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jklst14
With sprites and threading, the technomancer in our group kicked major Hacker ass in the Matrix. He also Submerged and got Overclocking which made him even more powerful.

But then again, being a good technomancer sucked up so many build points that he wasn't very useful in the meat world.

Kyoto Kid
...have one, waiting to play her when there is a suitable mission to participate in. One distinct improvement is that she is not restricted in her physical attibutes as Otaku were which gives a bit more edge in the meat world and like Magic, Resonance does not fall under the 50% BP limit at chargen.

Also, most of the "senseware" as well as the Smartlink can now be purchased without implantation which also adds a bit of an edge. For example Akima has +3 to both hearing and visual perception as well as Spatial Recognition, Select Sound Filter, Flare comp, Low light vision, & of course Smartlink with the Skinlink option. Granted, she's no front line combatant, but when as an Otaku before the crash, combat was something to stay far far away from (usually in a climate controlled heavily fortified bunker)

Yeah speed in the meat world suffers, but that's why the Troll sam is there, excellent cover.
X-Kalibur
It's also what synaptic accelerators are for. You only lose 1 res (.5 ess) for an extra IP and Reaction. Then you can even throw in some logic boosters for good measure to raise your system (provided you have enough resonance that it doesn't cap out)
ornot
QUOTE (Abschalten)
There are enough differences to set the hackers and technomancers apart from each other.  There's far more there than just "fluff."

Yes, there are differences between a TM and a hacker, but my point about fluff was that there is effectively no difference between the way a TM rolls for a hacking test and the way a hacker rolls for a hacking test. Both roll hacking + program/complex form, even though one is interacting with the matrix in a normal manner through his/her comlink and the other is doing something wiggy with their brain. Although the two types use the same skill groups (cracking and electronics) it specifically states that, from an in-game perspective, the two are completely different (p.233 Technomancer Skills).

In the same way, a Street Sam and a Phys Ad use the same mechanics to punch or shoot things (although in that case they probably punch and shoot things in the same way, just with different augmentations).
Aaron
QUOTE (ornot)
Yes, there are differences between a TM and a hacker, but my point about fluff was that there is effectively no difference between the way a TM rolls for a hacking test and the way a hacker rolls for a hacking test. Both roll hacking + program/complex form, even though one is interacting with the matrix in a normal manner through his/her comlink and the other is doing something wiggy with their brain. Although the two types use the same skill groups (cracking and electronics) it specifically states that, from an in-game perspective, the two are completely different (p.233 Technomancer Skills).

Well, sure. It's true that the hacker and the technomancer are using completely different techniques, but it's the same on the other end. It's the same Matrix.

Let's say you have two TA's in college. One is teaching group theory (math), and the other is teaching dance. They're both not only using different skills, but accessing different parts of their brains. But they both still roll Charisma + Instruction.
Kyoto Kid
QUOTE (X-Kalibur)
It's also what synaptic accelerators are for. You only lose 1 res (.5 ess) for an extra IP and Reaction. Then you can even throw in some logic boosters for good measure to raise your system (provided you have enough resonance that it doesn't cap out)

...yeah, but that's 16 BP which is another skill at rating 4 (like Pistols or Automatics perhaps). Then you are also burning another 10 BPs (25 BPs if you started with a resonance of 6) for the one rating point that gets reduced by essence loss. Nah, I'd rather take my one shot & dive behind the Troll sam
X-Kalibur
I never said at chargen.
Xenith
We have a technomancer. He's sneaky awesome. I pity the NPC that takes his wimpy commlink from him and thinks him pacified.
ornot
@Aaron: My comment about TMs and hackers doing the same thing via the rules was really just a response to JRayjokers query for a side by side comparison of a hacker and a TM doing the same task on page 2 of this thread. I read that as a request for a mechanical example of, say, a hacker and a TM both trying to exploit a system for access, which is in fact handled in exactly the same way.

Just wanted to clear that up once and for all.
iron_ic
I played a TM/Face. He does'nt need fighting skills because anybody else in the group's playing a sam/... - character.

EDIT: No need to say that he's awesome in the matrix (esp. his sprites).
Wiseman
Our group has a deepweed addicted human technomancer who's extremely lazy (and eats most of our junk food).

He's exceptionally good at what he does, though he tends to complain of any physical activity. sleepy.gif
Kyoto Kid
QUOTE (X-Kalibur)
I never said at chargen.

...yeah but the Karma cost to increase Resonance still doesn't make it worth it even if you don't need to go through Submersion. I definitely wouldn't want to burn 18 hard earned Karma (= average of 3 runs) in addition to the 80K (6 or more runs earnings) for one additional IP. Afterwards, in order to "recover" that 6th point of resonance she would need to invest another 34 Karma (Submersion + Attribute increase). To me, that is diminishing returns.
AngelWuff
I'm a bit ambivalent, but my first game has one. will see how they run. I'm a tad mixed... seems the big problem is how do they connect wireless with a brain. hmm... thinking of treating them as a sort of SURGE thing, perhaps earlier but bloomed a bit more, and wireless just is more common now... and these are the same as otaku (so ignoring all that old otaku fluff). it does feel a lot that SR4 almost should have just started over with the background... but just my opinion
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