Dumpshock Gang-
I am trying to find out the cost and stats of Ultrasound viosion equipment, both implanted, drone sensor, wall-mounted, hand-held, goggles, Glasses and (dare I say it) contacts! It's not in the book (except for in the eyes of the Bounty Hunter). Does anyone have any ideas? I am sure it will be in one of the upcoming sourcebooks, but That does me little good for the run I am doing next week.

- Lebo77

Turn to page 324 of your hymnal.

Wonderfull. That handles most of my questions. But cybereye ultrasound is still a question. What should the capacity and cost be?

I just kept it the same; lets you put a lot of fab stuff into ware.

Cyberware Ultrasound Sensor is on page 331...it's under headware rather than cybereyes.

Doh!

Thanks for all the help guys. I need to search better.

- Lebo77

Aaron compare that ultrasound detector at work to a hand held camera. About the same size, you can have the camera in your eye in 2070

Edward

It's not that simple. There are wavelength restrictions.

I'm trying to imagine what having an ultrasonic device inside of a cybereye might do to your normal vision, were the ultrasound active as well. I have this image of everything blurring faintly...

I haven't encountered a problem yet, but I'm probably going to disallow ultrasound contacts. If you can't fit it in a cybereye, you damn well can't fit it in something you can wear on a cybereye.

I agree .

I would just call it an external device that can wirelessly transmit its data as display to your contact lenses.

I'm fine with that... it's just an Image Link, then. It's the people who want the entire system to fit IN A CONTACT LENS that I have issue with

Really? I don't think the ads have ever been anything but "DDO Gold supply on Sale" and "Dungeons and Dragons Online"--in that order--for me.

I read somewhere that ultrasound can display as an overlay on your vision, so no blurring. Don't you just love AR?

The blur effect would be caused by the ultrasound emitter's vibrations in your eye. The human eye is sorta like a big grape, only filled with Jell-o instead of fruit. The eye can actually deform a bit without pain or damage, and the ultrasound's vibrations would definitely cause this. Most likely, this would result in the lens jittering or waves in the vitreous humor (eye goop).

Ick, I wonder if prolonged use could actually cause separation of the retina? It sure would suck to be blinded by your vision enhancement.

That'd mostly depend on the magnitude of the vibrations, I think. The blinding headaches you'd get from having your vision blurring very faintly would probably be a bigger issue

I doubt vibration would be a problem with cybereyes.

in SR3, the ultrasound was an eye/ear implant. even then you had a finite amount of space in the eye to work with.

in SR4, its headware. so it goes in your head. the head dosent exactly have THAT much room, especialy in the forward arc. So the question becomes, if i dont put it in the eyes/ears, where does it go and what does it look like?

there IS a prcedent for putting headware in an eye/ear. remember the datajack that plugged into your eye? you can still do that. 1 capacity, and plug in.

further, ultrasound is listed specificaly as a vision enhancement, and has no listed restrictions of where it could be put. you could start with an ultrasound monocle (availibility 12).

I can think of only one reason not to put the ultrasound in the cybereyes- active ultrasound is a very good target for anyone with passive ultrasound and a gun.

My tuppence:

Basically, to be used, the information from a sensor (thermo, low-light, ultrasound, vision magnification) needs to be added to the user's normal vision. This can be achived via AR. As long as the user has a display link (in goggles/contacts/cyberware), the information from the sensors can be composited togther in the AR view.

It's the placement of the sensors themselves which is the question for me.

Vision is a directional sense, it can only be received in one direction (with a certain field of view). Therefore, vision based sensors (thermo, low-light, magnification) must be closely inline with the users view to be helpful. This would usually mean in goggles, cybereyes, or helmet (i.e. it must turn with the head).

Sound is omni-directional, can be received from any direction. An ultrasound sensor could therefore be located anywhere, and any source could be used[1]. Hence it not being a cybereye accessory, but a bodyware one. Cybereye space is precious, so no need to have one there if in's not necessary. Even if you need the sensor inline with the eye, you probably wouldn't want the transmitter to be (as discussed already).

I think the confusion comes because of the goggles based ultrasound accessory. I read this as simply a conveinient place to locate both the ultrasound emitter and sensor, as goggle 'real-estate' is not as precoious as cybereyes. I would allow any ultrasound sensor to feed to an AR display, and assume that any ultrasound sensor includes a transmitter.

HTH

[1] Although I'm not sure about this. I would imagine, from my basic physics, that to get detailed information about ALL the surroundings (not just the source of ultrasound), you would need to to know the exact position of the source to interpret the ultrasound reflections correctly. Although I could well be wrong.

If you've got the source and the reciever built into your skull (or goggles), you know their exact location. Where the walls and stuff that they're mapping are is relative to the user anyway.

www.soundforesight.co.uk

Real life ultra sound use. It's directional, since you can't make an ultrasound reciever omnidirectional and still be of use (wouldn't know where the contact was).

Only one is needed for range since it measures time between pulse transmission and receipt. You ojnly need two if you're using a passive sensor of some sort, like eyes. There could be computer tricks for cameras I guess, calculating the angle of the ground and where the object's feet/base was, or a shadow for something airborne.

Besides, where on your head would you place ultrasound that has u nobstructed line of sight all around without looking conspicuous? I mean scientists know today taht dolphin ultrasound is in their foreheads, but the sound can't go all directions from there. The whole point of ultrasound is it *doesn't* pass through objects particularly well, at least not solid objects (explaining the medical use). It can't get through the side of your skull.

And I agree the idea of ultrasound contacts is patently absurd, although glasses is possible but dubious to me at present (at least for this level of detail). I'm not even sure how contacts can magnify or give thermo/low light, but there you go

Well in theory, correct me if I'm wrong, the ultrasound could be purely passive, working on ambient noise. Even a sound proof room, produces about 20dB of noise, true soundlessness doesn't exist (outside a vacuum) so your ultrasound, would work every where, but at a lesser degree in some places. That would save room, since you wouldn't need an emitter, just a reciever and processor. and technically you could wistle in really quiet places.

But then the book does say this ultrasound detects temperature differences. Which is a bit troubling, since I can't even imagine how a technology like that would work.

People in the future don't get headaches!

And who says you [e]can't[/e] use contacts and cybereyes together?

Who says you can't?

That's what I meant. Damn it.

technicaly.... you could just have contacts with your basics (image link and smartlink), and then where goggles with various vision upgrades over that. a lil more bulky and expensive, but much more availible.

and gives me nightmare about how to handle LOS from magic...

still, they dropped the optical "zoom" for magicans in SR4 right?

Well, you can't buy optical zoom in cybereyes anymore, but you could buy a pair of regular old glass zoomed binoculars.

Lowlight and IR wouldn't work for mages if external, since those are electronic...

So, the magician can use astral perception, which makes him vulnerable, or cybereyes, which isn't for every mage . Hm, or just accept the modifiers. Or munch, sorry, play a metahuman.

Or he can buy a flashlight.

What do you mean? Technically, you don't need the binoculars, since you can see the person with or without them, they just make more sense.

Simsense is just that, simulated sense, not your natural ones, so no good for that.