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emo samurai
I get the impression that spell formulae come in varying degrees of quality. Could a higher quality spell formula have a lower drain code? For example, could a Delta Grade Fireball spell give (F/2)+3 drain instead of +5?
Kanada Ten
That has to be the most munchkin question ever asked, but what a great concept.

If I were to introduce Premium Formula, I would make the effect less... overpowered. Perhaps it reduces the signature length or decreases the Force when determining if the spell was noticed. I might even allow a slight change in the AOE, either way.
emo samurai
NOOOOOOOOO!!!!! That makes paying 10x normal for them useless!

And what would be the most munchkin question ever asked?

Maybe if they're taught the spell by a great dragon or something in game...
Kanada Ten
Dude, mages have money coming out their asses. Just run the 100 per hour making wards as the minimum wage of a magic user. Then consider summoning spirits to make the wards with you. That's 200 if you don't bother to bind any. A mage with a magic 1 working a regular full time will make 416,000 a year.
emo samurai
If he doesn't get any successes on his warding test, though, he gets fired.

Edited for lack of reason.
Big D
Err, I'm not sure there's *that* much demand for wards.

If there was, why would anybody be a wage mage?
Kanada Ten
What do you think wage mages do all day? I don't think paying a wage mage 500K a year is an over the top salary.
emo samurai
And, as said elsewhere, there are probably other jobs they could do that revolutionize whole industries.
Big D
If a mage can get filthy rich doing safe stuff, why would mages work security, much less shadowrun?

For that matter, why would talismongers sit behind a shop counter when they could be out making a fortune?
Kanada Ten
QUOTE (Big D @ May 4 2006, 09:15 PM)
If a mage can get filthy rich doing safe stuff, why would mages work security, much less shadowrun?

For that matter, why would talismongers sit behind a shop counter when they could be out making a fortune?

Because they can make even more money doing those things. But security mages would only get around 500,000 a year and be expected to make wards, as well.

Notice that the warding quote is simply to give you an hourly wage for mages, me thinks.
Big D
What about the second part of that?

If a mage can bring down $500K/year doing mostly safe stuff, why would any mage (outside of the very few who are so hunted that they can't get one of those jobs with a fake SIN, or who hate some corp so much that they put all their effort into a war on it) ever shadowrun?
emo samurai
Maybe they get more karma if they run; they'll just have less access to magical groups and stuff.
Kanada Ten
Same reasons anyone does, but the biggest one first:

Freedom / Independence - Live free and die free or maybe just pick the jobs you do. (Examples: Mages)

Exoneration - Perhaps it's to escape personal guilt or just a guilty charge... (Examples: The Fugitive, Cane, The Shadow)

Status Quo - "I've always been a criminal, my father was a criminal, and his father was a criminal." (Examples: George W. Bush, The Kennedys, Gotti)

Fulfillment - "Killing is the only thing I know how to do." (Examples: Batman, Art Danthwalker)

Excitement - "The only time I feel alive." (Examples: Hatchetman, Brock Sampson, Hackers)

Dissociation - Whether the person is lost in a Shadowrunner Sim or programmed by p'fix, they run by design. "The chips made me do it!" (Examples: Cyberzombies, Meat Puppets)

Recognition - "I am the best!" (Examples: The Black Archer, Kane, The Gingerbread Man)

Revenge - "They killed my wife, and now they will pay."

Pure Monetary Gain - "When I get the big one, I'll be set for life."
emo samurai
There's been talk about how if you start an orihalcum factory, you'll be the target of runners and stuff. But the thing is, Knight Errant security costs, like, nuyen.gif 1500 a week, and that's under SR2 rules, where cyberarms were nuyen.gif 100,000. If you make 4 units of orihalcum a month, and that's if you don't use karma pool, you can pay a whole fucking platoon to protect you. On an aircraft carrier. So mages should have money coming not only out of their asses, but out of their noses , mouths, and ears, too.
Kanada Ten
Exactly, there's never been a really good reason to run for money if you're a mage. Even hackers could make money hand over fist just writing programs.
emo samurai
Which is why you should pay your players a shitload of money; shadowrunners are supposed to be brilliant, rich criminals, the height of the underworld food chain.
James McMurray
Well, except for the brutish, stupid, bottom-feeding shadowrunners of course. smile.gif
Kanada Ten
QUOTE (emo samurai)
Which is why you should pay your players a shitload of money; shadowrunners are supposed to be brilliant, rich criminals, the height of the underworld food chain.

I'm not paying my players anything.
emo samurai
I should kill you for that, but I have to wait until they invent Black Hammer. But really, if they're Ocean's 11-level, they should make a shitload of money. If not, they can't buy the nice stuff that they publish whole books to show you.
FanGirl
QUOTE (emo samurai @ May 4 2006, 09:50 PM)
Which is why you should pay your players a shitload of money; shadowrunners are supposed to be brilliant, rich criminals, the height of the underworld food chain.

Sweet! I'm gonna get me a solid-gold house and a chocolate-covered pony! biggrin.gif
Big D
You should have the cash to spare, too... I imagine all of your major "purchases" for some time will be initiation, sp^H^H CFs, and resonance.

Per the Agent thread, though, I'd recommend splurging on a commlink with a horde of Agent Smiths as your backup posse.
Apathy
QUOTE (Big D)
If a mage can get filthy rich doing safe stuff, why would mages work security, much less shadowrun?

For that matter, why would talismongers sit behind a shop counter when they could be out making a fortune?

This is actually a really common question on these boards.
"why should my low-level starting rigger go on a shadowrun for 5-10K, when he can make more that that jacking cars?"
"why should my mage ever run at all, if he can make 10x as much money making orachalcum (sp?)"
I think a fair amount of that has to be chaulked up to suspension of disbelief. Either that, or you're running because of something other than money (adventure, revenge, fear, etc.)
emo samurai
Did they call them agents just because of "The Matrix"?

I think they should allow payscales that transcend the norm; that's really the only rational reason for people to engage in high-risk corporate espionage. They aren't really even doing good; they're just profiteering, which is what they should be accomplishing if the GM is intelligent.
mfb
or just do the simple thing and say your mage can't get a work permit for that sort of thing. i'd be highly surprised if mages were allowed to go around putting up wards willy-nilly without some sort of certification. and i can't see the certification being all that easy to acquire for mages who don't sign a contract to work for the entity supplying that certification.
emo samurai
NO!! THEY MUST POWERGAME!!! mad.gif biggrin.gif
emo samurai
QUOTE (FanGirl)
QUOTE (emo samurai @ May 4 2006, 09:50 PM)
Which is why you should pay your players a shitload of money; shadowrunners are supposed to be brilliant, rich criminals, the height of the underworld food chain.

Sweet! I'm gonna get me a solid-gold house and a chocolate-covered pony! biggrin.gif

YES.
James McMurray
QUOTE (emo samurai)
QUOTE (FanGirl @ May 4 2006, 10:30 PM)
QUOTE (emo samurai @ May 4 2006, 09:50 PM)
Which is why you should pay your players a shitload of money; shadowrunners are supposed to be brilliant, rich criminals, the height of the underworld food chain.

Sweet! I'm gonna get me a solid-gold house and a chocolate-covered pony! biggrin.gif

YES.

It looks like she has been reading the campaign thread. How else would she have known about the pony? smile.gif
emo samurai
The ULTRA-pony that breathes fire and summons ninjas from the metaplane of AWESOME.
Kremlin KOA
I thought we were gonna have thhe pony summon Clones of the Dread Pirate Wesley
emo samurai
They were stabbed by ninjas.

All of them.
Kremlin KOA
But Wesley is a Ninja-Pirate
emo samurai
That's why they stabbed him; he had turned to the other side.
Kremlin KOA
But he was a pirate before he was ninja, go wathc Princess Bride

Oh and I guess no
Space Pirate, Ninja, Amazon, Catgirls in your campaign?
Aaron
QUOTE (emo samurai)
Did they call them agents just because of "The Matrix"?

It's a bit off-topic, but no. The term has referred to a program capable of making its own decisions and given a specific task for a long time. Spiders (the real-life, modern, Web-crawling kind) are agents.
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