well if you have a speed monkey sam with 3 init passes maybe 4 with some drugs and such theres your second, third and maybe 4th shot in one round it does have a clip

I just wish they had some RAW for drones and vehicles for recoil. crosses fingers maybe they will have it someday for 4th edition

Just use tripod stats for vehicle mounts. i can't see a turret being worse than a tripod for stability.

Just because you get only one shot a pass doesn't make the gun not recoil. I'm pretty sure most guns recoil no matter how rapidly you shoot. Sure the Panther never gets a recoil modifier on it's shots, unless your doing something odd, but it will still kick a little with each shot, so the recoil will be punishing, just not problematic for shooting.

In other words, the fluff is that it has punishing recoil, but there is no in-game, rule-enforced penalty from the recoil.

Because, the second persons reactions and speeds are sped up either through drugs, cyberware, bioware, or magic.

Try to watch the episode of MythBusters (as seen on the discovery channel in Canada) where they bust the myth of being blown away from a gun blast. Now fast forward to the Panther XXL, this is the weapon that WILL blow you away. The recoil on this weapon will put anyone tring to fire this thinkg un-supported through a wall.

A healthy amount of exaggeration there. The damage code of the Assault Cannons is not, neither in SR4 or SR3, all that huge. Sure, it's a big-ass gun. So is the Barrett M82, and the Barrett XM109 (which is generally considered the best real-world equivalent for SR's assault cannons), both of which can be fired by humans just fine. I imagine the XM109 can cross over to the uncomfortable range for most shooters, by some accounts having a recoil significantly stiffer than 12G magnums, but it's unlikely to put you on your ass, nevermind through a wall.

FNH USA were showing off a "High Impulse Weapon System" in one of the Blackwater Shootouts that fired 40mm high-velocity grenades, like those fired from the Mk 19 automatic GL. That's well outside of the power range of an "assault cannon". It also had a quite advanced form of recoil reduction buffer, and yet plenty of people were dropped on their asses firing it. In fact a lot of large men, and experienced shooters, staggered backwards several meters before falling on their asses firing that thing. I'm pretty sure nothing came out of the HIWS fad.

I was watching the news on TV last night and saw some footage of fighters in some far off place firing a Russian made recoil-less gun. I know bugger all about RL firearms but it had a barrel large enough to accomodate a 2L bottle of Soy-pepsi and apart from a big bang and a ton of dust and smoke there was minimum recoil.

Surely we can assume that a similar technology of redirecting the venting gasses has been used on the PAC?

it's so obvious. the reason the PAC has RC is so that you can dual-wield them. dual recoil still stacks in SR4, right?

I always figured that the SS rate of fire was part of the "tremendous recoil." The weapon's design and imagery seems to indicate that it's semiautomatic, so the ROF being SS, in my opinion, is referencing the amount of time it takes to recover from the recoil.

It's like the old Salavette Guardian being able to fire bursts as a Complex Action. It's not that the cyclic ROF on the gun is appallingly slow, it's that the gun walks up real fast on burst, and takes a sec to get back on target.

Not in my game.
You are not rolling for longshot when your barrel is pointed at the sky. The combat would be over by the time that shot lands!

In my game, shooting a Panther improperly braced (without say, a tripod or a gyromount) deals 5P damage (and possibly breaks one's shoulder) to any idiot stupid enough to try it. No piece of cyberware (other than a gyromount), bioware, spell, or adept power will bypass this.

How about titanium bone lacing or bone density enhanced players? Does being an elf/human make them take more damage than an orc/troll?

So, firing an assault cannon deals actual, physical damage, equivalent to being shot with a pistol?

Obviously a Panther AC is basically like a 57mm AT gun. You can tell by the fact that it weighs more than a troll, fires HE ammunition that weighs 5kg per cartridge and has a much larger area of effect than grenade launcher rounds, has an effective range of more than 4 kilometers, and automatically kills any metahuman it hits without any rolling necessary.

Clearly it has a shock pad because you'll need the recoil compensation when firing a SECOND assault cannon in your off hand.

Perhaps we should should split the difference and say that you can fire assualt cannons semi-automaticly if you dual wield and fire both at the same time in opposite directions while sommersault jumping like in Contra 3.

3P is still quite excessive. A body 12 troll (who shoudl be able to fire it just fine) would still have a ~19% chance of taking some damage.

Receiving damage from firing a weapon is one good way to resolve glitches, I think.

Maybe they threw that in there in case some player comes up with a mod to add firing modes to a weapon and got it approved by the GM, and then started using a full auto Assualt Cannon

Didn't the CC have rules for adding autofire to a weapon?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it says that all heavy weapons suffer double recoil penalties if uncompensated. Which means firing a PAC from the hip, or simply not bracing it, would cause a -2 recoil penalty, yes?

Basically, yes. But since the first shot in an iniative phase has zero recoil, not much of an issue for a single shot weapon .

Right. The first shot per phase only has recoil if it's burst-fire. The PAC isn't capable of burst fire, nor is it capable of a second shot.

I've fired large caliber firearms before.
Due to the kick I wanted all the possible Recoil Compensation that I could get.

Some of the kick is eaten up in the firearms weight. This seems somewhat simplified in the damage vs gun size.

I would not recommend letting someone duel-weld anything bigger than an Machine Pistol, or SMG (possibly with minor penalties due to size) for game feel.

That's the 76mm version, which apparently pushes you back as much (as much recoil impulse), but has a much less sharp kick to it (less recoil energy and/or slower recoil transfer) than the 40mm HV model -- the 76mm probably fires a far heavier projectile, but at a far lower velocity. Those guys just stagger or fall down, the people who fired the 40mm HV one looked like they were hurt.

Too bad AFJ took down those videos.

When you start talking weapons over .50 caliber, you're getting well out of the range I'm familiar with. What would be the application of a shoulder-fired 40mm or 76mm HIWS, that something like an AT4 couldn't handle? Do they want it to serve as a kind of man-portable extremely heavy grenade launcher, or what?

Well, with the FN launcher Aus was talking about, the idea is simply to enhance the range of current shoulder-fired low-velocity 40mm launchers by using the high-velocity 40mm munitions that the Mk19 and other automatic grenade launchers fire. You're at least doubling your range that way.

As far as that 76mm HIWS, I have no idea what the point of it is (over an AT4), other than to demontrate a system that allows things that develop a very high recoil impulse, like mortars, to be fired from the shoulder. Why anyone would want to is irrelevant, I guess. But now you can!