missing, it isn't some amazing power-play to have Sorched for a non-Hacker. In 2070 the Matrix is for the masses. 600
of gear and you are good to go for VR meetings. Not as a hitcherjack spectator, as in you are in the Matrix. If the GM isn't presenting Matrix access as the norm, not just for the decker elite, then they've missed the boat. Welcome to 2070.
| QUOTE (Platinum) |
| You can be scorched with trodes in sr4, but the character's background drew from sr3 context, which didn't make that possible. |
it was just as possible in 3rd edition as it is in 4th. you're mixing up trodes and cold ASIST, and you're not quite correct about cold ASIST, either. the only difference between decking with trodes and decking with a datajack, in SR3, is that your Matrix init is halved with trodes. one of the differences between cold ASIST and hot ASIST, in SR3, is that a cold ASIST user treats lethal black IC as non-lethal black IC. he's just as vulnerable to, say, psychotropic black IC as a hot ASIST user.
refer to Matrix page 18 for details.
Every time I see the insidious WotC boards acronym "RAW" on DS, I kinda black out a little. You know, just lose track of where I am and such. And without fail, when I come to, there's a WotC "The Player Is Right" fanboy bloodied and barely clinging to life in the middle of my living room.
It's getting annoying, because my yard is really small.
It's getting annoying, because my yard is really small.
| QUOTE (eidolon @ Apr 14 2006, 06:09 PM) |
| It's getting annoying, because my yard is really small. |
Have you checked out the local price and availability of a drum of sulfuric acid? Saves a lot of shovel work too.
Yeah, but where would I keep it? I lack a closed garage.
You should be able to keep it in your basement or in a large utility room if you are in an area where houses don't have basements. Just make sure to install and run a quality fumehood to vent out the nasty vapours.
EDIT Also don't forget to wear proper PPE! Acid burns are right nasty. You'll likely want to also keep the drum inside a acid resistant tray to help contain any splashes. Remember, saftey first!
DSF; infomation that the FBI would rather you not know.
EDIT Also don't forget to wear proper PPE! Acid burns are right nasty. You'll likely want to also keep the drum inside a acid resistant tray to help contain any splashes. Remember, saftey first!
DSF; infomation that the FBI would rather you not know.
*shrug* RAW is more convenient than going "the official rules say" every time I want to make some sort of comparison involving book-truth in gaming. Personally, I don't care whose board invented it 
| QUOTE (eidolon) |
| Every time I see the insidious WotC boards acronym "RAW" on DS, I kinda black out a little. You know, just lose track of where I am and such. And without fail, when I come to, there's a WotC "The Player Is Right" fanboy bloodied and barely clinging to life in the middle of my living room. It's getting annoying, because my yard is really small. |
Would you prefer if we called it Canon?
And in Shadowrun, Shrike, we call it chip-truth.
I don't consider flaws free points, but I don't insist that every negative quality has to be crippling, either.
Even if a mage never intended to take cyberware, I would still let him take Sensitive System. There are plenty of mixes of cyber and bio that are just under the 1 point limit and give way more advantages to a mage than one point of Magic. Just because a flaw fits the character (Uncouth for a troll tank, etc.) doesn't mean it isn't still a disadvantage.
As for Incompetence: Shadowing, that is a nasty flaw to take. Being utterly unable to follow someone without being noticed? And even worse, one of the specializations is tail detection - your character will be oblivious to other people following him!
...uh, unless the other person following him also has Incompetence: Shadowing, I guess.
Even if a mage never intended to take cyberware, I would still let him take Sensitive System. There are plenty of mixes of cyber and bio that are just under the 1 point limit and give way more advantages to a mage than one point of Magic. Just because a flaw fits the character (Uncouth for a troll tank, etc.) doesn't mean it isn't still a disadvantage.
As for Incompetence: Shadowing, that is a nasty flaw to take. Being utterly unable to follow someone without being noticed? And even worse, one of the specializations is tail detection - your character will be oblivious to other people following him!
...uh, unless the other person following him also has Incompetence: Shadowing, I guess.
Or he uses perception to spot them.
Youc anuse use either relevant stealth skill or perception to notice people. Using Intuition as the attribute of course. (NO I don't care what the book implies, being quicker doesn't mean you notice people hiding better).
Youc anuse use either relevant stealth skill or perception to notice people. Using Intuition as the attribute of course. (NO I don't care what the book implies, being quicker doesn't mean you notice people hiding better).
| QUOTE (Ophis @ Apr 15 2006, 04:26 AM) |
| Or he uses perception to spot them. Youc anuse use either relevant stealth skill or perception to notice people. Using Intuition as the attribute of course. (NO I don't care what the book implies, being quicker doesn't mean you notice people hiding better). |
*turns to look at Ophis really quickly* Are you following me?
@Glyph
Fortunately for the Incompetence:Stealth character opposing using Stealth+Intuition is choice the player can make, at GM disgression. Perception+Intuition in the norm, page 118. But even without that it is a nasty Negative for 5 BP. That's the biggest problem with Incompetence, it's in game value varies so much from Skill to Skill and indirectly from campaign to campaign. Like SR3's Sea Madness flaw. Allergy suffers from this too, but at least it has a system of variable cost.
You mean like the guy who wanted to take Allergy Uncommon & Severe: Uranium?
Boy was he in for a nasty shock when the gangers started firing surplus DP rounds left over from 2025. Not every ganger, mind you, but there would definately have been some...
Boy was he in for a nasty shock when the gangers started firing surplus DP rounds left over from 2025.
Not every ganger, mind you, but there would definately have been some...
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