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ChuckRozool
note to self never use the word "horror" to explain scarey scenarios and campaigns on the DS forums...

sheesh indifferent.gif
Platinum
Has anyone read Simon of space??

In the story there was a firing of "the nightmare cannon" it caused a huge television signal to ride out ... and was so insanely evil that millions died watching it. Another million went mad and killed themselves from depression, and the whole universe is still coping with this huge tragedy. That is what I picture a horror trying to achieve in a technological world. One of the solutions is mind erasering nanites.

I think there will be a technological solution for Horrors, but then other horrors will be trying to use technology to mass torture people.
Kremlin KOA
I disagree
Mostly because they had technoog back in earthdawn era

It was mostly Magitech

But most horrors would not use the cutting edge of then techh, so MOST will not do so now

Artificer is an example of an exception
Kanada Ten
Aztechnology: putting the sacrifice back in technology.
Platinum
they had magi-tech but its sure did have the brain-humping effects that today's tech has. Obviously the dragons were impressed and had a mad rush to comprehend and utilize the technology they saw before them. They had massive floating rocks ships .... but did 1/2 the population have them? did they have massive communication systems that everyone had access too? did they have a completely new and alter world where you can escape and have your brainwaves altered? Sure ... they had magic artifacts and some where mojo artifacts but they didn't have the effects that they do now-a-days... mass-communication, entertainment, transportation are only some of the massively improved side effects.
Kremlin KOA
So?
There are horrors that wouldn be seriously upgraded if they added a SWORD ot their list of stuff to use
but they didn't use swords
Platinum
I don't think you are following. I am talking about horrors using people to develop btl, using invoked memory stimulators, beaming psycho modifying signals through the new wireless matrix and using technology to cause mental anguish to tens of thousands/ millions. Can you imagine the emotional/psychic feast? I am talking about mass media Horrors. A total battle for the hearts and minds of the people. the battleground is not the same. Sure the majority of the horrors will still only have a harem of 5-10 people they afflict, but there will be those that see millions in their vision.
Kremlin KOA
Yes and I am pointing out that their Psyche was such that they didn't use the WMDs of the ED era either

There are a few that will do it the way you suggest

Artificer manifesting as a matrix game comes to mind

But the vast majority will ignore the potential of Mortal tech and magic, they always do
hyzmarca
One is unlikely to find a Gnasher hosting a daytime talk show but I wouldn't put it past Bonecrown to become the next host of The Tonight Show. Fla Tra Lys might just cut a multiplatnum album of wrongness, creating a brand new subgenre called "pain metal" which is notable for being intentionaly unmelodious to the point of causing actual discomfort to those who lisiten to it.

Nemisis is a fixer without a doubt. He was a fixer in the Fourth World and he will be the greatest fixer possible in the Sixth. He'll provide jobs, information, and equipment to thousands of Shadowrunners and each one will bear his mark.


But I still think the best horror adventures involve turning the PCs against each other when none of the pose an actual threat to the group.
Kremlin KOA
"Bone Crown! Bone Crown! Bone Crown! Bone Crown! Bone Crown! Bone Crown! Bone Crown! Bone Crown! Bone Crown! Bone Crown! Bone Crown! Bone Crown! Bone Crown! Bone Crown! "

The new springer
Platinum
Now that is true horror.

oh I think I just got an idea for a new character ... cybered up trailer trash.
Kremlin KOA
Trailer Trash Toxic Avenger Shamans
K2Grey
Wasn't there a Horror which got more powerful the more people knew its name? Nebis?

I once heard a great idea about Nebis or its agents writing up lame but inexplicably popular songs with the word "Nebis" sprinkled in it. Maybe that was what that rocker who released the album Earth Dawn was trying to do. The sequel Earth Dawn: Scourge Unending would have Named all manner of Horrors and cause general badness ;0
Kremlin KOA
the NebisQuest MMORPG?
Kagetenshi
Knowing Nebis' name means nothing. Some weak-minded individuals have claimed that repeating Nebis' name can allow one to fall under the influence of Nebis, but Nebis there is no indication that Nebis there is any Nebis to that rumor. Certainly, any sufficiently Nebis mind would find the idea Nebis.

~Nebis
Platinum
what happens if you say Nebis infinity? WOAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!
hyzmarca
Dateline 2071 -

A new fad is sweeping the UCAS in tatoo form. These stylish tatoos, dubbed NebisTats, are becomming increasingly common amongst students, rockers, and street punks around the country. Some believe that these tatoos, made from a variety of dyes commonly used in so un tatoo magic, increase their physical and mental abilities.

According to one student, a college track star, "The NebisTat on my leg helps me run faster. I don't know how it works but it does. Some people say that it's cheating but I don't think so. The school had professionals look at it and it isn't magical. Its just something different."
Another claimed, "My NebisTat makes me smarter. I couldn't understand what Shakespeare was talking about before but now I know everthing about all his plays. Since I don't have to study for my final I can go to the big Nebis party tonight.

Despite claims that NebisTats provide some magicial benefits thaumaturgists have not been able to find any active spells linked with the tattoos. According to most experts the NebisTat phenomon is simply psychosemantic.

However, there may be disturbing dark sides to these seemingly innocent tattoos. These dark sides are the so-called 'Nebis parties', all night ritualistic raves full of alcohol, drugs, sex, and magic.
Proponets of the underground Nebis culture say that the raves are harmless. One Nebis party orginizer defended his actions by saying "So what if we have a little booze and a little weed. We aren't doing anything dangerous like BTLs. And nobody is forced to do nuttin that they don't want. It's all clean fun."

But it might not all be clean fun. There are an increasing number of alarming reports of murder and mutilation comming from these parties. Bodies are found missing limbs and sometimes whole heads and in one odd event an entire Nebis party just vanished without a trace, possibly consumed by an astral rift. Body parts of some of the missing ravers were latter found scattered in odd places across the globe.

This news agency sent an undercover investigator into one of these Nebis parties but the camera feed was abruptly cut off and he was never heard from again. This reporter urges parents to take to their children about the dangers of this potentially violent counterculture.
Chance359
Hyzmarca, anyone every tell you that you're evil?
hyzmarca
Several times on this forum. Never off of it.

Calvin Hobbes
One idea I kind of liked that was suggested on a shadowrun site was that initiation was not "travelling to the metaplanes and making happy deals that increased your fundamental awareness" but rather "demons that tell you you're doing all of this and granting you more power because it wedges open the gateway to ryleh or wherever."
hyzmarca
The difference between angels, demons, and "explorers from the further regions of experience" is highly subjective. The Labryinth from Hellraiser, for example, could easily be seen as heaven by some just as it is seen as hell by others because the Cenobites do not recognize any difference between pleasure and pain.

Either way, metaplanar exploration certainly is dangerous in all of its forms. You never know what you're going to find.


In other news -

The mysterious Cult of Thystonius has claimed responsibility for another murder today. In a record statement, the cult's spokesman said, "He was evil. They were all evil though no one could see it. Thystonius shows us the truth in our dreams. You can't hide your evil from us. "
The cult's latest victim was millionaire philanthropist Justin Keith. Analysts project that tousands of orphans will freeze to death this winter without Keith's generous donations.
fistandantilus4.0
I had a fun run that i ran a group through that was 'horror' themed, but not as in 'the horrors'. IT was basically a wendigo cult snathcing bums off the street. They were working with the Ordo maximus, and the Wendigo had been an accomplished cyber doc. They were trying to establish a stonrghold ,and so were getting bums together, cobbling in old cyber parts, and skill wires, and making nasty cybermonster cannibals. It was lots of fun with body chop-shops, mass killings, cannibalistic rituals, and specters using psychokinesis on barbed wire to wrap up PC's. Good times.
Grinder
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
QUOTE (Grinder @ Apr 13 2006, 08:20 AM)
The guys of RedBrick are working on a revised Horror Stalker discipline. After that, a HS will be less suicidal.

I'm not sure that thats actually a good thing. I mean, the whole idea is that they've taken on a task that is, no two ways about it, completely insane—the idea that one would be able to choose this path and not be on a short trip to the grave is absurd and against the flavour to me.

~J

But here's no point in becoming a Horror Stalker and die very soon. There's not only one Horror to fight and kill, but a lot more. Live another day and fight the Horrors is much better than killing yourself while fighting a Horror.

Besides, Sacrifice Magic has been re-worked too. Now every adept can use it. The HS still has some advantage in it iirc.
fistandantilus4.0
Every adept could use it before. I agree with Kage, I like the flavor of a HS basically being on a suicide mission. It's like taking a character with the borrowed time flaw. They should be intense, obsessed, absolutely on the brink. A Horror Stalker's life and death are dedicated to the eradication of every single horror they can manage. How else would you explain willing bearing another person's horror marK?
Grinder
They are obsessed but not suicidal people. But opinons about this discipline vary widely, so I'm fine with your and Kage's point of view about them smile.gif
fistandantilus4.0
Ya' know, with a handle like "Grinder" , you'd think you'd be a little more stiff on some things buddy. smile.gif

Different strokes for different folks. I see what you're saying, and yeah, there could certainly be some that aren't out to kill to the bitter end. It's just that in my mind/game, we call those guys Lightbearers.
Grinder
QUOTE

Ya' know, with a handle like "Grinder" , you'd think you'd be a little more stiff on some things buddy. smile.gif


Confuse the others by behaving unpredictable. biggrin.gif

QUOTE

Different strokes for different folks. I see what you're saying, and yeah, there could certainly be some that aren't out to kill to the bitter end. It's just that in my mind/game, we call those guys Lightbearers.


Different Horror Stalkers follow different paths, that's for sure (and a fact in my campaign).
Lightbearers on the other hand are always the white hats. And that makes them boring.
PH3NOmenon
Any chance we could move this topic offof the ED system (and it's appropriate horros) and back onto horror themed SR? I've considered this possibility myself, and would like some useful insights.

I've recently ordered my Call of Cthulhu sourcebook to get some insights into how to lead a succesful horro campaign, but i'm sure there are people here with useful info too!
Herald of Verjigorm
I (once, only once) played in a game based on Resident Evil. We were given overpowered build rules, but all the NPCs were defined as invincible regardless of what we did, so none of it really mattered. The only case where character ability mattered was when my mage used create food to distract a massive snake. Absolutely nothing else we tried made any difference.
hyzmarca
Well that's just silly. Most Resident Evil PCs are absurdly capable asshanders who do a very good job of handing zombies their asses, all things being equal.

An overpowered SR character should be able to make mincemeat of all but the most powerful RE zombie.
Herald of Verjigorm
He didn't even roll for the simple zombies, it's just the nemesis, assorted big mutant things, and idiots in labcoats who were invincible.
I should've specified that "NPC" and "bullet magnet" were two different categories. One would lose to redshirts, the other couldn't die.
hyzmarca
Well that just makes it worse. What's th epoint of having a rule system at all if you don't use it?

Overpowered is good. Underpowered is good. Invincible and instakilled aren't.



As for the Horror Stalker, there are worse fates than death. In the situations where the Horror Stalker's suicide powers kick in death is the best possible outcome. Their tendancy to die fighting horrors i sa blessing when one considers what happens to adepts wh olose against Named Horrors but continue living.
Brahm
QUOTE (Wounded Ronin @ Apr 13 2006, 12:05 AM)
Man, I was never cool enough of a GM to make the mage die for looking on the astral.  Heh, had I done that with my group I'm sure there would have been apoplexy.

Someday I might be cool enough a GM to drive PCs to suicide and make them die and record their girlfriends screaming.  Perhaps I need to meditate for a year while sitting on a SR3 sourcebook.

Can't make an omlette without smashing a few eggs.

Hehe, well you don't send a character into the Arc, on Halloween no less, expecting them to come back. smile.gif From what I remember the players did go pretty slack jawed when the mage dropped dead. Do you really think that you'd get a saving thrown if you tried to listen to an Elder God reading poetry? The mage tried to look evil square in the eye. frown.gif Even in Christian mythology there is the idea that a human would most definately die if they directly heard the voice of God, and he's benevolent.

If my Search-Fu was stronger I could maybe find the post. Or maybe it's in the old material section that seem unrecoverable. It was posted a long time back.

For a lot of people it is so hard to come by horror movies that don't just make you laugh. For it to be scary you have to make it personal. I think that is what Calvin Hobbes' David Cronenberg quote is talking about. Something bad happening to someone else is Comedy. Something bad happening that touches you is Tradegy or Horror.
Platinum
QUOTE (Brahm)
Even in Christian mythology there is the idea that a human would most definately die if they directly heard the voice of God, and he's benevolent.

Slight gnit pick here. It is looking upon the face of God. People heard the booming voice of God many many times in the bible. But everywhere He is referenced in visions his face/hands and feet are covered. He tells Moses that nothing impure can gaze upon His glory (Shekinah) and not be consumed.

Unless there were some very key clues given that he should not look on the astral, having him drop dead is just mean spirited. I would have him roll an insanity check or something. At least that is treatable.
fistandantilus4.0
QUOTE (Grinder)

Different Horror Stalkers follow different paths, that's for sure (and a fact in my campaign).
Lightbearers on the other hand are always the white hats. And that makes them boring.

Sorry to thread-surrect this one. but I just noticed this post.

Grinder: I think that's another big difference. One of the things I always liked about ED was it's undefined nature. THe Lightbearer's in particular. The only thing that it stats is that LB's oppose the horrors and do not use blood magic. There is no oath of "doing good", "righting wrongs" and what have you. They are often played that way, but they do not have to be. Technically you could have a lightbearer assassin. I've always enjoyed having players have lightbearers that no one would expect them to be. It makes is much more interesting IMO. Just wanted to share that thought.

Down with White Hats! Bonecrown for President!
Grinder
I didn't use the LB very much in my campaigns, so I focused on the hite Hat-theme when playing them. But one of the Lb's my players dealt with was very ruthlessl, being more a Grey Hat than a White one.
You're right, and it's one of the advantages of ED, that nothing is really set in stone. It gives players and GMs alike great freedom and create a very flexible setting. smile.gif
hyzmarca
QUOTE (Brahm @ Apr 15 2006, 07:59 AM)
QUOTE (Wounded Ronin @ Apr 13 2006, 12:05 AM)
Man, I was never cool enough of a GM to make the mage die for looking on the astral.  Heh, had I done that with my group I'm sure there would have been apoplexy.

Someday I might be cool enough a GM to drive PCs to suicide and make them die and record their girlfriends screaming.  Perhaps I need to meditate for a year while sitting on a SR3 sourcebook.

Can't make an omlette without smashing a few eggs.

Hehe, well you don't send a character into the Arc, on Halloween no less, expecting them to come back. smile.gif From what I remember the players did go pretty slack jawed when the mage dropped dead. Do you really think that you'd get a saving thrown if you tried to listen to an Elder God reading poetry? The mage tried to look evil square in the eye. frown.gif Even in Christian mythology there is the idea that a human would most definately die if they directly heard the voice of God, and he's benevolent.

If my Search-Fu was stronger I could maybe find the post. Or maybe it's in the old material section that seem unrecoverable. It was posted a long time back.

For a lot of people it is so hard to come by horror movies that don't just make you laugh. For it to be scary you have to make it personal. I think that is what Calvin Hobbes' David Cronenberg quote is talking about. Something bad happening to someone else is Comedy. Something bad happening that touches you is Tradegy or Horror.

I just made a post about this in this thread because I think instakills really disenfranchise the victimized player and can potentially damage the fun of the game. Plus, I think the other players would be more slackjawed if the player failed a series of near impossible saving rolls and ended up tearing out his own tongue and using it as a noose to strangle himself.
Wounded Ronin
I actually like the really high TNs, like 30. It makes it less likely that, even with a large karma pool, the PC in question can bullshit Hooper Nelson + reroll failures his way out of that.

(And if he does he probably just used up most of that formidable combat pool, which is another goal in and of itself.)
blakkie
QUOTE (Platinum @ Apr 15 2006, 09:25 AM)
QUOTE (Brahm @ Apr 15 2006, 08:59 AM)
Even in Christian mythology there is the idea that a human would most definately die if they directly heard the voice of God, and he's benevolent.

Slight gnit pick here. It is looking upon the face of God. People heard the booming voice of God many many times in the bible. But everywhere He is referenced in visions his face/hands and feet are covered. He tells Moses that nothing impure can gaze upon His glory (Shekinah) and not be consumed.

I've seen speculation about it being the Voice of God as opposed to the voice of God. But I don't know Hebrew, and unfortunately I later saw similar in Dogma. So that's two strikes against. wink.gif Could be only what you say. Pretty much the same difference though.

QUOTE
Unless there were some very key clues given that he should not look on the astral, having him drop dead is just mean spirited.  I would have him roll an insanity check or something.  At least that is treatable.


Inviting someone to play a horror game is inherently mean spirited, so that's about par for the course. smile.gif

As for specific hints, couldn't say. The posting was short on those details from my recollection. It did seem that they knew this was something really, really, really bad and they seemed to have the sense that it was the heart of the badnees. It also could have been that the assesing mage simply rolled too MANY successes for his own good, because i seem to recall him rolling 4 or 5.

You have read Lovecraft themed horror, right? Directly and intently studying in detail something you don't have a chance in hell of understanding is going to fcuk your brain sideways and into next week....or the morgue if you are one of the lucky ones. Guar-ran-teed. You already failed/forfeited your "sanity check" when you decided to try it.

In a different genre sure I'm all behind that "no instakills". In the "We Are Bugs To THEM Horror" that safety railing has been mostly removed. Especially if they took a voluntary and deliberate action to put themselves into harms way.

Just like when going from dungeon crawls to city environments the safety railings tend to come off about being able to kill pretty much anything you encounter and being able to walk around in full armor toting the biggest mudder of a weapon you can lay your greasy hands on.

P.S. I'm not entirely sure it wasn't an NPC/hireling situation. I've looked again and I still can't find the damn thing.
blakkie
QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Apr 16 2006, 07:55 PM)
because I think instakills really insenfranchise the victimized player and can potentially damage the fun of the game.

The point of Horror is fear. Fear is the "fun". Unless you are going for the Scary Movie 4 type of so-called Horror.

QUOTE
Plus, I think the other players would be more slackjawed if the player failed a series of near impossible saving rolls and ended up tearing out his own tongue and using it as a noose to strangle himself.


Remember that if you set a TN/Threshold they can hit it. Somethings just aren't possible when approached using a given technique. Writing an AI by yourself on a POS off-the-shelf deck/commlink doesn't get a TN/Threshold. Only bad things can come for doing something such foolish as assigning one. nyahnyah.gif

P.S. I tried following your link but I don't see anything about that coming up in your post that showed. Then as a started down the thread i immediately came across a patently bizzare statement about SR4 and figured it best i just pack up and leave the thread before i felt an overwhelming desire to ask the poster which planet he figured his brain was receiving those radiowaves from. frown.gif
hyzmarca
Here is the gist of it.

QUOTE
Roll Willpower - TN 30
0 Sucesses

"You scream as loud as you possibly can. You don't know why you're screaming. You don't know anything. What ever you say has pulversied your mind. Thoughts and images roll through your head like a jet-powered locomotive but you can't even begin to put two of them together. "

Roll Willpower - TN 26
0 Successes
"You continue screaming at the top of your lungs and reach up towards your face. You can feel your eyeballs under your fingertips although you don't know what they are. You plunge your fingernails into the soft squishy globes, digging them out and popping them into your mouth. You chew them slowly while still screaming."

Roll Willpower -TN 22
0 Successes
"You reach up again, this time clawing and scratching at your scalp."

Roll STR - TN 3
1 Success
"Eventually, your fingernails find footing beneeth your scalp ad you drive your fingers down, into your face. With a burst unnatrual strength you easily tear your own face from your skull. "

Roll Willpower - TN 18
0 Successes
In a desperate attempt to make the screaming stop you plunge a hand into your own mouth, past your half-chewed eyeballs and grab your tongue.

Roll STR - TN 4
1 Success
"With herculean effort you pull and feel your tongue tear loose from its moorings deep inside your throat. Eventually you yank the entire apendage outt. It is surprisingly long."

Continue along these lines, reducing the Willpower TNs and increasing the STR TNs untill the PC gets 1 willpower success.


I don't think that this can be mistaken for Scary Movie 4. The thing is that fear in the horror movie comes from the suspense and not the kill itself. The viewers are waiting for something bad to happen. They're anticipation fills them with dread. Once it is over it is just meh. Killing off the protagnist is never done because that would just remove all the audience's fear. Instakills are why you have redshirts and horny teenage sluts.

In this case, the point is assigning a high TN is to string the player along. Each roll he has a chance to avoid horrible self-mutilation but he is very likely to fail. In the end, the character will remain playable but will stumble around blind, mute, faceless, and too scared to look into the astral for directions. The increased vulnerability this produces will only highten the player's dread.
blakkie
Here is the gist of it. Sometimes people just up and die. Building an increased sense of vulnerability? If that isn't the norm of what the players expect from the GM then damn straight it is. Also remember he had the better part of the run to build up to this, and I gave it with any mood prose stripped away. In truth Wounded Ronin was almost there.

Man, I was never cool enough of a GM to make the mage die for looking on the astral....and have the players like it.
hyzmarca
Of course people die. But once you're dead there is nothing left to be scared of.
Kremlin KOA
QUOTE (blakkie)


P.S. I tried following your link but I don't see anything about that coming up in your post that showed. Then as a started down the thread i immediately came across a patently bizzare statement about SR4 and figured it best i just pack up and leave the thread before i felt an overwhelming desire to ask the poster which planet he figured his brain was receiving those radiowaves from. frown.gif

Considering Technomancers require high logic and intuition. I think you just complimented somebody
blakkie
QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Apr 18 2006, 09:02 AM)
Of course people die. But once you're dead there is nothing left to be scared of.

Death is a matter for the people left. Besides the player isn't dead. That's who you really aim to creep out, right? If the player doesn't dwell on what could be so bad that it kills to look at it then it was a failure. But that isn't guaranteed to happen. It is just tough to envoke that, and even tougher if the player doesn't want to meet you part way. *shrug* Just like hypnotizing you can't do it if the subject doesn't let themselves buy into it.
blakkie
QUOTE (Kremlin KOA @ Apr 18 2006, 09:41 AM)
QUOTE (blakkie @ Apr 18 2006, 02:25 PM)


P.S.  I tried following your link but I don't see anything about that coming up in your post that showed. Then as a started down the thread i immediately came across a patently bizzare statement about SR4 and figured it best i just pack up and leave the thread before i felt an overwhelming desire to ask the poster which planet he figured his brain was receiving those radiowaves from. frown.gif

Considering Technomancers require high logic and intuition. I think you just complimented somebody

Better adjust your tinfoil hat a little there. ohplease.gif
Kremlin KOA
still no sense of humor
blakkie
QUOTE (Kremlin KOA)
still no sense of humor

Then get one. nyahnyah.gif
Kremlin KOA
Blakkie makes a JOKE, truly this must be the 5th world

(With apologies to Caembuel Harleaquinn)
spin.gif
James McMurray
QUOTE (Kremlin KOA)
still no sense of humor
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