And so morally questionable that even the people who make cyberzombies would think for a while before trying it.

In other words, enjoy your AZT-brand mail-order bride. Pay not attention to the literal AZT brand on her ankle.

Why not do something really different. Make Marty the Droid, and make Eve the runner. That way, Eve can make Marty the universal male ideal, and then frustrate him until his batteries wear out.

Ah... the recurrant but seldom explicit belief that sex is in some way causing harm to a woman. Oh, Patriarchal Judeo-Christian-Islamic morality, how you have fucked up our society.

(n.b. not directed at hyzmarca. General statement and observation).

Not sure what you meant by that.

Let me clarify what I said. It would be more interesting to see how a woman would treat the ideal male than to see how a woman would play the ideal male.

Assuming you are female, I think you should create a female character who builds a male droid. The reverse has been done to death already. You can name her Marty, and him Adam.

In this case it may be aproperiate.

1)Marty has created eve with his own two hands. She is basically his daughter.
2) Eve cannot be more than a few years old. She is probably only a few moths old. She lacks experience and knowledge of the world. Her capacity to give informed consent is questionable at best.
3) Eve is dependant on Marty. He provides her with clothing, shelter, electricity, love, and everything else she needs. Without him she wouldn't be able to survive for long.


Now, I won't make the outrageous claim that it is always morally wrong for a man to have sex with his practically newborn daughter. However, I would suggest that it raises some ethical concerns in most cases.

In this case, the morallity of the act depends very much on how marty sees Eve. If she is property to be used and abused then so be it. If she is a unique being that deserves respect and basic human rights then she should be treated the exact same way Marty would treat any human being in her position.

hilarity.

You misspelled "the chrome off a trailer hitch."

Whilst I'd pick you up on 'morality depending on how Marty sees things' rather than how things actually are, I take your general point. The question is how much Eve is a person and how much she is a sophisticated simulation.

If she doesn't have feelings or desires, then we can dispense with all the questions of harm and informed consent. Our only remaining moral question is whether Marty is harming himself with this advanced case of social withdrawal or if he will later harm real women, perhaps emotionally in a relationship, by not being able to treat them as real people or having odd expectations.

If we regard Eve as a real person (even partially), then we do have to consider the issues of dependence and informed consent. Though many would disagree (including every girl who's ever dated someone because they're rich), I do think it's wrong to trade sex for material advantage (shelter, money, whatever). But remember that Marty has set the parameters on what Eve wants. If sex is a pleasant activity that she desires, then is it morally wrong to withold it from her? After all, she has no cultural values instilled to consider it wrong. She may consider it one of the things he provides in exactly the same way he provides entertainment, electricity and shelter.

All this is irrlelevant for now though, as Marty is clearly a very gentle guy that really wants a girlfriend and some tenderness rather than a sexbot. Which is nice. But he is trying to avoid facing up to the fact that real girls will hurt him. And the closer he makes Eve to a real girl, the more he risks that happening. The painful parts Marty will face are when he needs to help Eve progress, which means reprogramming her to some extent. That will really drive home the lie to him. Little things, like making her enjoy a massage or cuddle. They all have to be programmed in. I can picture him doing that in a determined "I'm not thinking about what I'm doing" sort of way, trying to get back to the self-deception afterwards.

A lot depends on how much self-insight Marty possesses. He's clearly very intelligent, but that doesn't necessarily make it easier to overcome his shyness or loneliness. Does he view Eve as someone that will help him eventually overcome these issues or is he retreating deeper into his isolation through her. If it were the former, one possibility would be to hire an actress (always plenty about) to rig in Eve some nights to add a little progression or reality to her. The actress would know how Eve normally behaves and just enhance that, little by little. It could be an easy and confidential paying job for a young drama student, or a slightly older part-time actress. It could even lead on to real romance, just possibly. There would definitely be plot hooks.

Just some thoughts,

-K.

Could you taste the hint of sarcasm?

It was just a hint, of course. In the infinite space that is science fiction/fantasy there are many cases in which such an act would be morally righteous by contemporary standards. If the youngster is programmed to self-destruct without regular sex then having sex with her would certainly be moral. This is especially true if she is powered by a fusion reactor that possesses several megatons worth of explosive potential when overloaded.

Since Fangirl made it rather clear that Marty will be restaining himself, this is sort of off topic.

I would think that Marty would set Eve's basic personality and then let her grow without limits. If he were sensitive to her needs then he wouldn't try to reprogram her. Doing so is an act of utter selfishness. I'd also assume that he would try to program simulated personality traits instead of undeniable directives. The the utter failure Asimov's Three Laws of Robots in That Thou Art Mindful of Him expresses the most obvious dangers of unbreakable directives. It is also possible to think one's way around them given enough time and brainpower. It is impossible to think around one's actual feelings.

I don't see that Marty would have any need to reprogram Eve for her own benefit. I presume that she would be a 'learning machine' able to absorb new knowledge through experience and adapt herself to new situations. As such, she would be constantly reprograming herself without need for Marty's direct intervention.

The very nature of Eve's mental limitations presents interesting roleplaying opertunities. Is she 'just a robot' limited by her programing or could she evolve a type of sentience not unlike SR's canon AIs? Could she ever choose to leave Marty or will she stay by his side forever without any real choice? If could she choose to use violence to protect Marty or would her programed docility cause her to freeze in such a situation? Could she ever disobey Marty? Could she ever choose to sacrifice her existance for a cause and know fully what doing so would mean?

Well both of our ideas make sense based on our personal assumptions, but those assumptions differ. I don't see this advanced level of AI as possible in the Shadowrun setting on the scale of a hacker and his robot.

Eve learning facts and acquiring knowledge, okay. Pilots are quite sophisticated now. But you're talking psychological development and changes in desires, aims and values. That's a whole different level. Not saying that the setting can't play that way, but it's too far for me. Besides, I like the role-playing frisson between Marty's artificial girl and the real ones that are out there. When is he going to make (or be forced to make) a choice between someone real and his fantasies? What if people are in danger and he can only help so many. Will he save the girl in the apartment next door from the burning building, or will he drag out Eve?

---

On the subject of fusion-powered girls exploding without regular sex, quite frankly that's all we (men) need.
"What were you doing with that guy."
"Aw, don't be mad at me, honey. I had to sleep with the cute guy or thousands of innocent people would have died."

And I get stalked enough by the weird ones as it is.
"Sleep with me or I'll blow up!"

Yeah, nice one, hyz! They'll all be getting them fitted now.

I think these points fail to recognize a very important point: Eve is a fucking robot. "She" isn't a "she" at all, but an "it", a piece of equipment made to resemble the human form. Its ability to give informed consent is irrelevant. You don't need a hydraulic press's consent to, uh, crush a Terminator. And you could just as easily program out any reservations or negative responses by the equipment. Rendering the whole point moot.