BrianL03
Jun 23 2006, 03:27 AM
Okay, I have a PC in my game who's sporting a ton of Bioware and Cyberware off of character creation (because I'm a nice GM and I'll allow some cultured drek).
Now, as the PBP is going rather slow, I wanted to double-check everyone's numbers using the NSCRG, and I found out that this one character was 12 BP over what they were allowed to start with (which suprised me. The character's packed to the gills with guns, but other than that, they've got nothing to fall back on, although there were a lot of knowledge skills).
I do some calculations, and discover that they had calculated those Knowledge and Language Skills using their Augmented Score for INT.
Now, SR3 makes no differentiation as far as I can tell regarding the skill point availabilites coming from Augmented versus Unaugmented Attributes. I am personally going to play it as Unaugmented due to skill costs coming before gear in the selection phase, but then I got thinking... how do you determine what the cost for a new skill is going to be? Let's say they've got a BOD of 4(5), and want to raise their Athletics skill one level from 4 to 5. Would it cost the regular amount, or would it be raised a level since it's going above their Unaugmented?
hyzmarca
Jun 23 2006, 03:47 AM
Some augmentations count as unaugmented for all purposes in SR3. These include most Bioware (except Pheremones) and the Improved Attribute adept power. These are always factored in.
Sor cyberware and other augmentations that count as augmented there are good aruguements both ways. I think it may depend on the skill. Certainly, dermal armor won't help you run faster. It makes sense that unaugmented Body is used for body-based skills. However, other augmentations aren't clear-cut. Muscle enhancement should make STR and QUI related skills easier. However, as a general rule, I'd say that calculations should be made without considering cyberware.
BrianL03
Jun 23 2006, 03:53 AM
QUOTE (hyzmarca) |
Some augmentations count as unaugmented for all purposes in SR3. These include most Bioware (except Pheremones) and the Improved Attribute adept power. These are always factored in.
Sor cyberware and other augmentations that count as augmented there are good aruguements both ways. I think it may depend on the skill. Certainly, dermal armor won't help you run faster. It makes sense that unaugmented Body is used for body-based skills. However, other augmentations aren't clear-cut. Muscle enhancement should make STR and QUI related skills easier. However, as a general rule, I'd say that calculations should be made without considering cyberware. |
Wait, so if someone was to have a Cerebral Booster, would they gain an additional 3 language points and 10 knowledge skill points?
It just seems rather cheap to me to suddenly gain more skills just because you have the Nuyen.
hyzmarca
Jun 23 2006, 04:41 AM
How is it any more cheap than reflex recorders? They aren't just spending they're spending bioindex, too. If they're magicians they're spending magic points, as well.
Ryu
Jun 23 2006, 05:31 AM
Knowledge/language skill points depend on natural intelligence without ware.
Counting the cerebral booster was a common houserule though.
Member #5177
Jun 23 2006, 06:21 AM
Since bioware is counted as natural, I count it as the Attribute level for increasing attributes and skills. Unless the bioware states it does not effect thes (I think Tailored Pheromones is one.)
On the mnemonic enhancer and knowledge and language skill ratings, it adds a die, it does not raise the skill.
toturi
Jun 23 2006, 01:43 PM
Actually canon SR3 does not differentiate between augmented and unaugmented Intelligence for the purposes of Knowledge and Langauge skill points.
The actual rules quote would be:
QUOTE (p58) |
Knowledge Skill Points are calculated by multiplying the character's Intelligence by 5. |
Note there is no mention about unaugmented or natural Intelligence.
BrianL03
Jun 23 2006, 01:48 PM
QUOTE (toturi) |
Actually canon SR3 does not differentiate between augmented and unaugmented Intelligence for the purposes of Knowledge and Langauge skill points.
The actual rules quote would be:
QUOTE (p58) | Knowledge Skill Points are calculated by multiplying the character's Intelligence by 5. |
Note there is no mention about unaugmented or natural Intelligence. |
I read that in the SR3, but I had assumed it had that line due to its being published before the M&M.
Also, it seemed as if they had the character creation process go in a certain order, Race then Attributes then Skills then Gear, with gear being the final icing on the cake.
Ryu
Jun 23 2006, 02:20 PM
Yes, thats correct. By canon, any ware comes after buying skills, and bioware was no issue when SR3 was written.
Calculating skill point costs based on bioware-augmented attributes does improve the power of mundance characters. We allowed that by houserule, but its not canon.
toturi
Jun 24 2006, 12:45 PM
QUOTE (Ryu) |
Yes, thats correct. By canon, any ware comes after buying skills, and bioware was no issue when SR3 was written.
Calculating skill point costs based on bioware-augmented attributes does improve the power of mundance characters. We allowed that by houserule, but its not canon. |
True. But there is nothing in the rules that say you must spend all your Attribute points or Skill points before going on to Resources or that you cannot go back and spend "extra" skill points.
In fact, following the chargen flow strictly the Adept sample character would be impossible to create. Other then the Magical Abilities section, adepts and adept powers are not mentioned thereafter in chargen. Does that mean that they have to buy their powers BEFORE they assign Attributes points or Skills points?
If you follow the chargen flow strictly then Magical PCs can be a lot more potent than as presented in the book.
Kagetenshi
Jun 24 2006, 01:11 PM
QUOTE (hyzmarca) |
Some augmentations count as unaugmented for all purposes in SR3. These include most Bioware (except Pheremones) |
Pheremones aren't counted because they don't increase Charisma. They give bonus dice to Charisma and Social Skill tests, which is something entirely different.
~J
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