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maeel
ok, everybody knows the problem:
according to the book a hacker roles hacking plus program and can default to logic if he ain't got the skill.
the crap about this is that most players would rather build a hacker without hacking but a high logic.
now, my houserule for this whole thing is this:

A hacker roles logic + hacking/program (whichever is lower).
The reason behind this is this, if u r a crack in computer graphic design and u have to use paintbrush, u r screwed, because u r limited by the program.
on the the other side, if u got photoshop, but don't know shit about how to use it properly, u will also end up with a crappy result.

this way all three values are included into the equation.


as for technomancers:
they should role Logic + hacking + complex form.
this is only fair because TMs are a) giant karma sinks and b) should have a real edge over normal hackers, which they don't ATM.

what do you think about this?
comments? suggestions?
Aaron
Meh. I like the system the way it is. You can have your hacker/somethings and your something/hackers. And yes, you can substitute "technomancer" for "hacker" in the previous sentence. There's nothing that says a technomancer has to be all-out technomancer all the way, baby, woo.

And there is a lot of precedent for people with no skill using programs to "hack," e.g. script kiddies.

Oh, and it's Logic - 1. (Boyle et al. 110)
maeel
QUOTE (Aaron)

And there is a lot of precedent for people with no skill using programs to "hack," e.g. script kiddies.


right and as the definition u posted there also states, there tools are known, so they are no real threat.. nyahnyah.gif
Jaid
technomancers do have things to give them an edge over hackers.

they're called sprites. and they are so disgustingly good it's not even funny.

on a side note, i personally prefer the logic + skill, limited successes by program rating method of houseruling.
Aaron
QUOTE (maeel)
right and as the definition u posted there also states, there tools are known, so they are no real threat.. nyahnyah.gif

Riiight. (translation for the sarcasm-impaired: Not right.)

It's true that some of the exploits that hacking programs use are known. In Shadowrun, 4th Edition, the designers recognized this fact and even went as far as to rate this knowledge with a number. They called it Firewall. You could even argue that some of this information also goes into the Analyze program, since it's Analyze + Firewall that detects intrusion attempts.
Lagomorph
I second the ruling Jaid mentioned, as it falls inline better with the other mechanics of the system.
Aaron
QUOTE (Jaid)
on a side note, i personally prefer the logic + skill, limited successes by program rating method of houseruling.

I'll bite. How would hacking tests work? How about the Analyze + Firewall to counter exploit attacks? Or would that switch to System + Firewall limited by Analyze? What about machines that aren't running Analyze at all, are they wide open to Exploit attacks?

There's more, but I don't think I'd convince anyone who agrees with you. So, go ahead and use it. You'll find the inconsistencies and problems on your own. Then you'll probably house-rule that. Just make sure you write everything down.
maeel
@ Lagomorph: agreed!

Still, i think technomancers should be a bit more powerful, especially if u consider that a level 5 complexform cost 5GP while a lvl5 hacking program only cost 1GP, not to mention standard programs.

i agree that they got some bonuses for being technomancer, but a hacker with comparable capabilties is much cheaper... or better a hacker that cost the same as a technomancer,is much more powerful.
ShadowDragon
QUOTE (Jaid)
on a side note, i personally prefer the logic + skill, limited successes by program rating method of houseruling.

That's what I use also.
hobgoblin
hrmf, whats all this bruhaha about defaulting?

it hands you logic-1 dice. enjoy...
maeel
QUOTE (hobgoblin)
hrmf, whats all this bruhaha about defaulting?

it hands you logic-1 dice. enjoy...

right, and with logic 6 and cerebral booster lvl 2 u simply bypass the skillcap plus saving 16bp, congratulations and good morning dr. munchkin.

(i did not mean to call someone specific a munchkin here!)
Magus
I thought it was just the skill rating if you did not the program. Don't have my book handy at the moment. But I am sure it said it is skill + program. And Logic could not be defaulted to.
Phobos
In theory (that is, by the RAW), you CAN default on hacking - but it would be the most stupid choice you could make, as you would only roll LOG-1 instead of Hacking+Program

QUOTE ("RAW @ pg. 54")
Characters who default use only the linked attribute in their dice pool. Additionally, they suffer a 1 dice pool modifier.


Hacking 1 + Rating 5 Programs = 6 Dice
Defaulting on Logic 5(7) = 6 Dice

Whew ... I'm impressed.
Perfect Min-Max Build. Really.

Or did I miss something ?
Jaid
QUOTE (Aaron)
QUOTE (Jaid @ Jul 3 2006, 10:44 AM)
on a side note, i personally prefer the logic + skill, limited successes by program rating method of houseruling.

I'll bite. How would hacking tests work? How about the Analyze + Firewall to counter exploit attacks? Or would that switch to System + Firewall limited by Analyze? What about machines that aren't running Analyze at all, are they wide open to Exploit attacks?

There's more, but I don't think I'd convince anyone who agrees with you. So, go ahead and use it. You'll find the inconsistencies and problems on your own. Then you'll probably house-rule that. Just make sure you write everything down.

good question... i would use system + analyse, max successes equal to firewall.

in this particular case, the "program" is firewall, the "attribute" is system (or pilot of course) and the "skill" is analyse, working kinda like an autosoft almost =P
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