Having random character ideas, lead me to trying to convert a shapeshifter from 3rd Ed Critters, using the character conversion PDF didn't help that much however. I can't decide on what the stat increases would be, looking at the human form body, quickness(agility and reaction), strength, and charisma are above normal, by 2 each. Added to this shapeshifting, and regneration and that would be worth as much if not more than a troll, even with moderate allergy to silver. I've searched on here for a conversion, and on other shadowrun sites that I know of, but I can't find anything, any ideas or a point in the right direction would be greatly appreciated, thank you.

You might have not had the time limit set back far enough. The default 30 days doesn't cover that much. Here is one, and some of my thoughts about that very problem are discussed there.

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=10423

I haven't seen anyone report gaming experiences of Shapeshifters in SR4 other than someone that mentioned having a GM dream up and use actual lycanthopy creatures that were perhaps some new strain of HMHVV. But those were NPC only and also didn't use the new canon Regeneration instead using something closer to the more powerful SR3 version.

I've statted up as many variants as I could find.
I have them pointed between 60 and 50 points.
However I also changed then so you only buy the Physical attributes once as there is restrictions as to how much can be spent on them.
I've sent a copy to a few people as I have no web page of my own.
Any wishing for a copy can either mail or PM me and I'll send it out. (Word File)
Unless the peeps i've sent it to can post a link.

Some concrete attribute and cost ideas were put down on this thread.

But it eventually got derailed by people ranting about playable Reticulons. But it certaily was a starting point.

-Frank

Thank you for the help, but here are some ideas I've had based off trying to bash together 3rd and 4th, with my limited understanding of 3rd.
For a wolf shapeshifter:
for starting stats
bod agi rea str cha int log wil mag edg
2/7 3/8 1/6 2/7 1/6 1/6 1/5 1/6 1/6 1/5
While I know there is no precedent for a lowered edge, balancing that with the other stats seemed like a good idea.
Regeneration, and automatically giving them the spell Wolf Form, but they have to purchase the magic with it, this takes care of the augmented stats from switching froms in Critters, it just acts like the spell, but as an innate ability. No focus items could be used on it, and it doesn't have to be sustained.
Severe allergy to silver, and uneducated, thats a -40 BP to start with, I think making them 25-30 would be reasonable for a cost.

thank you, any feedback is very welcome

I can't say I approve of that stat line. Historically, Shapeshifters get Animal modifiers to their physical attributes and Charisma bonuses. Your setup has Physical bonuses well in advance of anything that a wolf could dream of having and no Charisma bonus at all.

'm going to stick to my old suggestion of:


B: 1/6
A: 1/6
R: 1/6
S: 1/6
C: 3/8
I: 1/6
L: 1/6
W: 1/6
Edg: 1/6
Ess: 8
Mag: 1/6

Powers: Dual Natured, Regeneration
Weaknesses: Allergy (Silver, Severe), Sensitive System, Uneducated

Then, when you turn into your animal form, you get modifiers to your physical attributes and abilities as follows:

Wolf: Natural Weapon = Strength, Movement = 10/50
Great Cat: B+3, A+2, R+1, S+2, Natural Weapon = Strength, Movement = 10/60
Rat: B-2, A+2, R+2, S-2, -1 Reach
Shark: A+2, R+2, Natural Weapon = Strength+2, Movement = 20/60 (swimming)


And assign a BP cost of:

Wolf: 40 BP
Great Cat: 60 BP
Rat: 60 BP
Shark: 40 BP

Those are kind of stiff costs, but the abilities are pretty impressive. That Essence of 8, for example, can end up doing some crazy stuff. Also, I'm talking about them getting Regeneration all the time, not just while in puppy dog form. There's no "wolf-form" caveat on the Shapeshiter rules for NPCs, just in the watered-down 3rd edition version for nerfing player characters.

-Frank

Sorry, I'm new to this but, what would extra essence do for you? Isn't it only for things like ware, and being drained by vampires etc? I may have missed something but I am only familiar with 4th, and I can't seem to find any skill, ability, or test that is related to essence, it only seems to be a limiting factor om magic/resonance and ware, so what would the increased essence be for? Also with sensitive system essence loss from cyber/bioware would be double, and that would pretty much negate and extra essence. The "Wolf Form" I'm talking about is the specialized form of the spell shapechange (critter) form. I had considered a charisma boost as well, but that seemed like to much, as the human form from Critters had increased physical stats, and charisma. I also was trying to streamline the bonuses gained from shifting, by making it just the hits like the spell, and mabye adding a special thing, like your differing damages or speed etc for different animals.

I don't think PC shapeshifters should be allowed as PCs.

My understanding was Shifters couldn't get bioware or cyber at all.

It mostly depends on how you read the regeneration power works. At best, the surgeon could put whatever the creature is allergic to on him, then knock him out, do the surgery, and watch the cyber get healed out after the allergen was removed. Good luck with that.

The new regeneration is much weaker than that. Any wound caused by an allergenic weapon or magic attack never heals with regeneration. So if you cut a shapeshifter's kidney out with a silver melon-baller or a telekinetic manipulation, it's not coming back. And if you insert a new kidney into that space, it'll grow in like it would for any other human or wolf.

Now, that had better be a tissue-matched kidney, because that's not a human, so if you put a human generic kidney in (for example: a piece of off-the-shelf bioware), the shapeshifter is going to have a potentially lethal auto-immune reaction to the new organ.

But getting it in and keeping it there isn't even a deal.

-Frank

SR3 rules state that a shapeshifter can't take ANY cyberware or bioware. There are two reasons for this:

1. Their natural immune system constantly attacks the implant
2. When they shapechange the implant doesn't. The body instantly sees it as a foreign object and <see point one>

Again and still, that's only what the Player Character Nerftastic version of the shapeshifter rules said. The ones with their own special nerfed rules for how regeneration worked. NPC shapeshifters never had that rule, and since they used the animal form rules, they really didn't have that problem.

So no, the only rules that ever said that shapeshifters couldn't have any bioware were the ones that also didn't make any sense and were created for the singular reason of hurtihg player characters. I can't imagine why I would want to take those rules as canon.

-Frank

I can think of four reasons off the top.

1. They are written down in a rules book.
2. They were written down after the other rules, and as such at least supercede the others if not overlap which would bring the rule that exists precidence over the rule that does not exist.
3. The shapeshifter was indeed brought in line to avoid such silliness as you pointed out, and more, so that it could be used as a PC, like it seems Bryce963 is intending, without having the GM just do similar things to avoid having it turn into a 1 man team.
4. Given the first three points it would seem very likely that when the offical SR4 shapeshifters come out they will be described and statted along similar lines to that given in the SComp.

Notice that in SR4 Regeneration for all critters was tuned down even further than in SComp.