How does it work in Shadowrun society? I remember in Transmetropolitan there being lots of churches, one being born every minute, being set up to take money from the stupid and the tired. They would set up on street corners and conventions and preach.

Is it much the same in Shadowrun? I would think that with both science and magic coming back into the world, not very much outside of shamanic traditions and other magic-oriented traditions would do very well. After all, most of the religions in America disavow any sort of magic, deeming it "the devils work" or some shit like that. I would think that God would seem rather irrelevent after the goblinization, UGE, fireballs, AI's, etc. Is Seattle spirituality dominated by said shamanic and hermetic traditions, and how do religions recruit in the Barrens? I would think if they did the "street shrine" thing from Transmet, they would get mugged and shot after they'd collected a few hundred nuyen from the credulous.

There is a lot of stuff in different books. Islam is getting more unified. Most Christians are under Rome. hinduism, NAN and Shinto are just fine because their beliefs are now really clicking.

Yeah, those last religions are okay with the idea of spirits and magic and stuff. I'd imagine Islam getting more unified because of its constant, obvious threat from S-K and the other megacorps. Is it getting more tolerant, or fearful?

And is religion really there in the sprawl, or is it limited to individual gangs?

Which society?

Religion is still present in the sixth world. Each religion has decided to embrace magic but explain it in different ways.

If you are looking for recruitment methods, read universal brotherhood.

Religion has not been a major focus in NA I guess because it is a touchy subject. In south america, the old mayan rites have surfaced, and in Europe druidic magic is stronger because of sites like Stone Henge.

Read the chapter on magic in whatever BBB you are using. It gives you some insight into how society deals with magic.

islam is in mid schism right now
the Islamic Unity Movement
vs the New Islamic Jyhad

The first wasFounded by Ib Eisa
the second b the master Shedim that possessed the Late Ibn Eisa

There is a bit of a write up of this in MiTS, mostly dealing with how various religions deal with magic. I don't have it in front of me, but from what I recall most major religions eventualy decided that magic is part of God's creation and can be practiced within certain guidelines appropriate to each religion. SoE also goes more into religion and (European) society, with the Catholic church being very important in Spain, France and Italy, and Druidic orders being important in the British Isles.

I don't agree that goblinization, etc that came with the return of magic is making religion obsolete. What does religion give people in return for their money? It must give something of value. There are just to many people practicing religions of many kinds for them all to be worthless to their practicioners. Remember the most religious countries around are poor countries. Religion gives people hope. The peope who need more hope the most are the poor. What you have to decide for your game is whether a god like the god of the Hebrews, Moslems and Christians exists in your game? Was the universe created by a god or did the universe come in to being by accident? Is this same god known by many names? Maybe the Great Spirit is actually a manifestation of the god of the Hebrews, Moslems and Christians. My character is a Catholic priest. Not a parish priest but a member of an order that deals with magical threats and problems. The order provides next to no resources so my character has to be self supporting hence the occasional nonaltruistic run.

I heard the Pope said that spellcasting was okay, as long as you used only the favored weapon of your deity. (D&D joke) Spirits were touchy, since it was pretty much somebody creating a sentient being out of fire and water.

I won't be having a god in my game; life in general for my game is something that springs up sponatenously when the conditions are right. Religions for me are either ways for people to band together for spiritual health or spiritual protection rackets threatening violence on people's very souls if they don't convert. Note that these two are not in any way mutually exclusive.

In my game, mostly the religions that can deal with the idea of imperfect spiritual beings and people themselves having spiritual power are the ones gaining in prominence, and the ones that don't are either brought closer together through oppression or being slowly phased out.

Are there any street preachers who aren't shamans that can torch a mugger with his hands? Like, just crazy schizophrenic people with a placard, a can for money and a few feathers to give him credibility?

Pope John XXV released an encyclical called "In Imago Dei" in 2024 that established the Catholic doctrine on metahumanity and magic. There's also a link on that page that leads to the Sixth World Wiki entry on the Order of St. Sylvester, which is devoted to "investigat[ing] magical phenomena."

Canon doesn't have a lot on religion because, like curse words and sex, it's a taboo subject. That said, there is absolutely no reason religion should have died off. Those religions that are directly contradicted by the observable facts of the day will have to reinvent themselves or disappear (see also: Seventh Day Adventists), and those that choose to scorn or avoid these new things will survive, but may suffer for their decision and will largely disappear from sight (see also: Amish). In the face of such tremendous signs, many new religions will form up to explain things. Some of these will be very dangerous (see also: Heaven's Gate), and they will come and go, but others will simply linger and make headlines (see also: Raelians). But ultimately the big old religions will continue to do there thing, and there will likely be a strong religious revival towards these older religions (see also: any major crisis in history). The older religions may decide to change somewhat to adapt to the times (although they may be very slow about this, depending on their culture and complexity), and their speed will have major effects on their image and number of followers (see also: Vatican II).

So yes Virginia, there is religion. It is very real and very alive, even though it has necessarily been skipped over. The need for religion will only have grown as the rate of weird sh*t goes up and education levels go down, as life becomes more dangerous and people have more concerns about the possibility of imminent death. I expect you'll still regularly see churches, crucifixes and all the normal signs of religion. The simple question is which religions will be more popular with which demographics.

All religion is a Shadowrun context would be weak and pointless without any obvious Power to back it up. I'd think many people would end up worshipping Idols and Totems.

ALL HAIL DRAGON MUAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA!!!

Like I said, after centuries of empty posturing from the mainstream religions, along comes totems and spirits and older, more repressed traditions that actually have physical proof of their existence and end up telling people things about themselves.

Like Terry Pratchett himself said, priests hate witches and wizards because they focus on making life good while you live it rather than after.

Recommended reading on Religions in SR :
Target: Smuggler Havens (Voodoo)
Threats 2 (from what I've seen the Templars are right up Emo's alley)
Sprawl Survival Guide (religion and everyday life)
Shadows of Europe (Christianity, the Catholic Schism, Neo-Paganism, Islam and Orthodox Christianity mentioned in passing)
SOTA64 (as relates to how certain religions and magic traditions are related)
Loose Alliances (Religious-aligned organizations and their agendas: Vigilia Evangelica, IUM and NIJ)
Shadows of Asia (lots of Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Shinto, Islamic shamanism, and other oddities)

Yes, but they wouldn't be 'miracles' if you see it every day on the trid, and the atheist thaumaturgy professor can do the same thing.

Most of the copy says magic is not that common. In fact it does not show up on Trid. They have to use F/X for that.

And people are unlikely to come into contact with the atheist thamaturgy professor unless they themselves are mages, who, again, are rare.
EDIT: By contrast, most mundanes are much more likely to come into contact with the friendly neighborhood Awakened priest.

Emo, also, there is the personal interpretation.

Religions can be rebelious, liberating, empowering and all.

Sota64 I think has a section that mentions Wicca is the 4th largest religion. Though it's not as unified within itself, as there are a buncha different sects(?)

I'd think that religion in general would lose a lot of credibility because of how magic can conform to any number of religious traditions based on the beliefs of the caster. Right away that is suggesting to me that magic is powered by the subconscious mind rather than actual dieties.

Eh, then again, I guess a lot of people will always have the psychological need to believe in a religion. I think religion would always be there but that there would be even more skeptics than there are today.

What'd he say about Christianity?

And you haven't removed that sig by now? Are you eager for a petty-ass sig war or something?

I'm so confused.

Yeah, will you please explain? The power of Christ compels you!

Nisarg is a guy with a blog (www.xanga.com/rpgpundit) who occasionally accuses Steve Kenson of being too ideologically driven in his game writing.

"Theory-Swine?" That describes, like, a lot of people here before the purge. That might describe a lot of people now. I love it, but I hate D20.

What does he do? I don't know the RPGnet people.

just hop over there and read. He bashes companies and people. Everyday he posts a huge rant on whoever gets in his crosshairs.

Who are these Lawn-Crappers he talks about? I remember one kid from my first game of D&D who would always go "IWANNAKNOCKDOWNTHATDOORLETMELETMELETMELETMEI'MTHEFIGHTERIWANNAKNOCKDOWNTHAT DOOR!" and for the longest time I could not think about the game because I wanted to punch him in the face so much. Is he a Lawn-Crapper? Am I?

Is a person who takes his model-painting WAY too seriously a lawn-crapper, too? And does this include excessive, glibly treated violence in your games? ("The flesh-form explodes and a few drops of insect-fluid and blood land on your face. It burns.") If so, I am a lawn diarrheaist.

Emo, you're not a lawn-crapper because you don't hit on me. Sure, you've shown that you can do a good Creepy Stalker Whisper, but that's only when you're playing your NPCs, and not when speaking to my PC.

I think FG has caught t3h correct regarding Nisarg's ideology.

Nor do I smell bad. I hope.

Magic could be either a boost or a hindrance to a religion. On the one hand, you can claim to be doing "real" miracles. On the other hand, people can point out that so can an agnostic hermetic mage, and that your holy minion from the spirit world just got its ass kicked by the aforementioned hermetic mage's fire elemental.

Also, the traditional religions won't be the only ones doing some soul searching on whether awakened people are really performing religious miracles, or just people with a genetic gift. Think about how it could affect a true believer in wicca, if that obnoxious, crystal-waving, brain-dead wiccan poser can suddenly start astrally projecting, summoning spirits, and healing people, while he can't do anything, despite being a much more spiritually mature person, with a much better understanding of wicca.

Christianity, even if you accept that a lot of denominations have gone back to the Catholic Church (which, in my opinion, is very implausible), consists of many different sects, and the awakening will probably bring about more - from armageddon cults to resurgences of things like gnosticism. You will have a mix of charismatic and cultlike churches with a shamanic approach (spirits looking like angels, spells being "miracles", etc.), and more mainstream denominations with a hermetic approach, where magical ability may be seen as a divine gift, but only in the same way that being good at sports is a gift. And there could be a lot of tension between the two.

It's your campaign, Emo, but if I were to make one suggestion, it would be this - don't impose your own views too strongly, but instead, make it like politics. A million people with a million different positions, and some of them may be more right or reasoned than others, but the trick is hearing them over the background noise of everyone else. If you just stick it into one category, you miss all of the complexity, and all of the ways it adds nice juicy complications to a campaign.

Well, some Christian philosophers feel that belief in miracles is sort of missing the point. Some even take this to the extreme that belief in the divinity of Christ is not required to be a Christian and that such belief mmay be detrimental to one's faith.

Literalist interpertations of the bible are easily disproven and miracles are easily explained so faith that relies on the truth of these things is really fragile and can't actually be called faith at all. Instead one should accept the philosophy while taking all of the flat-eath crap in the context that it was written and understanding that it is mostly metaphor and sometimes mistake.

A person can accept Christianity while understanding that Jesus wasn't actually the King of the Jews but just the enlightened kid of a girl who got knowcked up and needed a creative excuse to tell her fiance just as a person can accept Rock & Roll while understanding that Elvis was not literally a monarch.

This Nisarg sounds like a buffoon. Granted I haven't read anything he has done, but if WR's post is indicative of his entire body of work, I should say that it isn't necessary. If I wanted silly generalizations about RPGers, I would read Jack Chick.

I suspect that such an individual would accept the hermetic view. The point of such a philosophical standpoint is to strengthen the Chrisitian faith in the face of science by accepting that there may not be any tangible difference between the miraculous and the mundane instead of taking the fundamentalist aproach and sticking one's fingers in one's ears and screaming "la-la-la" while hoping that science will go away and at the same time preventing interfaith discourse and recruitment from turning into a God's-penis-measuring contest.

Note that most organized religions in the Sixth World distinguish between magic (one of the natural forces of the universe) and miracle (divine). For instance, the Catholic Church (and much of Christianity) does not view magic as inherently good or evil, but rather as a neutral force of nature. Where exactly they draw the line varies, but it does solve a number of issues that have been brought up here. A Catholic priest using magic is not performing miracles (and he's in for big trouble if he says he is because that's the territory of sainthood) - this is why the Sylvestrines are charged with investigating situations which might be instances of magic or miracle.

Oriental religions have a slight edge when it comes to accepting the Awakening because magic is already integral to their worldviews (sort of like Wicca) and part of their cosmologies.