It seems now that wi-fi around, commlinks are a must-have for every person. But does this lead to datajcks being must-haves too? I figure that if the use of commlinks and therefore AR almost requires datajack, since who in their right minds would want to use a keypad to control everything, if you can do it via your datajack with your mind alone? Or is there something I'm missing here, I understand that you can control your commlink with a datajack with no cables required? So why doesn't like 95% of the people have datajacks?

The very first run in which I participated in SR4 was a simple datasteal into a facility with an internal, wired network. The outer locks were wireless, but once inside, everything was on fiber. I used my datajack to interface with a camera to hack into the security system and erase our presence.

The way I see it, Datajacks are so cheap that 95% of the population would have them, the rest (magically active who want to preserve their essence) use the keypad, with shortcut hotkeys etc.

Also isn't it faster to go it via datajack like speed of though rather than typing it all out?

flavorwise, datajacks are faster, yes.

ruleswise, there is no specific difference. personally, i would rule you need to have a hand free to use your commlink if you have no DNI, but that's just me.

anyways, as far as other reasons why not everyone would have a datajack, consider trodes and nanopaste trodes... they now work every bit as well as the datajack does, so i don't see why *everyone* would go get a datajack (though i certainly agree it would be very common).

Trodes! Why should I pay 500 Nuyen and get surgery for a datajack when I can pay 50 for a set of trodes and get the same thing? There will be plenty of people who have them from before the crash, and some people will probably insist that they are "better," but I suspect most average folks will be using trodes nowadays.

Major reason I see for a Jack these days is the fact they come with a free infinite(well lots of) block of memory, perfect if you want to run knowsofts and lnguasofts with out having to run a commlink, which could be noticed, or hacked. Sure the Jack can be hacked but if your sensible it is fairly low risk.

With the new Magic loss rules, it's thematically possible that people who just started developing their mystical abilities (i.e.: gained Magic:1 in their youth or whatever) immediately burned out when they got their first datajack or cybereyes.

A datajack is useful when you have to do things quick: quick in, quick out. Its likely just a few seconds but it might make the difference. Trodes would take a minute or two to proper align and such, as well as probably half a minute taking them off with out damaging them. A jack is just a solid click away from being in or out. So while, rule wise, they are exactly the same, a "hardcore" shadowrunning hacker would defiantly get the datajack. As would the wannabes, security hackers, riggers of all kinds, and so on.
And wearing a trode net all the time is just asking for trouble, one way or another.

That said, most people probably wouldn't have jacks. Why bother with surgery and this weird thing in your head, when you can just get some paste or a net over your head? Takes more time, sure, but they would either have it on them all the time (they don't have the dangers runners do) or simply take the time needed.

Its all about lifestyle, and not the low to luxury kind.

the datajack now includes the chipjack, knowsoft link, router, and some headware memory.

I would say that that right there is VERY worth it. If this run needs me to read spitheriel, and have a working knowledge of arcitecture, engineering, and chemistry? thats just 4 chips. Its a great way to make your job easier- why learn all this extra crap, when you can just plug a chip and simply KNOW as much as a college degree, in just seconds?

beyond that... yeah, im plugging my remote control into DNI.

consider how long it takes to put trodes on. how easy they are to dislode if your, say, running around getting shot at. the implant jack is a must for anyone on the go.

Why not just install a commlink then? Costs are 1500 and 0,1 essence more than a datajack.

Yep I was thinking about implanted commlinks. It sounds nice, but what if you wanna upgrade it? You'd have at least have somekind of surgery, or if you'd want easy access it would be a bit obvious.

The main thing I'm having problems is, that ruleswise you can control your 'link with a keyboard or somekind of controller AS FAST as you can control it with your mind.

It's probably being controlled via voice activation, not a keypad. Not as fast as thought perhaps, but much faster than trying to fatfinger something out while running.

Who says it's a keypad? Human Interface Devices could have changed an awful lot by 2070. Voice-activated, gesture-based, even retinal-tracking interfaces are all in various stages of development and implimentation now...

I've assumed that if you have a datajack, then you can DNI-control your devices all nice and handsfree.

Also, slapping a skinlink onto your datajack would theoretically let you DNI anything on your person that also had a skinlink.

Could even be real skin, such a small wound heals very fast in the SR universe .

Yeah, but then you have to make a willpower check to upgrade your 'link

I think i'd go with the cyberware "skin pouch" or whatever it's called for something like this.

Is there anything to keep you from just putting the knowsofts in your commlink and accessing them via trodes?

Also, where does it talk about trodes coming loose if you run? It seems that if they were integrated into a combat helmet (or even the strap of your goggles), they would be pretty secure...

I'd like a datajack to be better, but if it's all just flavor text then it's hard to justify the Essense loss.

..because the rules for Knowsofts say so?

Thanks, I got lost in the teknobabble. After some page flipping, I see that Knowsofts must be accessed via a direct neural interface (a sim module or datajack). Under sim module it then says a module must be accessed via trodes or a direct neural interface (datajack, etc.).

I was thinking trodes could tie directly into the Knowsoft as it isn't VR or anything. But since it needs a sim module I guess you actually do get the full body, 5 senses, knowledge from that chip. Personally, I think they're just trying to sell more sim modules...

Don't be a moron.

They do take time to set,(perhaps nota long time but at least a minute or two, maybe even thirty seconds but some time longer than a round or two at least.) being rather delicate (ever seen/used/worn electrodes? add a wire net too... its like earphones with delicate wires x10) and need to be set in likely specific locs (to do this thing that affects YOUR BRAIN THROUGH YOUR SKULL!!!WTF!!! using high frequency harmonics or something like that.) And you do eventually want them off, so no superglueing of trodes unless you want to have bleeding torn skin and a useless trode net when it snags on something.

Heck, nanite trode paste almost pushes my limits of scifi here.

Anyway, thats me daily slapping down of a rules laywer.

So, in other words, it doesn't say any even remotely like what you suggest in the actual book. Thank you for the clarification.

The book doesn't say that they can be quickly put on and taken off, either, or that they are fastened securely to the head. Given the nature of trodes to affect your brain in the same way as a datajack even though your skull is in the way, one would assume that some careful positioning would be needed, unless justification can be given for why sticking an electrode in the wrong place would not screw things up.

Certainly, the book does not give the impression that trodes do not work in daily life or combat.

Likely, there would be a few ways to quickly set them. Headbands/bandanas tailored to the person likely could be set on quickly, with a little adjusting (as a rule of thumb I'd say around two to three complex actions). Nanite trode paste (ick) could probably be put one just as quickly if need be. If you're taking a wadded up trode net out of your pocket to put it on, however, that'll take time (one to two minutes).

While they could easily function with minimal adjusting headband or not(one to two complex actions), a dice pool penalty would likely apply (-1 to -3) to matrix actions and possibly even real actions, depending.

Gotta use a bit of common sense if you're going for a bit of "realism" in a game. If not, thats cool, but don't be surprised if people start shaking their heads in exasperation at rules laywering. "But it doesn't say that" is a poor reason. "I don't want to bother with that, I just wanna have fun" however, is a good one.

Trodes can be painted on "artisticaly". They can be concealed beneath a headband. The paint, at least, stays on after a night of clubbing (which probably assumes a bit of jumping about and sweating).

I'm just not getting a "delicate, easily dislodged, hard to calibrate" vibe from that description. You all are, of course, welcome to add any house rules you wish for your particular games. My concern was that I had missed some relavent text in the 4th Edition Shadowrun rulebook.

Nope. Nothing to that extent.

But I must ask. What would you think happens if someone wacks a character upside the head with something and they're wearing a trode net underneath... or even trode paste? Or scrapes a pipe with their head? Or that peice of clothing getting snagged? What about the cable to connect it to a device (assuming everything isn't skinlinked [tingly] and you don't want radio transmission)? Or any number of various scenarios that could play out in a game?

I would have to imagine that a trode headband would get dislodged about as often as the other guy's ultrasound goggles (which is to say, never except by GM fiat). I would also assume that trodes are wireless like everything else.

My actual SR4 character has a datajack so I'm not in this for any personal reason. I was just trying to figure out what is written as people were posting things as if they were rules when, in fact, they were just opinions.

Opinions I can come up with on my own.

Unless the guy glitches on his defense roll, most likely nothing would happen, at least from a rules standpoint. Trying to track possible damages to gear during a fight requires a lot of work for very little payback.

I dunno, I guess with the whole skinlink thing, I don't think the nanopaste simtrodes need to be that significantly aligned on your head, which allows you to do tatoo kinda stuff rather than everyone having the 'obvious' trodenet design.

Still though, I gather nanopaste trodenets are recreational kinda intended. If you're going to go combat or variable environment kinda stuff, I'd probably go with something more sturdy, like a skinlinked helmet, ninjahoodie whatever. Or a datajack/interal simlink kinda setup.

I see no reason they should take longer to put on than a baseball cap.
The people who are claiming they'll take a long time to adjust are obviously thinking that they work something like modern ECG electrodes. No chance. Those have no directionality, they just pick up anything and everything under them, and they have no ability to transmit. The sistem would HAVE to be something much more like an electronically steerably antenna array. (just to make sure everyone's coming along with me, an electronically steerable array has NO moving parts, just take my word for it that you can point a beam one direction or another without moving anything) It would have to be a steerable array because, with the resolution they get using them, there's just no other way to do it. Conventional electrodes would have to be implanted all over the brain, in the brain, and their positioning would have to be known down to the cell.
Basically, what I'm saying is, if they took more than a couple seconds to adjust vaguely appropriately, then you'd never be able to adjust them right. If it's a steerable array, they just need to take one quick snapshot of your brain, know where to look, and know where to aim a given signal.
At the level that trodes operate, they either need to adjust themselves, or you could NEVER get it right.

Upon rereading the trodes section, with the artistic nanopaste designs and so on, I'm inclined to change my mind and think that trodes would be reasonably sturdy. Although that takes a pretty impressive level of tech.

Consider the humble, yet oft-mentioned skinlink: merely touching your skin with the item essentially turns your nervous system into CAT5 for your PAN. In fact, there are, I've heard, current technological precedents for this innovation. Damned if I can remember the name of the product (Red-something, I think) - and Hell, it could very well be a hoax. But I've seen something along those lines.

That being said, there's absolutely no reason that a trode rig would, necessarily, require contact with the head at all. If you could work the necessary material into a small enough package, you could purchase a (or contract a custom) pair of goggles, hat, pants, shoes, tight-fitting necklace (such as a choker) or cock-ring. The possibilities of skin-contacting items are limitless, and that's not including implanting a commlink into any given cybernetic replacement or augmentation with the suitable capacity. Lop off a thumb or gouge out an eye and you've got a brand new cybernetic replacement with implanted commlink.

Note to rules-lawyers: I'm not gonna bother referencing the capacity stats, so stop grabbing your crotch and screaming bloody murder. It's a hypothetical example.

Regarding datajacks and wired networks: I submit to the council that datajacks are not necessary for wired networks. A fiber optic cable connected to your commlink will work just as well.

None of this is to say that datajacks are a "useless" item without merit. I'm saying that trode rigs are a completely suitable alternative. Keep in mind that wireless technology in SR4 is a relatively new technology. A great deal of people will simply be connecting to their commlinks via datajacks they had implanted years ago, prior to all this wireless hub-bub.

Why not just get a a wire/wireless datajack connector? (yea, it's not in the book but it can't be that hard to find, or build for that matter.

Skin Link+Wire+Connector = Skinlink Datajack Connector

Datajacks are so very cyberpunk, they really need to be used.
In old editions, trodes sucked so bad they might as well have not existed. Now, they're equal to datajacks in every quantifiable way, so there's no reason to have datajacks except for story reasons (which are perfectly good reasons)
I think there needs to be some sort of compromise. And not just for hackers, but datajacks should do something that would be helpful to anyone. +1 to some tests, maybe. Matrix perception, maybe. Just a little something, so that trodes are still highly useable, but 'jacks still have a good reason to exist, and not just for runners.

So, you're saying that getting a datajack is much cheaper than getting a sim module for use with your trodes?

err, where exactly does it state that a datajack contain a sim module? or is it just assumed given the text in the book?

I know an implanted commlink does. That's in the unwired section. AFAIK a datajack doesn't, I was taking Geekkake's word for it.

well i cant find any clear statement that it in fact does. only thing in there is that you can access knowsoft directly from a datajack so maybe its implied. guess i have to read up some on the requirements for the use of knowsofts...

edit:

bah, it looks like a datajack isnt a replacement for a sim module, but they have some overlapping tasks (knowsoft/linguasoft). basicly a datajack is a DNI while a sim module is a simsense translator (or something like that).

color me confused...

Huh, to me that implies that a knowsoft doesn't need a sim module. I read it the other way 'round.

and your read is probably correct.