Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Character Creation questions
Dumpshock Forums > Discussion > Shadowrun
Abbandon
If a piece of cyberwear has a capacity rating that means he can stuff other things into without paying essense right ??

Like i was getting cybereyes Rating 3 which has a capicity of 12 with everything in them except drones, covers, and retinal duping. So as long as all the add-ons dont add up to more than 12 capacity they are free as far as essense? Otherwise my eyeballs are gonna be 1.2 essense which is insane.
Zolhex
Yes you are correct if a cyber item comes with capacity then you may if you choose add on at no additional essance cost so long as you stay at or below the capacity.

Which means for 1 essance a magical character can have almost all the toys available in his/her eyes ears and a commlink not bad for 1 essance.
Abbandon
Sweet so i went from 1.2 essense cybereyes to .4 lol. Now maybe i will hack my ears off to sweet!!
Abbandon
The machine gun called the ingram white knite says it cant be upgraded. What the heck does that mean? Is it talking about the built in gas vent? or can you not add a smartgun and gyrostabilizer to it?
ShadowDragon
QUOTE (Abbandon)
The machine gun called the ingram white knite says it cant be upgraded. What the heck does that mean? Is it talking about the built in gas vent? or can you not add a smartgun and gyrostabilizer to it?

It seems pretty definitive to me. But I'm inclined to ignore it as a GM. The barrel mount is taken by the gas vent, but you should still be able to use the top/under mounts for other things.
Abbandon
Ok. My dude has aluminum bone lacing which gives +2 to body when making damage resistance rolls. Would you include that in the condition monitor??
Abbandon
ooops i forgot to get some stun batons that my guy is suppose to specialize in lol.

Abbandon
My Troll Brawler

Name is Cerberus
Body 9, Agility 4, Reaction 5, Strength 7, Charisma 1, Intelligence 1, Logic 1, Willpower 4, Intuition 6

Condition monitor= 13P 10S
Initiative = 11 (13 w/ wire reflexes on)
Init pass's= 1 (3)
Edge: 1
Essense= 1.1
Qaulities= Bad Luck
Contacts: Cyberdoc 5/5, Fixer 3/2, Lonestar 1/2, Club Bouncer 1/1

Active Skills:
Dodge 5, Pistols 3, Heavy Weapons 4, Throwing weapons 4, Clubs 4 (spec batons),
Unarmed Combat 5 (spec mixed martial arts), Stealth group 1, Pilot Ground 4 (spec bikes), Artisan 1, Computer 1.

Knowledge Skills:
Interest-Professional fighting 4, Interest- Making Art 2, Street- pop music 1, Street- Movies 4, Street Seattle Shadow community 5, Professional- Security Procedures 5

Langauge SKills:
English N

Cybernetics: (all basic grade)
Wirereflexes 2
Aluminum Bone Lacing
Cyber eyes w/ most add-ons (max Ratings)
Cyber ears w/ all add ons (max ratings)

Weapons and Armor:
Fists that do physical damage (currently 6P)
Stun batons
Ingram White Knight w/ shockpad, gyro, gas vent 3, and smartgun (light machine gun) w/ basic ammo
Predator IV w/ smartgun and silencer w/ basic and some XX ammo
10 throwing knives
5 HE grenades

An Armor Jacket 8/6 (9/6 cuz of my bones)
some clothes
and a crappy commlink (response 1,signal 2,firewall 3, system 4)

Fluff test:
He was a rookie lonestar cop and worked a beat or something and he decided to start trying to take advantage of the situation, through some bad luck he got caught by an old cop friend (his contact) and instead of the older cop just reporting him he just told the kid to get lost because he liked him so much cuz they always hung out and talked together sometimes.

The cop erased his files and stuff from the system and lonestar didnt care that he left. Then Cerberus got fascinated with professional fighting and started doing underground fights. A few times he got beat up pretty bad through some more bad luck which resulted in him meeting a street doc (another contact). In exchange for doing some dirty deeds for the street doc he got his hands on some generic standard cyberwear.

He knows a small time fixer and a bouncer at a club and lives in apartment and he wants more cyberwear in his body so he works the shadows. He is kinda artistic and applys it to different mediums such as painting, drawing, music but it isnt good enough to make money off or anything. It is only satisfying to him and maybe friends.

I have no idea what he looks like physically. He wears suit pants, cargo/camo/denim pants, ripped/torn/shredded jeans, Kinda tight T shirts, Ripped/torn/mesh shirts, no shirt w/ suit jacket, combat boots or dress shoes.
Crusher Bob
Intelligence is not a stat. I assume you mean intuition 1 and edge 6? There is no Artisan active skill, unless I missed it somewhere, in general things like wood-carving or whatever should be knowledge skills.

You have no social skills, and a Cha of 1. This means that you are unable to interact socially with anyone at all (defaulting is stat -1). This means thatyou have great difficulty doing things like making your order at the Tastee Ghoul. You are also Inutition 1 with no perception skill, meaning that you are basically unable to notice anything not extremly obvious. You also have logic 1, meaning that doing something like walking and chewing gum at the same time uses up all of your available brain power. Most runners will not want to work with you, you are as dumb as a brick, can't see anything, and are not smart enough to understand a plan that involves more the monosyllables.


Take a look at the suggested stats of rookie cops in this thread and pick up most of the skills listed there. Also up all of your stats at 1 to at least 2s, if not 3s, what police force is going to hire someone who is falling off the bottom of the bell curve in charisma, logic, and perception?
DireRadiant
Maybe Cerberus is the Canine part of the K9 Unit. Just add some cyberteeth.
Grogs
QUOTE (Crusher Bob)
Intelligence is not a stat. I assume you mean intuition 1 and edge 6? There is no Artisan active skill, unless I missed it somewhere, in general things like wood-carving or whatever should be knowledge skills.

I'm pretty sure he meant Intuition 6 and Edge 1 since both are explicitly stated on the char. sheet and both the initiative and knowledge skills seem to work out correctly that way. The intelligence thing nearly threw me too. FWIW, I would think long and hard about putting that last attribute point in there. 25 BP is an awful lot for one extra point of an attribute. Maybe drop it to 5 (that would take you to 200 BP for mental/physical attributes) and use those 25 points on skills, contacts, or more cyberware.

Artisan is an active skill BTW, p. 125 of the SR4 Manual.
Lagomorph
If you're going to have a logic 1 character, you may as well take off the one point in computers. You may want to look at getting some kind of illiterate flaw since you won't be using much in the way of logic skills anyway.
coolgrafix
QUOTE (Casazil)
Which means for 1 essance a magical character can have almost all the toys available in his/her eyes ears and a commlink not bad for 1 essance.

Bear in mind that spells can't be cast through cybereyes. A mage with cybereyes is essentially blind for the purposes of casting spells. Someone correct me if I'm wrong on this.
Moon-Hawk
You are indeed wrong. Cyberware paid for with essence is considered part of the person's natural body as far as magic is concerned.
Gustave
Don't forget to add troll toughness to the armor. Also if the cop liked him enough to let him go, why is his loyalty so low?
coolgrafix
QUOTE (Moon-Hawk)
You are indeed wrong. Cyberware paid for with essence is considered part of the person's natural body as far as magic is concerned.

Excellent. Thanks for pointing this out. Made me actually research this a bit instead of assume.

SR4 page 173:

"A spellcaster can target anyone or anything she can see directly with her natural vision. Physical cyber- or bio-enhancements paid for with Essence can be used to spot targets, but any technological visual aids that substitute themselves for the characterís own visual senses -- cameras, electronic binoculars, Matrix feeds, etc. -- cannot be used."
Moon-Hawk
Right. Sorry I didn't have the quote for you.
The only time cyberware isn't considered part of the subject as far as magic is concerned is the spell Turn to Goo, which specifically states that ignores cyberware for some odd reason.
coolgrafix
Agreed on the "some odd reason" part.

SR4 page 204:

"Turn to Goo transforms living tissue into a sticky, glue-like substance. The caster must win an Opposed Test pitting her Magic + Spellcasting against the target's Body (+Counterspelling). Additionally, the spell's Force must equal or exceed the targetís Body. Non-living material -- including clothing, gear, and cyberware -- is not affected. The target is not conscious while under the effects of this spell, and any damage suffered by the gooey form affects the target normally. The goo has a barrier Armor rating equal to Body + net hits (see Barriers, p. 157)."

So just what the hell does "Non-living material -- including clothing, gear, and cyberware -- is not affected" mean. Probably a thread on that somewhere. I guess the subject just collapses into a pile of goo, her clothing and cyberparts laying in the pile separate. So presumably the clothing and cyberparts could just be picked up and packed away. How bizarre. There is nothing in the SR3 FAQ about the spell and it's not in the SR3 rulebook itself. Wish I had a PDF of Magic in the Shadows now. Doh!
Nim
I figure it means those things aren't turned to goo. Presumably the cyber would now be buried in the middle of your pile of goo, while the clothes would be wrapped around the outside of the pile of goo smile.gif

But...yes. It's a silly spell. And it raises all sorts of questions about what happens if you reach in and start pulling cyber OUT before turning them back. Or, for that matter, what happens if you add stuff....
coolgrafix
Previous discussion on Turn to Goo found here.
Abbandon
See thats why i posted my guy so others could check out him out. I was using pg73 when making my stats and there are two INI columns so i went with intelligence and intuition lol. Instead they are Intuition and intiatice which is dumb to have up there since intitiative is a derived attribute.

I will be moving some stuff around. Man i sure am gonna miss that high intutition i thought i had. I thought he would be really good at spotting things.


Ok Attributes:
Body 8, agility 4, reaction 5, Strength 7, charisma 2, Intuition 4,logic 2, willpower 4, initiative 9 (11 when wired).

Computer 1 still gives him better understanding of computers than the average joe. He isnt going to be a hacker or anything. Computer is the skill you use when using the matrix in a normal manner.

Artisan is a technical active skill. Not all skills are in groups. You can spec in things like singing, painting, carpentry, sculpture, guitars.

His lonestar contact has a low loyalty because he got caught being a criminal and abusing his position, if the lonestar didnt care about those things he probably wouldnt be with lonestar anyways but he is willing to overlook it as long as Cerberus doesnt try to be a lonestar guy anymore. It damaged their relationship.


Oh do you guys think my bone lacing should count towards my Condition Monitor??? And what do you think of my heavily modded ingram white knight that isnt suppose to be touched?
Shrike30
Bone lacing's description explicitly states that it adds to Body for damage resistance rolls, not that it augments your Body stat. It does not count towards your condition monitor.

The Ingram White Knight's "Cannot Be Modified" qualifier refers to the gas-vent system built onto the barrel. You're welcome to put anything you want onto the weapon in other locations, but the barrel mount is taken up by what is essentially a Gas Vent V... pretty impressive piece of gear there. Add on a bipod, and you can throw this thing down and rip out full bursts with barely any penalties. The gyromount you've got on there lets you do that AND run around like a fool without penalties... downright scary.

LMGs on gyromounts, for the record, are one of the ways to get a Lone Star HTR team dropped on your head so fast it'll spin. Careful where you use that thing nyahnyah.gif
Abbandon
Yeah i was only gonna use it in special circumstances. Otherwise my dude for the most part is gonna be an in your face fighter. Shooting with a pistol till he gets close and then either beating you unconscience with dual stun batons or just smashing your face in with his fists.


If your weapons base attack power is equal to or less than a targets armor it switches to stun damage right? This is kinda making me think about redoing him or something. The whole reason i took bone lacing was to do physical damage punchs instead of stun, which costs 15k nuyen and 1 essense. And he is gonna end up doing stun damage anyways?? Hopefully after he maxes out his strength and gets some muscle implants he will be in the 8+ damage range vs impact armor which should start working fine.
Shrike30
Net successes are added prior to that calculation, meaning that you're doing at least 7P when you smack someone. If they're not wearing more armor than an armored jacket (remember, this works against Impact, not Ballistic) then you're not going to get staged down.
Jaid
someone keeps saying the white knight cannot have a barrel mount added in because of the gas vent system... while i suppose it is possible they made a specific exception for the white knight which i hadn't noticed, i feel that i should point out that integral (ie comes included in the base model of the gun) accessories do not take up a slot. so, unless the white knight is a special case, it can still take a barrel mount too (not that there's all that many barrel mounts to choose from yet, anyways).
coolgrafix
QUOTE (Jaid)
someone keeps saying the white knight cannot have a barrel mount added in because of the gas vent system... while i suppose it is possible they made a specific exception for the white knight which i hadn't noticed, i feel that i should point out that integral (ie comes included in the base model of the gun) accessories do not take up a slot. so, unless the white knight is a special case, it can still take a barrel mount too (not that there's all that many barrel mounts to choose from yet, anyways).

This is absolutely correct. See SR4 page 310 and 301.
Samaels Ghost
QUOTE

and a crappy commlink (response 1,signal 2,firewall 3, system 4)


That Response attribute on the commlink acts as a cap for the System rating. Without a higher Response your commlink is actually a (response 1, signal 2, firewall 1, system 1)

Response in the cap for System
System is the cap for all programs, including Firewall.

QUOTE

In exchange for doing some dirty deeds for the street doc he got his hands on some generic standard cyberwear.


I don't know if I would consider Wired 2 systems generic... no rules problems there though

Also, unless you really like the idea of cyber eyes and ears I would suggest you go with outer enhancements like earbuds, glasses, or contacts instead of invasive cyber. You might want that Essense later cyber.gif . Though it may take longer to get a hold of (availabilty for vision enhncements like glasses and such goes up for each enhancement) the end result will be just as good. Since your guy is a brawler maybe something more hardy like goggles or monocles (i think of those Dragon Ball Z power readers when i think monocles...) might be more appropriate.
Abbandon
What would he need the essense for later on ??? I plan on getting alot of it back as i upgrade to delta grade cyber.

Ok it looks like its time to look at commlinks and crap. Thats why i went with the higher OS so i could be a little more protected with that higher firewall but if gets knee-capped by the response i will go with the generic OS.
Dranem
QUOTE (Abbandon @ Jun 27 2006, 04:45 PM)
See thats why i posted my guy so others could check out him out.†  I was using pg73 when making my stats and there are two INI columns so i went with intelligence and intuition lol.† Instead they are Intuition and intiatice which is dumb to have up there since intitiative is a derived attribute.

The second 'ini' in the table for races is your Initiative.
Yes it is dumb, but then you find stuff like that all over the book... wink.gif

As a note: Police work requires a fair bit of deductive reasoning.. You probalby wouldn't have even made it out of Police Academy with a Logic of 1.
Da9iel
The firewall on your comlink is still 3 IIRC. It is not limited by response or system.
Abbandon
Work with me damn it. I know i said he was like a street cop or something but i was just tossing that out there like a suggestion. Maybe he was gonna be part of a Heavy Response team thats why he has heavy weapons skill and or cyber. Maybe he was just gonna provide support or something to others.

Where else could he have worked to learn how to use heavy weapons. Im willing to change his lonestar contact to something else, Im also willing to ditch security procedures for some other knoweledge. I want the reason he leaves to have something to do with his bad luck qaulity.

I had gave his new stats after you guys pointed out that intelligence doesnt exist. I moved some stuff around and now his logic is 2!! Logic is just processing power and memorization. Why do you guys say he needs it so bad? Its not gonna help him melee or firefights? And why does he NEED it at the beginning of his life.

I need you guys over on the normal SR boards for help with my mage lol. I made the mistake of asking questions over there but nobody is trying to answer them and my post is just slowly sinking to the bottom.
ShadowDragon
Your character looks more ex-military than ex-Lonestar IMO. I picture Lonestar cops being more well rounded and less cybered up. I'm sorry but if I were your GM I wouldn't accept your character - it doesn't match your background at all.
Abbandon
Whats the best way to give fluff text? How much is history on the character? , How much is appearence, How much is personality??

How about....

Cerberus has always loved professional fighting, being a troll doesnt allow for many opportunities though and so he turned to underground fighting. This is where he learned alot about martial arts and basic combat. He was making a decent amount of money fighting, enough to get a few cybernetics installed. Between getting beat up and overhearing conversations of other fights he met a really good street doc who specializes in cybernetics. During his career as an underground fighter he was scouted by a low level security company.

Due to some bad luck Cerberus was in the hole for alot of money and so he took the job with the security company where he learned about security procedures and how to use throwing weapons, pistols and heavy weapons. After completeing training he was shortly thereafter let go after some bad luck caused a security job to become totally botched up and the package to be killed.

Now he is running the shadows as muscle for hire. He likes to goto clubs to people watch and listen to music but he doesnt drink, smoke, or do drugs. He keeps up with his martial arts skills and fancies himself a modern day samurai because of the rumors that they honed thier spirit by painting or writing poetry or just expresing themselves creatively.

I cant see my contacts anymore but just turn the lonestar guy into a 2/1 Loanshark lol.

(i've heard people talking about burning off bad qaulities? Is that in the book or just house rules kinda thing?)

That would be kool to give this guy a phobia of water. They said trolls sink and with bone lacing it would be even worse lol. I could see him on a large body of water with a team of runners and he has all the life vests strapped all over his body to where he can barely move.


coolgrafix
QUOTE (Abbandon @ Jun 28 2006, 07:04 AM)
I've heard people talking about burning off bad qaulities?  Is that in the book or just house rules kinda thing?

SR4 page 265...

Negative Qualities
---------------------
If the gamemaster approves, a character can work off a negative quality by undertaking severe changes as appropriate to the quality. For example, a character with an Addiction quality must work hard to kick the habit, resisting the temptation to relapse for a significant period (chosen by the gamemaster). If the gamemaster feels that a character has made the necessary changes to shrug off a negative quality, he can allow that character to pay twice the quality's BP cost to remove it.
Dr. Dodge
QUOTE (Abbandon)
What would he need the essense for later on ???  I plan on getting alot of it back as i upgrade to delta grade cyber.

Ok it looks like its time to look at commlinks and crap.  Thats why i went with the higher OS so i could be a little more protected with that higher firewall but if gets knee-capped by the response i will go with the generic OS.

just remember you don't get the essence back (as in my essence goes back to 5 or whatever) it leaves a hole if the cyberware is later removed. granted, delta cyberware will let you cram more cyberware into the same "hole" but once essence is gone, it's gone.
Samaels Ghost
I can't find where I thought I saw that System caps Firewall. Maybe I imagined it.... Let's just assume I'm wrong there.
Dr. Dodge
QUOTE (Samaels Ghost)
I can't find where I thought I saw that System caps Firewall. Maybe I imagined it.... Let's just assume I'm wrong there.

yeah it looks like firewall and system are mutually exclusive. at least as far as it says on p. 213 under matrix attributes.
Abbandon
Unless you wanna comment on Cerberus's new fluff text i would like to switch gears!!!!!

I wanna talk MAGIC. You can make your spells look like anything you want right?? Like you could take Power Bolt and make it look like lightning being shot out of your mouth or tke mana bolt and make it look like a kamahamaha blast from Dragonball?

I wanted to make some custom spells to. I'd love to have a single target and area target spell for something crushes. Single target might be something like choke and the area would would make like a group of people get squished together. I would like the targets to suffer secondary affects like the lightning/acid/fireball spells. And I would have the single target version be F/2 +3 and the area version F/2 +5. What would be a good secondary affect for that type of spell though??

Oh i also wanted a spell tht would let me knock a person back and maybe into the air. It would have a base movement in meters for a hit target. And then successes would add to the number. If a target hit an objct he would take damage to that of being rammed. I would like single and area version of this spell but i dont know what the drain should be like, and what would be a good base number in meters for how fast the targets would be traveling once they get hit.


Mentors: Does a mentor spirit grant the same advantages and disadvantages to each mage following its path? Or can followers of the same path have different advantages and disadvantages?? Is there any good way to design your own mentor and what adv/disadv he gives. There are some catagories i would love to have bonus's for but they never have good disadvantages. The seductress is pretty kool but her dis of making the mage be tempted by all forms of vice just goes against some of the things i believe in like no drinking or doing drugs and so i just cant do it.

I prefer shamanism. I'd like to have a bat or crow mentor or something to do with the night. I saw some elemental mentors for hermetics, some nature spirits might make a kool mentor.

You only gain your advantages or disadvantages when you are in the environment of your mentor right? Oh you also start getting penalized for staying out of your mentors environment after awhile though huh?

How many spells should a spellcaster start with? I have 3 combat, 1 health, and 1 manipulation.
coolgrafix
QUOTE (Abbandon)
Oh i also wanted a spell tht would let me knock a person back and maybe into the air. It would have a base movement in meters for a hit target. And then successes would add to the number. If a target hit an objct he would take damage to that of being rammed. I would like single and area version of this spell but i dont know what the drain should be like, and what would be a good base number in meters for how fast the targets would be traveling once they get hit.

There was a spell in previous editions called Ram, I think. Don't have my source materials here with me but I think it was not in the core rulebook. Seems like that may be what you're looking for. Looking at how it was defined earlier may help your decisioins in SR4.
coolgrafix
QUOTE (Abbandon)
You can make your spells look like anything you want right?? Like you could take Power Bolt and make it look like lightning being shot out of your mouth or tke mana bolt and make it look like a kamahamaha blast from Dragonball?

While not stated explicitly in SR4, the following is mentioned under Noticing Magic:

SR4 page 168:

"... most spells and spirits have little, if any, visible effect in the physical world (unless the magician prefers to have flashy effects, or her tradition calls for it) ..."

Something like Flamethrower needs to obviously look like a jet of flame, but I suppose nothing precludes it from being BLUE flame (or even red flame covered with the faces of the tortured damned showing through for that matter).

It's worth noting that the SR4 rulebook doesn't seem to really indicate WHAT spells look like. Previous editions talked more about this, but for SR4 it seems reasonable to make them look like whatevere you want, within reason.
CradleWorm
QUOTE (Abbandon)
Ok.  My dude has aluminum bone lacing which gives +2 to body when making damage resistance rolls.  Would you include that in the condition monitor??

No this +2 would not be added to your body when computing your condition monitor. This +2 makes it more difficult to hurt you, but does not allow you to take more damage.

Only modifications to your actual body increase your condition monitor. This is also important for another reason, this +2 does not count towards your racial max for body.

So for example a human character with a body of 9 (modified by some other cyberware / bioware / magic) can still get the bone lacing bonus to body when making damage resistance tests.
Phobos
QUOTE (CradleWorm)
QUOTE (Abbandon)
Ok.† My dude has aluminum bone lacing which gives +2 to body when making damage resistance rolls.†  Would you include that in the condition monitor??

No this +2 would not be added to your body when computing your condition monitor. This +2 makes it more difficult to hurt you, but does not allow you to take more damage.

Only modifications to your actual body increase your condition monitor. This is also important for another reason, this +2 does not count towards your racial max for body.

So for example a human character with a body of 9 (modified by some other cyberware / bioware / magic) can still get the bone lacing bonus to body when making damage resistance tests.

Well, actually ... not.

His 'Body for the purposes of damage resistence' is capped at racial max (9 in this case) as any other application of body would.
Combinations would only make sense if they were 'Body for resisting disease and toxins' or 'Body used for active skills' (not that I could remember any cyberware or bioware item except Suprathyroid Gland doing that)
If you want more dice than 9, be another metatype or go for armour.
2bit
QUOTE (Abbandon)
Ok. My dude has aluminum bone lacing which gives +2 to body when making damage resistance rolls. Would you include that in the condition monitor??

This wording causes headaches. I really wish it didn't say "adds X to Body...".
It SHOULD say "provides X additional dice to damage resistance tests made with Body". But since it says it "adds to Body", it's subject to the 1.5X max rating rule... So, if you're a human with Body 6, a suprathyroid gland (+1 Body) and Titanium Bone Lacing (+3 Body), you can still only roll 9 dice for Body damage resistance tests.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Dumpshock Forums © 2001-2012