Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Skill wires and actisofts
Dumpshock Forums > Discussion > Shadowrun
Loestal
In 3rd ed. I was a huge fan of using skill wires and actisofts. But now in 4th ed. they seem so nerfed they aren't even worth using. The wires themselves aren't that expsensive but the actisofts are and you can only get it up to a level 5...that seems hardly worth EVER using. Unless I read something wrong...and you add the actisofts rating in dice to your original skill....then I see this as practically useless...any thoughts?
James McMurray
Activesofts you can only get up to rating 4, but even then they're still worthwhile. Getting a skill from rating 0 to rating 4 costs IIRC 20 karma. Alternatively you could shell out the cash and get a rating 4 autosoft while spending the karma on other stuff.

The usability of skillsofts comes when you use it for skills you wouldn't normally need. I've got a character whose skillwires are his bread and butter. He even uses them for pistols and unarmed (something I wouldn't normally recommend).
Serbitar
Do not forget that skill rating of 4 is already pro level. SR4 is not SR3 where everybody and his mother is running around with 6 values in skills.
Cheops
Yeah, instant high-level ability in nearly any skill is pretty good...

Skillwires become really good if you have an aggressive group and a GM who tries to be pretty realistic about the police. You grab some masks, grab your guns and do a good old snatch and grab at the 'soft store. Doesn't get you those high level softs but should get you all the commercially available ones at 1-3.
Aaron
QUOTE (Serbitar)
Do not forget that skill rating of 4 is already pro level. SR4 is not SR3 where everybody and his mother is running around with 6 values in skills.

Agreed. An SR4 skill at 4 is the equivalent of an SR3 skill at 5 or 6 (per the character conversion rules).
Loestal
QUOTE (Aaron)
QUOTE (Serbitar @ May 24 2006, 03:37 PM)
Do not forget that skill rating of 4 is already pro level. SR4 is not SR3 where everybody and his mother is running around with 6 values in skills.

Agreed. An SR4 skill at 4 is the equivalent of an SR3 skill at 5 or 6 (per the character conversion rules).

I guess I have a hard time remembering that, it's hard to re-educate myself on the game.
The Jopp
Take a look at the sample contacts for a reference. Your average lonestar has an agility of 3 and pistols of 2, not very impressive, unless you think about that "proffessional" rating on someone is 3. For 6 skillpoints you got 1/3 in pistols/semiautomatics and are a pro with semis.
Edward
You managed to make skill wires useful in SR3.

I tried that, it was imposable, cheaper and easier to just learn the skill. They are much more practical in SR4, as a starting character you could have skill wires 3 and its les than 2 build points in nuyen for an activsoft 3.

Personally I think skillwires are to cheep in the new edition/

Edward
Teulisch
a starting character can only have skillwires at rating 3. activesofts can start at 4- good if you intend to upgrade your wires soon. thats 6 skills you can use at once, initialy.

with current rules, an unskilled person using a rating 4 activesoft gets +5 dice. with an average stat of 3, that means going from 2 to 7 dice. its a big difference.

also... there are 6 social skills. you could be a 'face' with nothing more than ware to back you up. suddenly that street sam got a lot more effective. sure the programs cost a LOT, and can be hard to get at availibility 8, but they are quite usefull. you can, in a moment, go from a combat monster to a face, and then to a hacker. why bother learning? just slot your softs.
cx2
Or imagine a street sam is driving along and has a breakdown in the barrens... wouldn't you just love to be able to slot a mechanic skillsoft and repair your car before the gangers start trouble?
Cain
Softs in SR4 also have the huge advantage that you don't need to actually carry them around anymore. Once you crack the copy protection, you can simply upload as many copies as you like to your various devices. So, that single set of skillwires can hold every single activesoft program you've got, all at once. You can only use a few at a time, but you will never again have to fumble around for the right chip at the right time.
James McMurray
Yep, SR4 softs rock. Don't forget that you can't use edge with them though. So if you've got a decent edge and wantt o power game, don't put skills like infiltrate and pistols on your softs. You'll want to know those personally.
Jaid
QUOTE (James McMurray)
Yep, SR4 softs rock. Don't forget that you can't use edge with them though. So if you've got a decent edge and wantt o power game, don't put skills like infiltrate and pistols on your softs. You'll want to know those personally.

nevermind those, how about demolitions? now there's a skill you want to be able to spend edge on =D
wavydavy
QUOTE (Jaid)
QUOTE (James McMurray @ May 24 2006, 09:33 PM)
Yep, SR4 softs rock. Don't forget that you can't use edge with them though. So if you've got a decent edge and wantt o power game, don't put skills like infiltrate and pistols on your softs. You'll want to know those personally.

nevermind those, how about demolitions? now there's a skill you want to be able to spend edge on =D


Or parachuting? :)
NightHaunter
QUOTE (wavydavy)
QUOTE (Jaid)
QUOTE (James McMurray @ May 24 2006, 09:33 PM)
Yep, SR4 softs rock. Don't forget that you can't use edge with them though. So if you've got a decent edge and wantt o power game, don't put skills like infiltrate and pistols on your softs. You'll want to know those personally.

nevermind those, how about demolitions? now there's a skill you want to be able to spend edge on =D


Or parachuting? smile.gif

Diving?
Edward
Teulisch, the sum of the ratings of active skill softs is twice the rating of the skill wires.

With rating 3 skill wires you can only have 6 skills running if you have them at rating 1

On the other hand the programs donít cost a lot, ok the cost is non trivial but compare it with the cost of actually learning a skill.

Toptomcat
Also, softs being software instead of chips these days, it's a LOT easier to swap them in and out mid-run or mid-fight.
fuzzypanzer
Question,

Since you can have more than one datajack, could you buy skillwires multiple times to increase the capacity of how many you could run at once?

Like, having 2 of them to have rating x4 active?
Butterblume
I don't think so (gut-call wink.gif ).

You probably can't have 4 cybereyes installed... But I am not sure its forbidden wink.gif.
Squinky
They had rules in SR3 for multiple eyes....

I would say you could get another, but really you shouldn't need it. Just keep your softs on reliable memory somewhere and switch them out with a simple mental command when appropriate.
Rotbart van Dainig
In SR4, nothing prevents you doing that - except you GM, that is. wink.gif
..and maybe some people that might react hostile to a guy calling himself Many-Eyes... but those are rare.

Trying to get around rating limits through multiple implants, on the other hand, is plain cheating.
James McMurray
SR3 had cybereyes you could put other places besides your eye sockets.
-X-
I sort of think of skillwire ratings as BEING additional skillwires (In combination with the expert system to run it). So if the max rating is 6, then that is the most wires they can effectively put in you.
ronin3338
QUOTE (James McMurray)
SR3 had cybereyes you could put other places besides your eye sockets.

True... another example of RAW gone bad.

Not that anybody in my game ever wanted them, but I think I would have had a hard time allowing it.
Squinky
I put one on my characters cyber-hand once, just to peek around corners...
James McMurray
Why wouldn't you allow it? It's not abusive. It's really more flavor then anything else.
-X-
QUOTE (ronin3338)
QUOTE (James McMurray @ May 27 2006, 05:00 PM)
SR3 had cybereyes you could put other places besides your eye sockets.

True... another example of RAW gone bad.

Not that anybody in my game ever wanted them, but I think I would have had a hard time allowing it.

Actually I thought the RAW was extremely well written, maybe a bit too restrictive actually. An eye placed anywhere other than in an eye-socket took some TN penalties to tasks coordinated sole-ly by that eye.

(Whereas in RL the brain isn't at all picky about what kind of sensory input it gets, typically after a week or two of use the new way of looking at the world is almost 'turned on' like a switch and your brain accepts the new input as if that was the way things have always been.

There are huge strides made in using ultrasound to allow the blind to see, even though the current set ups are incredibly crude compared to what existing technology could likely build, users are able to distinguish knives from forks and tell how many fingers you are holding up.)
Edward
I donít think getting around rating limits buy installing multiple copies of cyber wear is cheating. Your paying the essence again and the cash again. And its not going to be useful as often (how often would you not be able to just swap out your 2 max level programs)

The biggest problem is that they would conflict with each other. Instead I would allow an implant that runs rating *4 rating points of activsofts for twice the price and twice the essence. Availability +2.

I see no balance or logical reason not to allow such an implant

Edward
Dranem
QUOTE (fuzzypanzer)
Question,

Since you can have more than one datajack, could you buy skillwires multiple times to increase the capacity of how many you could run at once?

Like, having 2 of them to have rating x4 active?

Though you can have more than one datajack... skillwires run through your entire nervous system.. to attempt to put more than one set would encourage signal crosstalk and maybe even nerve damage...
If you want to look like an epileptic going through a grand mal fit - sure, but I don't think it'd be effective....
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Dumpshock Forums © 2001-2012