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Loestal
I was wondering, how is cyberware handled in say, max sercurity prisons. Say if an inmate has cyber eyes...what do they do? Surely they don't remove the eyes. Would they just leave them be? Obviously there would probably be no wi-fi connections to the Matrix in the area. But say cyber arms and spurs. Do they remove them, or just leave them in? This is going to come into play when I have a party of mine attempt a prison break. Any info would help.
Kanada Ten
Some cyberware they remove (spurs, cyberguns, anything with an F code), some cyber is simply disabled and requires surgery to fix. Some things, say cybereyes, could have IC loaded onto them to prevent access of high end functions. Cyberarms could be removed and replaced with cyberprosthetics, if they posed a threat.

Some max prisons are also built in mana dead zones, as well, though these are usually reserved (is that a pun?) for magicians and adepts.
hyzmarca
And lets not forget virtual prisions. Who needs guards when you can just hook everyone up to a UV host and feed them slop through a tube.
Glayvin34
I haven't noticed anything in the SR4 book, but you could install programs to reduce cyberlimbs to have physical stats of 1, spurs can't extend, that kind of thing. Or Kanada's removal of weapon systems, I bet that takes 5 minutes. Then back it up with serious encryption and passcodes, Data Bombs and Kink Bombs.
From page 331, in Headware, note the final sentence:
QUOTE (The Bible)
Cranial Bombs: An illegal method of coercion, cranial bombs are the ultimate headache. Kink bombs are designed to damage only part of the victimís head, either rendering specific headware (or other cyberware) useless or damaging the brain to cause blindness, stuttering, hearing loss, etc. Microbombs are just powerful enough to kill the bearer. Area bombs do the same, but also affect a blast area like either a fragmentation or high-explosive grenade (p. 313). The bombs can be remote- or time-detonated, or even set to discharge by sound recognition. If installed in cyberlimbs, these bombs are designed to destroy specific components (kink), the entire limb (micro), or blast the area (area).
Loestal
All very good and helpful ideas thanks. But it posses a problem. I need for the party to get caught "on camera" inside the prison and was gonna use an inmate using his cyber eyes to take a few pictures and use that to lessen his sentance or something. Although I will admit, I'm not THAT familiar with Lone Star prison systems, or even if Lone Star has prisons. But that was the idea I was gonna go with, but it really doesn't seem that logical now...hmmm..if anyone could give me a hand here I would appreciate it.
Kanada Ten
Makes perfect sense actually. Prisons often have inmates play informant for favors: extra cigarettes, women, drugs, the good work detail, and so on. These can often be life with no parole types, since they have nothing to lose and maybe a transfer to a lower security prison to gain.
Dale
I could have sworn in a shadowrun adventure in a magazine years ago there was an adventure where the pc's had to infiltrate a prison as prisoners and there was the option of getting handblades, etc... implanted from a psycho cybersurgeon in their cell block.
Squinky
What??!! Take away a persons right to use their cybereyes? I'm calling the ACLU...

I could imagine a person with limbs being given cheap plastic ware in place of the sturdier stuff, and you can be sure they are wired right up to a hacker in a control room who can take over them if need be. For that matter, I think most prisons would use prisoner cyber-eyes unknown as surveliance. They may think they had their recording functionality turned off, but someone is looking through their eyes in a control room somewhere...
Kanada Ten
QUOTE (Squinky @ May 17 2006, 10:50 PM)
They may think they had their recording functionality turned off, but someone is looking through their eyes in a control room somewhere...

The problem with that is intruders will be able to detect and disable them as they disable the security. Maybe they do use this method, combined with snitch cells to really keep prisoners more afraid of each other...
Loestal
Hm...well alright then. I guess I'll go with my original idea then. Something else that crossed my mind, what about bioware. There isn't alot they can do about that unless they go thru the surgery which would be expensive for the prison I would imagine. Anyways, thanks alot guys...you've actually helped alot.
James McMurray
I don't know that they'd really do a lot to begin with. I don't picture Shadowrun prisons as places where human dignity and rights is a big concern. Let the guy have his wired reflexes 3. What's the worst he'll do, smack around some other inmates? They're all criminals anyway, and most of them are probably SNIless except for their shiny new criminal SIN. Most prison gaurds would work from a distance via rigged security, sleepy gas in sealed chambers, etc.
Kanada Ten
There is only a few pieces of bioware that would help one escape from prison or increase your threat level: Toxin Extractor and Tracheal Filter (nanite removal), Skin Pocket (stitched up), Bone Density (atrophy drugs to decrease Str) and Muscle Augmentation (atrophy drugs - like they use on trolls).
Loestal
Very true, which is something I considered. But leaving so much hi-tech gear in the hands of criminals would be very risky. I mean hell, look at our prisons now. If a riot breaks out it's very hard to contain and they are using a toothbrush and lighter as weapons. Surely they wouldn't leave certain things just readily accessible.
James McMurray
They might. Most of the high threat prisoners they get will be SINless and/or violent criminals. Keeping SINless violent offenders in prison costs money. Money that corps don't like losing. If a SINless person is killed in a riot there will be nobody to mourn and (more importantly) nobody to sue.

Put the SINned prisoners in a different prison where you do keep an eye on prisoner safety and take pains to ensure dangerous cyberweaponry doesn't get through the gates.
hyzmarca
If I were running a SR4 prision I'd just give the prisioners knock-out drugs, slap 'trodes on them, and shove them into coffin sized lockers in a warehouse somewhere with tubes to feed them and remove their wastes. The UV host they are hooked up to would be modeled after a tropical island and they'll believe that they were banished there. I won't matter what kind of 'ware they have, they won't be able to access it in the real world. It doesn't matter what kind of magic they know. They'll only be able to cast spells in the simulaton. If they try to go to the metaplanes the simulation kicks them back to their bodies. If they are killed the simulation deposits them on another island and leaves a copy of their bodies. And all the while the system is streaming behavior programing and new skillsets directly into their minds. When they get out they'll have experienced several lifetimes away from society in their minds and have an irresistable urge to knit ishould they ever feel any antisocial feelings.

As for keeping violent offenders, prisions usually get paid per head. It is in their best interest to have as many inmates as is possible.
NightHaunter
QUOTE (James McMurray)
They might. Most of the high threat prisoners they get will be SINless and/or violent criminals. Keeping SINless violent offenders in prison costs money. Money that corps don't like losing. If a SINless person is killed in a riot there will be nobody to mourn and (more importantly) nobody to sue.

Put the SINned prisoners in a different prison where you do keep an eye on prisoner safety and take pains to ensure dangerous cyberweaponry doesn't get through the gates.

I would assume that every SINless prisoner would be issued with a brand spanking new SIN. Assuming they were gonna be let out. Just so they could be tracked.
If not, the same amount of resourses would be spent making sure the "Prisoner" disappeared in prison.

I forsee most Cyber getting ripped out or shut down. Maybe even turned right down if that's not possible.
Dangerous Bio would have to be countered (Dismembered with nano's) and mages would have to, at least, wear a magemask.
Adepts and mages could also have their magic literally beaten out of them.
You know how serious injury affects magic users!

That's about it from me for now!

smokin.gif
Smilin_Jack
Check the SOTA64 Sourcebook - I don't imagine much has changed in 7 years. wink.gif

Cyber/Bio Monsters

1. Too expensive to rip out cyberwear or biowear.
2. Disable it by cutting a few wires, or implanting micro bombs set to go off if the 'wear is activated.
3. Datajacks and Chipjacks are fitted with a jackstopper.
4. Use of involuntary simsense 'rehabilitation'.

Mages

1. 24/7 Magemasks
2. 24/7 Simsense
3. 24/7 Hallucinogenic Drugs
4. Hideous background counts in most prisons
5. Manacles that prevent astral movement.


There's an entire section that deals with this in SOTA64, called "In the Joint".

Joining gangs, prison tech, prison dueling rules, etc.
Toptomcat
What about those who express as mages or adepts while on the inside? I imagine they could be pretty huge problems until the guards manage to get them into lockdown- particularly if they're subtle about it, as I'm willing to bet they don't screen formerly non-magical prisinors regularly...
Grinder
A prison probably has mages doing astral patrolling regularly. They will spot new awakened mages/ adepts pretty quickly and deal with them.
Smilin_Jack
SR prisons are fully capable of dealing with riots without endangering a single guard through the use of 'taser-capable floors' (extending from the common areas and into the cells), gas-delivery systems, and drones equiped with stun weaponry.

Prisons are also wired extensively for sound and audio, and most have several astral mages and spirits who patrol.

Toptomcat
QUOTE
A prison probably has mages doing astral patrolling regularly. They will spot new awakened mages/ adepts pretty quickly and deal with them.

Really? I see those capable of astral perception as too much in-demand for a prison to have the resources hire them enough to regularly patrol their non-magical inmates.
Smilin_Jack
Well since its the Security Corps (Lonestar, Knight Errant, etc) that run and own the prisons - and they put the prisoners to work (no license plates - try textile goods, industrial supplies, electronic components, and a lot more besides). The prisoner pays for their own upkeep, and may be allowed to keep a small percentage by the Sec Corp.

The Sec Corp is also payed by the city/country/etc to house the prisoners.

Its big business - and with them housing 'violent' criminals .... they are going to hire mages for security.
Loestal
I would think I would create prisons just for mages, so therefore you can concentrate all your magical effort in one area.
Toptomcat
QUOTE (Smilin_Jack)
Well since its the Security Corps (Lonestar, Knight Errant, etc) that run and own the prisons - and they put the prisoners to work (no license plates - try textile goods, industrial supplies, electronic components, and a lot more besides). The prisoner pays for their own upkeep, and may be allowed to keep a small percentage by the Sec Corp.

The Sec Corp is also payed by the city/country/etc to house the prisoners.

Its big business - and with them housing 'violent' criminals .... they are going to hire mages for security.

They will probably have mages, yes, but the prison mages will be too busy controlling the known Awakened prisinors to give the ones that are 99.9% mundane the old astral once-over.
Smilin_Jack
The do that too.

QUOTE (SOTA 64)
Blackstone Prison, the notorious 'mage prison'. Built about 30 years ago (from 2064) on top of a mana warp found in eastern South Dakota. MCT build the prison spacifically to house the 'dangerously awakened'. Blackstones mana warp seems to induce a range of emotional effects from depression to catatonia, making for a docile population.
Smilin_Jack
QUOTE (Toptomcat)
They will probably have mages, yes, but the prison mages will be too busy controlling the known Awakened prisinors to give the ones that are 99.9% mundane the old astral once-over.

No mention of that in the SOTA 64 book, just mentions that the Security Corps are smart enough to have mages and spirits patroling the astral of the prisions. wink.gif

Shrike30
I'm pretty sure they'd be patrolling the whole prison, since they're supposed to prevent breakins as well as breakouts.

The thought of putting several hundred mages in the same place is too great of a security risk without having something like Blackstone's mana warp to make it okay. I imagine most prisons might have an "awakened block," but that's about it.
Grinder
We talked about fresh/ new awakened prisoners, which won't be able to mask their aura - easy to spot for a patrolling mage. But if it takes too long to find the new mages, they can cause trouble and in the end financial damage (by destroying equipment or injuring wardens) which is not good for the bottom line of the SecCorp. Having a mage on regularly astral patrol is much cheaper then.

ROM rat
Ok I read last night in one of the Shadowrun books that to handle mages they use
3 different tactics.

1. Dope them up to the point of being unable to function.
2. Use a white noise generator/visual mask with mouth gag on the mage 24/7.
3. Lobotomy. but since they don't exactly now what part of the brain controls the use of magic they just poke around your brain like a monkey with a stick.

most mages die within the first year of prison because of this. The lucky ones are given to corps to serve there time as a wage slave. Not all are given cushy jobs thou, allot are used to experiment on.



As far as any cyberware that would be used to escape you can handle it 2 ways,
Shut it off or remove it. It would cost more to remove it and since the crops are all about bottom line most would go the route of just disabling the items. There could be a prison or two that removes said cyberware and resells the items though.


I don't think just druging everyone and feeding them with tubes would work. Yes it's corp owned and they don't care what happens to you. But there would be all kinds of human and meta groups watching the prisons and making a stink on the trid if anything to crazy was going on.

I am thinking more of a prison like the one in the movie Face off, magnet boots on everyone so when anything happens just lock everyone to the floor. Or of course an island that is a prison onto itself just like the movie no Escape.



BUT since I am running in your campaign may I suggest a prison made of Candy.
Now now hear me out. Walls of gingerbread, Cotton candy floors, Inside no cameras but lots of free weapon vending machines. Just a thought.


Loestal
QUOTE (ROM rat)
BUT since I am running in your campaign may I suggest a prison made of Candy.
Now now hear me out. Walls of gingerbread, Cotton candy floors, Inside no cameras but lots of free weapon vending machines. Just a thought.

hahaha....awesome. I like the floor face off idea alot actually.
Kanada Ten
You know, they can permanently install personality fix chips... Perhaps this is a very happy prison. All the inmates smile, their are no cells, no electric fences... We all are just content to work in our gardens and read our books. Leave? I could never leave my friends, my home. Unhand me you brute! Guards! Guards! *Inmates all rush to help*
Geekkake
QUOTE (Kanada Ten)
You know, they can permanently install personality fix chips... Perhaps this is a very happy prison. All the inmates smile, their are no cells, no electric fences... We all are just content to work in our gardens and read our books. Leave? I could never leave my friends, my home. Unhand me you brute! Guards! Guards! *Inmates all rush to help*

You're hired.
Kanada Ten
I suppose we should mention that: if this happy prison is run by Ares, then you should run away. Run screaming like a bunch of little girls from a huanted house. Run until you fall over from exhaustion and then crawl.
[ Spoiler ]
Loestal
Hell..if your gonna go that far with the happy prison why not just submit them to a corp., brain wash them and cyber them out as new wave super soldiers and sell em off.
Kanada Ten
Not to go off on a huge tangent, but those kept in supermax prisons in SR won't be combat monsters one and all. These are mostly those like political figures and heads of crime families, who's execution would create massive backlash - or those that have worked out some kind of Judas deal. I don't see Jon Gotti making a great super soldier for example.

Though, having the prisoners be their own guards is deliciously efficient.

[e] I just realized how hard it will be to put a technomancer in prison, not even mentioning keeping them there... Dungeons are going to make a comeback!
Nasrudith
You actually could keep a technomancer in prision easily with just a jammer inside their cell. Raiting 10.
Edit: Fixed spelling.
Divine Virus
QUOTE (Nasrudith)
You actually could keep a technomacner in prision easily with just a jammer inside their cell. Raiting 10.

Your underestimating TMs there. that will keep maybe resonace 1-3 TMs in, but higher then that and they should be able to, with enough time, thread a ECCM high enough to kick out override the jammer long enough to do somthing. If he was smart he would go into full submersion (he would sorta be in limbo though) and register a crack spirte and a fault sprite with an ungodly high rating( again, this takes time but he has time), then ECCM the jammer, then release both the crack and the machine sprites into the jail's system, with instructions to get you the hell out
Nasrudith
Oh yeah, forgot about the improvisation abilites of TMs. Put him in a dead zone with mechanical locks, and cameras. They're powerless without technology.
KB12
Or just coat the technomancer's room with the wi-fi blocking paint, that is mentioned in the book a few times, and then hardwire any electronics that are necessary, use mechanical locks too, as mentioned above. If there is any chance of the wi-fi paint begin scraped then put it a layer or two into the walls, so it can't be readily removed.

One other point to keep in mind is the book seemed to indicate that technomancers are still very new and not understood or even known of by many. For this reason many prisons may not even know that they have technomancer prisoners or know what to do with them if they do.
Aaron
Two words: Faraday Cage.
hyzmarca
QUOTE (Divine Virus)
QUOTE (Nasrudith @ May 20 2006, 01:13 PM)
You actually could keep a technomacner in prision easily with just a jammer inside their cell. Raiting 10.

Your underestimating TMs there. that will keep maybe resonace 1-3 TMs in, but higher then that and they should be able to, with enough time, thread a ECCM high enough to kick out override the jammer long enough to do somthing. If he was smart he would go into full submersion (he would sorta be in limbo though) and register a crack spirte and a fault sprite with an ungodly high rating( again, this takes time but he has time), then ECCM the jammer, then release both the crack and the machine sprites into the jail's system, with instructions to get you the hell out

This, of course, assumes that the jail has a system. A long time ago we had these things called mechanical locks. They worked wonders.

It also assumes that the the technomancer isn't already in the system but powerless to do anything because he isn't aware of the fact that he is in the system. With comlinks ubiquitous and hacking prevelant only an idiot would use any computer systems in a prison. There is difficulty keeping cellphones out of prisions today. Imagine how much trouble there would be if a cell phoone could be used to open all the doors and kill all the guards.




We don't know exactly how far technomancer powers go inside a perfect simulation like the one from Dry Run. Maybe such a simulation would be easy for a technomancer to crack. Maybe it would be just as impossible for a technomancer as it was for an otaku.
Voran
Sota 64 touched on this some, and I'd wonder how many high cyber types, or magic types actually end up in prison for more than a brief period of time. Prisons, being pretty much a business, especially if run by corps or whatever, would probably filter their new arrivals as 1)potential employee or 2)potential test subject. Letting a criminal with a load of cyber sit there and rot, as opposed to using them as a very willing hireling, seems odd to me. Given the supposed rarity of mages, I'd say its actually rare they'd want to waste a mage in a prison where they're almost always going to go nuts due to background counts.

I mean, if some dude comes to the prison with a million something nuyen of cybergear, its likely he knows how to USE that million something nuyen of cybergear, and would make a better potential asset (even disposable, with a nice cranium bomb) than sitting around in a prison.
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