Negative profit margin should generally be avoided by any for-profit venture.

I'd be very happy if we ever did get even the pdf...

Definitely. I'd be happy to pay full price even for an outdated 3rd edition version of SoLA.

Yeah, so would I, but my point is how many OTHER people would be? My guess is not so many, which is why I suggested the bargain basement price.

How much really needs updating? Are you talking only SR3 to SR4 dice mechanics, or also adding and updating the info to fill the timeline from 2064-2069?

I'd also love to update it at some point.

Dice mechanics, yes, but I'm also talking about updating the setting material for a 2070 setting. Which wouldn't be a huge amount of work, really, and I wrote two of the larger chapters for SoLA (Aztlan and the Carib League). 90% of what I wrote for each of those hasn't changed in the five year gap.

When a book is expected to sell fewer copies [and thus printed in a less quantity], the price actually has to go *up*, as the fixed costs of a book -- writers, layout guys, artists, etc -- do not go down.

Bah. You and your microeconomic theory.

That's fine. I'd pay $40-45 bucks for it, even if it is 3rd edition. Hell, I just went out and bought a hard copy of the 4th edition bible that I'll probably never really use and probably only look at once or twice in my life. I bought the PDF when it came out, and PDFs are far more useful to my needs, but I still wanted the book.

As for updating SoLA, why bother until it's necessary? Unless there's a ton of mechanics that we need to use the supplement in SR4 (doubtful), individual GMs can always update the material as they see fit when necessary. SoLA is a setting book, and setting books are all about fleshing out areas and inspiring ideas, two things that work the same regardless of what edition the book is written for.

I think it'd be unwise to release SoLA for $40. As a writer, I want people to actually get a chance to read what I wrote, preferably as many people as possible. The best way to accomplish that would be to either toss it out there for free (in which case we probably wouldn't update it, since our writing time is better used elsewhere) or make it completely relevent to the current game line and release it at a standard price. I know there are people out there who would buy it if it were $40, or $50, or whatever, but I want to get it to a lot of people, not just those few people.

On updating SoLA: The vast majority of the book is setting material. While there are definitely mechanics in there that no longer make a whole lot of sense with SR4's mechanics, I also think it would be important to update the setting material too. There's been a five year progression in the timeline and many important events happened in that period (wireless AR being one major thing). Just to toss out one example: the material I wrote for the Aztlan chapter on San Diego would need to be updated, since it has been hit with a major earthquake and flooded since then. What I wrote made sense for 2064 San Diego, but doesn't accurately reflect 2070 San Diego.

Corrected. Five cents please.

So what is the hold up? (Not asked in a whiny "come on guyyyys" voice, just a "I wonder" sort of thing. Okay, maybe a little whiny. )

This isn't exactly the case. The writers have been informed of the situation of SoLA, but there's precious little else that we (or FanPro) can do at this point. There were reasons why FanPro could not release a pdf only version of the book and Holostreets presented a means to make it available to the fans. Unfortunately Holostreets seems to have slipped into limbo for the time being, but rest assured FanPro has not forgotten SoLA.

I do hope this hasn't been caused by a rift between Fanpro and Wizkids, or anything like that.

Holostreets/Battlecorps isn't owned by Wizkids. It's owned by In Media Res productions, who license a different set of rights to CBT and SR than FanPro. As they're a separate company from FanPro, it's not surprising that FanPro freelancers wouldn't be kept up to date on IMR's internal proceedings.

Looking at the Battlecorps web site, it's worth noting that on their contact us page, they're looking for a redhat/PHP developer/web admin. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if the delay in rolling out holostreets is tied in some way to a lack of manpower.

Well, since it was announced that the book would be published by Holostreets, IMR probably bought at least the electronic rights to it. (Alternatively, there might be a gentleman's agreement between FanPro and IMR.) If that's the case, then FanPro wouldn't be able to release a PDF. Mind you, as 4th edition has now been out for 9 months, I can only imagine that as interest wains in a 3rd edition product, so would the value of that agreement. So for the sake of FanPro and the freelancers who worked on it, I sincerely hope that IMR paid in advance.

When FASA was still active, they sold the FASA Interactive subunit (independent company?) to Microsoft. That included all electronic gaming rights to all of their properties. My understanding is that those rights aren't licensed with a recurring fee. Instead, they are wholy owned by FASA Interactie/Microsoft. As a consequence of that, my understanding is that no one from the old FASA (or WizKids, or FanPro, or any of the other companies involved) would need to approve/sign off on/get a sneak preview on any of the products that Microsoft releases. Therefore, they're able to diverge from the pre-existing lines in anyway that they'd want to. (Thus, the video game that bears little semblance to the existing products.)

When FASA stopped production, all rights for Battletech, Crimson Skies, and Shadowrun (save the electronic gaming ones mentioned earlier) went to WizKids (along with several of the key employees of FASA.) FanPro, formerly a German language only licensee of FASA, licensed the Pen and Paper gaming rights for CBT and SR, because WizKids had no interest in supporting a P&P RPG.

Void publishing rights reverted to the game's creator.

Earthdawn remained with FASA. I'm guessing that's because the game line was defunct at the time. Both Living Room Games and Red Brick Games purchased non-exclusive licenses from FASA. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if FASA would enthusiastically sell another non-exclusive pen and paper license if somebody else ponied up the dough.

I've no idea what happened with Renegade Legion, Crucible, or Traveller products that FASA produced. I'm reasonably certain that the Star Trek, Masters of the Universe, Doctor Who and Battlestar Galactica rights reverted to the actual owners of those IPs long before FASA stopped production.

Attending a convention is expensive for a game company, and having new products at it helps recoup those expenses, as direct sales generate a lot more profit than sales to distributors/retail stores.

Awesome. Because the Holostreets deal was only announced at Origins 2005 a year ago.

Thanks the_dunner. Actually I was aware of most of this. My question (primarily in jest) was more along the line of 'which individual made these decisions- they deserve a slap!'

I envision a Thomas Roxborough-alike corporate raider, floating in a vat, cackling and gurgling as he uses his insane wealth and ruthless Gordon Gecko skills to acquire the rights to ED & SR- then splits them up and sells them off piecemeal because they're worth more as individual scrap than they are as a coherent whole.

No one person made those decisions -- they happened over a period of years. Really, aside from Microsoft getting all the computer game rights as opposed to the license, there's nothing *that* strange in the licensing situation.

And a slight correction to dunner's post; Crimson Skies is actually owned by Microsoft as well; WizKids did the clix game under some sort of licensing agreement with them.