When a mage is sustaining a spell, the GM has the option of making them roll to keep sustaining when their concentration is broken, e.g. when they take damage (see step 7, p174 of the rulebook).

Do you think that the mage's player should still have to roll if they have had the mage cast the sustained spell through a sustaining focus?

The reason I ask is that there is a mage in the group I run and he likes to cast invisibility through a sustaining focus. I know that there are lots of ways around invis and also that the spell could be dispelled by another mage (or whatever) etc. I liked the fact that if he was sustaining the spell himself and was unlucky enough to get seen and shot, the spell might fail, but this doesn't appear to be the case when casting through a sus-focus as it is doing the work for him.

My preferred option at the moment is to say that although the sus-focus takes away the need to concentrate on the spell to sustain it, it is still the mage that is actually responsible for keeping it going and if he gets shot, he will have to roll for concentration.

What do you all think?

-edited for clarity-

To my mind, the whole point of a sustaining focus is that it does all the work for the spellcaster once the spell is actually cast. No need to roll to sustain it, even when distracted by those irritating bullet wounds. The nuyen cost, karma bonding and astral vulnerability all nicely offset this tremendous advantage.

Of course, if you want to be teh evil, you could rule that it will sustain the spell if the mage in question is knocked unconscious through damage. Their chummers would have a hard time administering first aid if they can't even find the poor slot.

That's a take that I hadn't considered before. I can see some potential benefits in balancing out magic a bit, and it's a believeable explanation. I guess it just comes down to how badly you think magic is being abused in your game whether or not you implement it. Of course there are some other options to keep mages from running around with tons of sustained spells up constantly, wards and astral patrols being the most common.

Hummm.

Can anyone confirm that consciousness is not a requirement for having an active focus?

The rules don't list any such requirement.

In fact, it doesn't even state that the focus deactivate on the magician's death ... but that should probably better be discussed after the release of the magic book .

So does that mean an alarmclock is required for activating a focus?

I would agree that consciousness is irrelevant. I would suggest, however, that death would end the spell. My argument is thus: A mage casts a spell on Jeff (who may or may not be the mage) Jeff is the subject of the spell, and deals with the spell as the subject should. Jeff dies. Jeff is now not Jeff, but rather a Jeff-shaped chunk of meat, magically speaking. This chunk of meat is not subject to spells in the way that a metahuman is, but rather is now in the realm of object resistance, since chunk of meat is an object. Since the nature of the subject has changed, fundamentally (again, as far as spell targeting is concerned) the spell is no longer valid.
Hmmm, I'm not sure about that, though. Might depend on the type of spell.

Thanks for confirmation.

So, to get the thread back on track...

If the mage was sustaining invis himself and was unlucky enough to get seen and shot, he might, just might lose concentration and drop the spell - which means that a mundane had some way of getting rid of the spell (a good thing I think).

However, with the rules as written, if the mage casts the invis through a sustaining focus, even if he was spotted and shot he doesn't lose the spell - which means that the only way the spell ends is if another awakened being disrupts it and mundanes just have to put up with a permanently invisible mage .

My original question could still use some more replies...

Do you think that the mage should still have to roll for concentration if they get shot but have cast the sustained spell through a sustaining focus?

Waitaminute. Back up the monkey truck a second.

Oh, now I understand you. Yeah, that's pretty accurate, then.
The only thing I'd add is that I would assume that it doesn't take a knowledge skill in magic to know what a sustaining focus is. As long as someone wasn't "6th world unaware", I'd expect that their existance is common knowledge. Recognizing one could be tricky, though, as most people get their magical education from Karl Kombatmage.

Not really anything to do with the RAW one way or the other but I thought I'd throw this out there. Might have gone off topic to boot so apologies.

If invisibility is becoming a serious hassle and you end up having to always throw a mage into the mix to counter it, there are other solutions.

Drones with non-visual but pinpoint accurate ways of targeting someone. Cybernetic eyes with the same.

Or a mystic SOTA advance where some clever labcoat invents a semi-awakened spraypaint that can't be turned invisible. Maybe a modified version of that bacteria that lights up the air around an astrally active entity?

Didn't SOTA64 introduce some aura glassess or camera or something like that? I seem to remember something technological that could vaguely detect auras. Not really astral sight, but maybe enough to indicate where to open fire. The resolution was very crappy, and probably still subject to blind fire modifiers, but at least you'd know where to point the gun.
Wasn't there? Am I making stuff up again?

Kirlean photography is supposed to be able to take pictures of auras. But I'm pretty sure that is only a chemical treatment during the developing stage, not something you could use to pinpoint a character's location right that second.

Pheromone detectors, echo locattion, bio-electric sensors, pressure pads, very and ultra short wavelength radar, and ultra-sound are all options for detecting an invisible mage. In addition circumstances can make the mage stand out. For example set off the fire sprinklers and watch for incongruous drips or dry patches, or Invisibility becomes nearly useless in an active wind tunnel with the smoke streats going. Soft ground can give the mage away too.

What about FAB strain 1 gas grenades?

Not only would a magician not have a chance of losing the spell from his sustaining focus, but if the mage gets knocked out he can't turn it off.

Activating a focus is a Simple Action, deactivating the focus is a Free Action. But having the sustaing focus continue sustaing the spell is no action. (Page 191)

Unconcious characters can take no action.

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A spell sustained by a sustaining focus can be ended four ways:

• Remove the focus from the magician (this includes removinng the magician from the focus by killing the mage).
• Disrupt the spell.
• Destroy the Focus itself.
• The magician can take a voluntary action to deactivate the focus.

Until Street Magic comes out, that's it. But you can bet good money that they'll add a fifth way for strong mana warps. Taking an active sustaining focus on a sub orbital trip is going to shut your focus down as well.

-Frank

I would say that death of the subject would end the spell, as spells are cast by syncing them up with the target's aura. When the target dies there is no longer an aura to sync up to.

It's really a pain in the ass to get a high enough rating focus to put Improved Invisibility into it, and have it work against cameras, RFID surveillance, and the like. Most of those things count as "Highly Processed Materials," setting the Threshold for managing to decieve them to at least 4. Getting a Rating 4+ sustaining focus isn't possible under the normal character creation rules, and isn't exactly cheap either.