Abbandon
Jun 27 2006, 01:11 AM
Im finally getting around to making some characters for sr4 and Im kinda unhappy about the grouped skills. Do you guys think you should stick to groupings religiously or do you think its ok to switch out certain skills for others. For example:
Firearms:
Automatics
Longarms
Pistols
The above is the default. Do you think its ok to tweak it so it is the following:
Firearms:
Heavy Weapons
Exotic Ranged Weapons
Throwing Weapons
Do the weapons not in the skill groups justify not letting you get them for as cheap as the group skills?
Also regardless of the above. Lets say you get skill group fire arms at rating 4. Can you then increase one of the specific skills ? Like:
Firearms (4)
Automatics
Longarms (6) (for 12 extra bp's)
Pistols
(im gonna have to go back and atlar alot of things on my guys my bp's are evaporating before my eyes and i havent even got around to gear and weapons)
Samaels Ghost
Jun 27 2006, 01:23 AM
| QUOTE (Abbandon) |
Firearms (4)
Automatics
Longarms (6) (for 12 extra bp's)
Pistols
|
buying Longarms 5 and 6 will only cost 4 BP each... why did you spend "12 extra BP's"
Lagomorph
Jun 27 2006, 01:24 AM
The skills are in a group because they are resonably similar to one another, throwing weapons and heavy weapons aren't in there, because they aren't similar. I probably wouldn't allow switching out in most cases, however I could see switching a skill in the firearms group for heavy weapons or gunnery.
The general consensus is that it is not in the spirit of the rules to be able to buy up a skill after it is bought in a skill group. The characters in the book adhere to this from my understanding.
Abbandon
Jun 27 2006, 01:31 AM
Yeah your right i meant 8 and not 12.
Nothing stops you from raising skills individually after character creation so i dont know why it would before....It still costs points.
Samaels Ghost
Jun 27 2006, 01:32 AM
You can look here too for what has already been said on breaking skill groups during character creation.
http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=13503I agree with this post by Derek:
| QUOTE |
Here's an example of why I think you should be able to do it at chargen:
Say I want to make a mage, a banishing expert, who is also okay at the rest of the spirit area.
So, the end result desired is banishing 6, summoning 3 and binding 2.
Without skillgroups, this would cost 6x4 plus 3x4, plus 2x4, for a total of 44
With skill groups, this would cost 2x10 (conjuring skill group), plus 4x4 (banishing to 6), plus 1x4 (summoning to 3) for a total cost of 40.
This saves a total of 4 build points, which is not a huge amount. However, if you don't allow skill group breaking at chargen, a min/maxer might just say to heck with the banishing at 6, and make a character with the conjuring skill group at 4, for a total cost of 40, which gets him a 4 skill in each (binding, summoning, and banishing) Sure, he can't quite banish as well, but he can definitely summon and bind much better, so the end result is a more powerful character, for less build points, and one that might not be quite as interesting as a banishing expert could be.
So, my opinion is to reward 'interesting' characters with slightly more build points, and this would be one way to do it. Same thing with the other thread about phobias. All players might not be so inclined to make interesting characters if there aren't some incentives to do so. Some would, but some won't, and with the incentives, more people will, thus making for a more interesting game. Just my opinion, of course...
Dave
Edit: fixed a typo in the math |
And this one by Butterblume:
| QUOTE |
I want to put in a vote for "breaking up skillgroups can also be done at chargen" wink.gif.
I allow it for my players, I think it isn't really that abusable. It's imo a good way to have a more rounded (and logical) char at generation. And, after all, why should I compel a player to get a few points of karma before he can break up a group in play.
|
Ankle Biter
Jun 27 2006, 02:16 AM
I like the idea of breaking up skillgroups at startup as it is good for mages/hackers as generally speaking they want high levels in both their relevant skill groups, but also the ability to specialise and have some edge in some of their skills. It allows for more varied characters, as it does not force people to take the good all rounder route.
As for "Swapping out" skill groups "Exotic Ranged Weapon" counts as a different skill for each weapon, so skill grouping would only be allowed for certain of the exotics.
I would not allow Gunnery in the firearms SG, as it is used mainly while drone rigging, swapping out pistols for the "mounted on a vehicle, and physically firing the weapon" part of the skill is ok, but not the "firing while jumped into a drone". (I always felt that they should be seperate anyway).
Swapping Pistols for Heavy weapons is Ok, you are just used to long barreled weapons, but Throwing makes no sense in that context, though archery works a little better.
That being said Archery is a bone of contention with me, Having used longbows, crossbows, and slingshots, the difference between using those three is far greater than the difference between a sport rifle, and an assault rifle, for example. I would add slings to throwing, crossbows to longarms, and have longbows, and slingshots as exotic weapons. I have yet to find a weapon that fires significantly like a longbow, the closest is probably the slingshot, so I could live with that being part of the same skill as the longbow.