Our group is confused about the "for all other purposes...the full Magic attribute is used" descriptions (SR4, p.186-187).
Take an example at chargen:
• Buy Magic 6
• Buy bio/cyber 1 essence (reduces magic attribute to 5)
• Buy 4 points of adept powers
• Use remaining 1 point for magic-based skills
I understand that you only add 1 magic dice to your spellcasting skill test initially. But, you are still considered magic attribute 5 for all other purposes. So, is the threshold for overcasting 1 or 5? Is the maximum force spell you can cast force 2 or force 10? Based on the book, it seems to me that overcasting threshold is 5 and maximum force is 10. Is that correct?
Full Version: Mystic adept magic confusion
It's force 1 spells for you then, force 2 if you overcast.
The rules even mention something somewhere that can be read this way
.
For determining the max rating of your adept powers, for example, you would use your actual magic rating, 5 in your example.
The rules even mention something somewhere that can be read this way
.For determining the max rating of your adept powers, for example, you would use your actual magic rating, 5 in your example.
I am unsure whether it is mentioned in the book, but my group agrees with Butterblume. Our mystic adept has arranged himself with it.
Handling it differently not only sounds, but is horribly wrong.
By the way, if you want to store some spells at considerable force levels in sustaining foci, you can just summon spirits of men at your maximum possible force and let them cast the desired spell of you at an efficient force of your magic x 4. Very interesting for mystic adepts with 1 or 2 points in "magic".
Handling it differently not only sounds, but is horribly wrong.
By the way, if you want to store some spells at considerable force levels in sustaining foci, you can just summon spirits of men at your maximum possible force and let them cast the desired spell of you at an efficient force of your magic x 4. Very interesting for mystic adepts with 1 or 2 points in "magic".
| QUOTE (Butterblume @ May 16 2006, 02:56 PM) |
| It's force 1 spells for you then, force 2 if you overcast. The rules even mention something somewhere that can be read this way .For determining the max rating of your adept powers, for example, you would use your actual magic rating, 5 in your example. |
Could you please point me to that page?
In the example given (SR4, p.187), the mystic adept had magic attribute 4, spent 1 on adept powers, and had 3 left dedicated to magic skills. It says, "When using her magic-linked dice pools, such as spellcasting or summoning" she gets 3 dice. However, "For all other uses, her Magic attribute counts as its full value of 4." They were specific to say magic-linked dice pools, and then say for all other purposes, use full magic attribute. To me, that is the initial roll, and has nothing to do with max force or overcasting threshold.
Said another way....
(SR4, p.187) Adept Powers: "The Maximum level an adept may have in any power is equal to the adept's Magic attribute"
(SR4, p.173) Step 2: Choose the Force: "The maximum Force a spell can be cast at equals the spellcaster's Magic rating x 2. Casting a spell with a Force that exceeds the magician's Magic rating is considered dangerous overcasting."
Other than the use of "rating" vs. "attribute", these both sound the same concept to me... max force spell, overcasting, and max level adept power are all tied to full magic attribute.
| QUOTE (mrcatman) |
| In the example given (SR4, p.187), the mystic adept had magic attribute 4, spent 1 on adept powers, and had 3 left dedicated to magic skills. It says, "When using her magic-linked dice pools, such as spellcasting or summoning" she gets 3 dice. |
When you quoted right, that would probably be the part I was refering to
.This sentence says, you have 3 points dedicated for magic skills (like casting). Therefore you can cast force 3 spells, and up to force 6 with overcasting.
Somewhere on this forum Rob Boyle is quoted, who said it is this way
.| QUOTE (UndeadPoet) |
| By the way, if you want to store some spells at considerable force levels in sustaining foci, you can just summon spirits of men at your maximum possible force and let them cast the desired spell of you at an efficient force of your magic x 4. Very interesting for mystic adepts with 1 or 2 points in "magic". |
I was under the impression that sustaining foci were bound to the person doing the casting. Since your sustaining foci are bound to you, and not to the spirit, I don't understand how the spirit can cast "into" your sustaining foci.
I was also under the impression that the force of the spell you were going to put into a sustaining foci was limited by the rating of the sustaining foci. Most casters are capable of maxing out their own sustaining foci (although in some cases it may require overcasting)... the 2 point mystic adept whipping up a force 4 spirit to throw a force 8 Armor spell into his foci (assuming you could get around it being bound to the adept, not the spirit) would still cap out at the max rating of the sustaining foci.
| QUOTE (Butterblume @ May 16 2006, 03:44 PM) |
| This sentence says, you have 3 points dedicated for magic skills (like casting). Therefore you can cast force 3 spells, and up to force 6 with overcasting. |
Actually, it does not say that.
It says you have 3 points dedicated to a DICE POOL for magic skills. It does not say it limits your force or overcasting.
Here's the full quote:
"Roxanne is a mystic adept with a Magic attribute of 4. She spends 1 point of Magic for 1 Power Point, which she uses to purchase four levels of Rapid Healing. Her other 3 points of Magic are dedicated to Magic skills. When using her Magic-linked dice pools, such as Spellcasting or Summoning, she will be able to allocate 3 dice for Magic (since the other is tied up in her adept powers). For all other uses, her Magic attribute counts as its full value of 4."
It is only talking about dice pools and number of dice contributed from magic. It it no way says the portion of your attribute assigned to spells (non-adept stuff) reduces your max force or overcasting. In fact, it says for all other uses (other than the example of allocating 3 dice for Magic for dice pools) uses the full magic attribute.
Like i said, you can read it the way i wrote. The reason to read it that way, is that Rob Boyle said it was meant to be read that way.
Now, it would be nice if this would be clarified in the errata... after all, an email published on dumpshock forum is hardly canon.
Now, it would be nice if this would be clarified in the errata... after all, an email published on dumpshock forum is hardly canon.
| QUOTE (Butterblume) |
| Like i said, you can read it the way i wrote. The reason to read it that way, is that Rob Boyle said it was meant to be read that way. Now, it would be nice if this would be clarified in the errata... after all, an email published on dumpshock forum is hardly canon. |
If you can provide a link to that Rob Boyle quote, that would extremely helpful. Thanks.
| QUOTE |
| "---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Shadowrun Info <info@shadowrunrpg.com> Date: Nov 6, 2005 10:45 PM Subject: Re: Shadowrun 4th edition question To: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxx.com [cut out some introductory crap, on to the meat] >question I have, though, is about Mystic adept in general - Since they can >split their spell pool and everything things can get complicated. there is >a paragraph on the second page of the mystic adept section that says that >For All purposes, including the limits of Adept powers, the mystic adept >counts as his max magic. so if he's spent 4 points on Adept abilities, and >only 2 on casting, does that mean he can Force 6 spells without flinching? [cut out more background info crap, non-essential] I'm not sure what you mean about splitting the spell pool ... Nope, basically the Magic he has allocated towards magician skills counts for all aspects of those skills. So in your example, the max Force he can cast at is 4, and anything over Force 2 is Physical Drain. :: Rob Boyle :: Shadowrun Developer for FanPro LLC info@shadowrunrpg.com ~ www.shadowrunrpg.com" |
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Just when i have found it, Kanada Ten beats me
It's the specialization. You'd beat me on Google.
i dunno. +2 dice doesn't seem like much of an advantage. or are you using SR3 rules?
Hey, +2 is huge when you use reroll.
but then you don't have any Edge left for important things, like your design for a device that allows you to stab people over the internet.
what about Geasa's in 4th edition I understand it comes from 3rd edition but it says to reference magic in the shadows for some other things, so are they transferable?
that would help out when getting cyber gear and such(my GM still goes by the loss of magic table when you take to much damage)
that would help out when getting cyber gear and such(my GM still goes by the loss of magic table when you take to much damage)
| QUOTE (Kanada Ten @ May 16 2006, 10:49 PM) | ||
http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=10740
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This is how i've been playing it.
It falls in line with SR3 and 2 rules and just makes more sense overall.
Incidently it's much less munchkinly this way too.
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