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JonathanC
Seriously, none of the Shadowrun novels I've seen have metahumans in anything but a (usually forgettable) support role. The stars of the novels are always humans, for the most part. Elves get attention, at least, but what about orks and trolls? I loved the fiction at the start of SR3, narrated by the troll street sam who lost his good friend Flash on a botched run. I liked the ork in SR4 who just got out of prison and was re-introduced to the new, flashier matrix.

And while I'm on the subject, how come so many of the illustrations make them look like such retards? I mean, the Mercenary illustration from SR3 is cool, as are the Bounty Hunter and Enforcer from SR4, but half of the troll and ork pictures I see just look like a mass of boils and warts. And the art from the original SR book just made them look even worse. The description just says that Trolls have hard, bony deposits...that could mean anything from scale-like skin texture to, well, bony looking boils and warts. But orks are just described as being taller and heavier than humans...nothing saying they have to look like a burn ward got mashed together into one person. What gives? nyahnyah.gif
LilithTaveril
There's a top-secret drop bear conspiracy to indoctrinate humans against metahumans so that the drop bears can cause fighting between the two sides. Then, while everyone's busy, the drop bears and the IE masters invade and conquer everything.
SL James
Because trogs suck.
JonathanC
Well, that answers that question. Seems kinda silly to have races in a game that hardly anybody plays though (I keep hearing about the 'theoretical troll', but I've yet to see one).
SL James
Hence the term, "theoretical."
JonathanC
Why do you hate trolls so much? Just curious.


Is it purely a game mechanics thing? I admit that the size issue is a bit annoying, and I've always felt that they kinda get the shaft mechanics-wise, especially in SR3, where you had to pay out of the ass if you didn't want to be an antisocial drooling retard.
SL James
I'm a racist asshole.
JonathanC
Wait, I thought you were an elitist asshole. wink.gif
mfb
well, what's a racist?
JonathanC
So the short version of this is that nobody likes orks and trolls except for me, and even I'm kinda like "dude, what's up with all the festering boils?"
SL James
A genetic or ethnic elitist? wink.gif

I hate dwarves, too. And orks (trogs being shorthand for both). But, yeah, I hate trolls. Never played one. Never will.
Gabriel (Argus #2323)
Orks and Trolls rock. To hell with playing a pointy-eared underwear model, I wanna play a big mean trog. It's alot of fun to play any kind of meta, whether it be the dumb trog who can barely speak english (but can lob grenades and shatter spines like a pro) or the a-typical anti-stereotype intellectual ork (which I actually played, good times). Even everything in between, the "average" tusker. I just like to play more orks because I know there are more of them in SR than are usually represented in gaming groups. I like having tusks, and I like having more muscle and bone than most humans. My "intellectual" ork had some basic martial arts training and could kick serious hoop.
The Stainless Steel Rat
heh heh...

You said hoop.
JonathanC
Whoa...you mean somebody else besides me read The Stainless Steel Rat as a kid? I feel so...at home.

Back on topic...did anyone else find it weird that suddenly we've got a somewhat hot (well, I thought she was hot) ork in SR4 with the Gunslinger adept? I mean, she doesn't even have the Human Looking quality, so that's just...an ork. No boils, no warts, no weird ass crap on her, just tusks, and a larger than normal frame. Is this how you describe orks in your game, or do you beat them all with the ugly stick?
SL James
There's also an Ork-Poser Quality in SR4. Go figure.
JonathanC
Sure, but the Gunslinger Adept doesn't have that either. So...non-fugly orks are now canon?
SL James
Yeah. Orks started to become cool like a year or two ago.
The Stainless Steel Rat
QUOTE (JonathanC)
Whoa...you mean somebody else besides me read The Stainless Steel Rat as a kid? I feel so...at home.

Yeah, it's been a long time, but one quote from the novels stuck with me and always seemed apropos of Shadowrun:

QUOTE (Harry Harrison in The Stainless Steel Rat)
Rats thrived in the old world, but to survive in a stainless steel world it takes a stainless steel rat.


@ Topic:

I like to throw a lot of Trog NPC's in the games I run, but as a player I almost always play a human, occasionally an elf. I have a troll all done up and ready to play though, and plan to when my buddy gets back from the service in February to start a new campaign.
Adarael
For the record, I maintain that Orks have ALWAYS been cool. I realize I'm in the minority, though.

Also, I read The Stainless Steel Rat books, too. Because they're ridiculous and over the top in the best way.

One of the 1st or 2nd edition books had a color picture of an ork in it which totally managed to convey 'pretty boy ork' with 100% perfect clarity. I've been looking for the picture ever since, because he was just a dashing guy. Anybody know where to find this guy?
(And no, it wasn't Junior from Dreamchipper, but he's a close second.)

I like all the metatypes. I just like to do unusual things with the way they're 'supposed to be played', though. For example, the next characters I wanna play, by Metatype:

Ork: High(er) Charisma guy left SINless in the wake of Crash 2.0, and unable to obtain a new SIN due to his race. Consequently took up shadowrunning as a way to get up from his situation. Sends half of what he makes as a runner back to his family so they can do alright for themselves. Dresses primarily in a suspenders-dress shirt-and-slacks sort of way. Singer in a local 'Thrash-Up' band - Thrash-Up being one of the genres of 2070s music I invented for my world: thrash-punk that generally remains upbeat while acknowledging the world' is fucked up. Think of it as optimistic electro-thrash.
Primary specialties: Many contacts, decent hand-to-hand abilities, high amount of neuralware and sense enhancements.

Troll: Tongan surfer, left for the UCAS to escape the political chaos of the south pacific. Besides, being a runner just plain pays more than anything in the south pacific, and you don't need a degree to do it. Huge guy in all regards. Very emotionally balanced, and incredibly hard to make angry - makes more and more (and worse) jokes the angrier he gets, until he just plain tears someone apart with his hands.
Specialties: endurance, tracking skills, breaking things. I.E. 'being a troll'.
Ophis
QUOTE (Adarael)
One of the 1st or 2nd edition books had a color picture of an ork in it which totally managed to convey 'pretty boy ork' with 100% perfect clarity. I've been looking for the picture ever since, because he was just a dashing guy. Anybody know where to find this guy?
(And no, it wasn't Junior from Dreamchipper, but he's a close second.)

That picture is the awfully statted ork samurai in Street Sanurai catalogue(worst archetype builds ever).

I would play any of the races in SR apart from dwarves, as I have no interest in playing a bearded stunty.
Adarael
Nah, it's not SSC either. I've checked multiple editions, and they all have the same picture - not the right one.

I almost wanna say it's from the old NAN books, or maybe the Neo-Anarchist's Guide to Real Life or something. It's not in anything I've ever seen again, alas.
Ophis
ah no idea then...
HappyDaze
QUOTE
I would play any of the races in SR apart from dwarves, as I have no interest in playing a bearded stunty.

This is the more common line of thinking where I'm from. Humans and Elves are pretty common, but a handful of players stick with Orks and (especially) Trolls exclusively. Dwarves just get left behind and ignored... frown.gif

BTW, I've always played that Orks look more like the Gunslinger Adept thsn the horrible goblins from the Hobbit animation and I like my Trolls looking more like the cover-character from Runner Havens than the Trolls from the old Laubenstein artwork. All of the races deserve to look cool, so I'm hoping to see a cool looking Dwarf in the future - hopefully one that's clean-shaven.
Herald of Verjigorm
Dwarves are fun, even better if you do something to get around their decreased movement speed like retractable skates or a levitate spell.
zeb.hillard
QUOTE (JonathanC)
Seriously, none of the Shadowrun novels I've seen have metahumans in anything but a (usually forgettable) support role. The stars of the novels are always humans, for the most part. Elves get attention, at least, but what about orks and trolls? I loved the fiction at the start of SR3, narrated by the troll street sam who lost his good friend Flash on a botched run. I liked the ork in SR4 who just got out of prison and was re-introduced to the new, flashier matrix.

It's not a new book by any shot, but Never Deal With an Elf had one of the best orks I've ever ready about in it. Karm (I know, I'm misspelling his name horribly), who was a friend of Dodger, Ghost-Who-Walks-Inside, and Sally Tsung. Might be worth picking up sometime if you don't have it.
Dog
Kham, I think.
And the pretty-boy orc was perhaps one of the models from the ads in NAGRL. There was also an orc butler in a tux in London Sourcebook, but he was still green and warty, I think.
I love to play orcs, I like the underdog-ness of them, and the fact that they are a budding culture of their own. Trolls actually come up more frequently than orcs among my players. Strange.
mmu1
I like dwarves. Though my mental image of them has always been considerably different than what the SR art tends to convey. (heads that are normal-sized in proportion to their torsoes and don't look like variations on Gerard Depardieu with a bushy beard, legs that aren't as absurdly short, fingers that don't look like they're half as thick as they're long)

I actually like the D&D 3rd edition dwarves (Yeah, yeah. Boo, hiss... Shut up.smile.gif), because instead of making them look like malformed humans, they actually made them look like a different species.
Snow_Fox
Streets of Blood had 3 main characters. One was a female ork. and I think the mage was an Elf.

And early book, I think it was called Changeling had a troll as the main character. A youth caught up in the early phases of goblinization and goes on to be a mob enforcer.
Jrayjoker
QUOTE (Snow_Fox)
Streets of Blood had 3 main characters. One was a female ork. and I think the mage was an Elf.

And early book, I think it was called Changeling had a troll as the main character. A youth caught up in the early phases of goblinization and goes on to be a mob enforcer.

And one of the premiere metageneticists in the world, self taught.

[ Spoiler ]
Homme-qui-rigole
IRC, Just Compensation feature a ork rigger/decker as the main character. Then, in Changeling, the main character is a very bright teenager Troll nicknamed "The Profezzur" who become hitman for the yak
JongWK
QUOTE (SL James)
Yeah. Orks started to become cool like a year or two ago.

ork.gif
Smiley
QUOTE (zeb.hillard)
QUOTE (JonathanC @ Aug 11 2006, 12:07 AM)
Seriously, none of the Shadowrun novels I've seen have metahumans in anything but a (usually forgettable) support role. The stars of the novels are always humans, for the most part. Elves get attention, at least, but what about orks and trolls? I loved the fiction at the start of SR3, narrated by the troll street sam who lost his good friend Flash on a botched run. I liked the ork in SR4 who just got out of prison and was re-introduced to the new, flashier matrix.

It's not a new book by any shot, but Never Deal With an Elf had one of the best orks I've ever ready about in it. Karm (I know, I'm misspelling his name horribly), who was a friend of Dodger, Ghost-Who-Walks-Inside, and Sally Tsung. Might be worth picking up sometime if you don't have it.

I think it's Never Trust an Elf, if I remember correctly. The ork's name was Kham, though.

It was the first SR book I ever owned.
Smiley
Yep.
zeb.hillard
QUOTE (Smiley)
Yep.

The fourth for me, right after the Secrets of Power trilogy.
JonathanC
QUOTE (HappyDaze)
QUOTE
I would play any of the races in SR apart from dwarves, as I have no interest in playing a bearded stunty.

This is the more common line of thinking where I'm from. Humans and Elves are pretty common, but a handful of players stick with Orks and (especially) Trolls exclusively. Dwarves just get left behind and ignored... frown.gif

BTW, I've always played that Orks look more like the Gunslinger Adept thsn the horrible goblins from the Hobbit animation and I like my Trolls looking more like the cover-character from Runner Havens than the Trolls from the old Laubenstein artwork. All of the races deserve to look cool, so I'm hoping to see a cool looking Dwarf in the future - hopefully one that's clean-shaven.

Personally, I thought the Eco-Shaman from SR3 and the Face from SR4 were both cool looking dwarves. I also figured dwarves for being the perfect race for mage munchkins (especially in SR3) due to their Willpower and physical stat bonuses.
Shrike30
Us orks've always been th' shit. All'y'all breeders are jes figgerin' this out now? ork.gif
JonathanC
QUOTE (Shrike30)
Us orks've always been th' shit. All'y'all breeders are jes figgerin' this out now? ork.gif

Kind of ironic for an ork to be calling humans "breeders", given how rapidly orks reproduce. nyahnyah.gif
PBTHHHHT
All the more reason for humans to join Humanis, all trogs are a threat to normal folks. wink.gif
Chrome Shadow
QUOTE (JonathanC)
Seriously, none of the Shadowrun novels I've seen have metahumans in anything but a (usually forgettable) support role. The stars of the novels are always humans, for the most part. Elves get attention, at least, but what about orks and trolls? I loved the fiction at the start of SR3, narrated by the troll street sam who lost his good friend Flash on a botched run. I liked the ork in SR4 who just got out of prison and was re-introduced to the new, flashier matrix.

And while I'm on the subject, how come so many of the illustrations make them look like such retards? I mean, the Mercenary illustration from SR3 is cool, as are the Bounty Hunter and Enforcer from SR4, but half of the troll and ork pictures I see just look like a mass of boils and warts. And the art from the original SR book just made them look even worse. The description just says that Trolls have hard, bony deposits...that could mean anything from scale-like skin texture to, well, bony looking boils and warts. But orks are just described as being taller and heavier than humans...nothing saying they have to look like a burn ward got mashed together into one person. What gives? nyahnyah.gif

Changelling had the Profezzor (troll), Never Thrust an Elf had Kham (ork), Preying For Keeps and Headhunters had Duran (ork) and Elvis (troll), The Lucifer Deck had an ork girl (I think), etc... Those were great characters, specially Duran and Kham. I know I'm forgitten a lot more...

And the Gun Adept of SR4 has the Look Human Quality.

The only metatype I don't play is the dwarfs. I don't like Snow White and all that...

JonathanC
QUOTE (Chrome Shadow)
QUOTE (JonathanC @ Aug 11 2006, 12:07 AM)
Seriously, none of the Shadowrun novels I've seen have metahumans in anything but a (usually forgettable) support role. The stars of the novels are always humans, for the most part. Elves get attention, at least, but what about orks and trolls? I loved the fiction at the start of SR3, narrated by the troll street sam who lost his good friend Flash on a botched run. I liked the ork in SR4 who just got out of prison and was re-introduced to the new, flashier matrix.

And while I'm on the subject, how come so many of the illustrations make them look like such retards? I mean, the Mercenary illustration from SR3 is cool, as are the Bounty Hunter and Enforcer from SR4, but half of the troll and ork pictures I see just look like a mass of boils and warts. And the art from the original SR book just made them look even worse. The description just says that Trolls have hard, bony deposits...that could mean anything from scale-like skin texture to, well, bony looking boils and warts. But orks are just described as being taller and heavier than humans...nothing saying they have to look like a burn ward got mashed together into one person. What gives?  nyahnyah.gif

Changelling had the Profezzor (troll), Never Thrust an Elf had Kham (ork), Preying For Keeps and Headhunters had Duran (ork) and Elvis (troll), The Lucifer Deck had an ork girl (I think), etc... Those were great characters, specially Duran and Kham. I know I'm forgitten a lot more...

And the Gun Adept of SR4 has the Look Human Quality.

The only metatype I don't play is the dwarfs. I don't like Snow White and all that...

No, the Gungslinger Adept does not have the Human Looking quality. I have the more recent printing of the book, and I also checked the errata. Not in there. smile.gif
Shrike30
QUOTE (Chrome Shadow @ Aug 11 2006, 11:41 AM)
Never Thrust an Elf had Kham (ork),

But, but... so much of SR canon makes that title counterintuitive... ork.gif
Jrayjoker
Heh, you said "thrust!"
ronin3338
QUOTE (Adarael @ Aug 11 2006, 03:37 AM)
One of the 1st or 2nd edition books had a color picture of an ork in it which totally managed to convey 'pretty boy ork' with 100% perfect clarity. I've been looking for the picture ever since, because he was just a dashing guy. Anybody know where to find this guy?
(And no, it wasn't Junior from Dreamchipper, but he's a close second.)


I think that was from the 2E Contacts, it was a new archetype, Ork Bodyguard?

If it's the one you're thinking of, he had long, straight hair, a suit, and small tusks with very little else of the typical ork features.
It was a b/w pic though, I don't remember a color one.
JonathanC
QUOTE (Chrome Shadow)
QUOTE (JonathanC @ Aug 11 2006, 12:07 AM)
Seriously, none of the Shadowrun novels I've seen have metahumans in anything but a (usually forgettable) support role. The stars of the novels are always humans, for the most part. Elves get attention, at least, but what about orks and trolls? I loved the fiction at the start of SR3, narrated by the troll street sam who lost his good friend Flash on a botched run. I liked the ork in SR4 who just got out of prison and was re-introduced to the new, flashier matrix.

And while I'm on the subject, how come so many of the illustrations make them look like such retards? I mean, the Mercenary illustration from SR3 is cool, as are the Bounty Hunter and Enforcer from SR4, but half of the troll and ork pictures I see just look like a mass of boils and warts. And the art from the original SR book just made them look even worse. The description just says that Trolls have hard, bony deposits...that could mean anything from scale-like skin texture to, well, bony looking boils and warts. But orks are just described as being taller and heavier than humans...nothing saying they have to look like a burn ward got mashed together into one person. What gives?  nyahnyah.gif

Changelling had the Profezzor (troll), Never Thrust an Elf had Kham (ork), Preying For Keeps and Headhunters had Duran (ork) and Elvis (troll), The Lucifer Deck had an ork girl (I think), etc... Those were great characters, specially Duran and Kham. I know I'm forgitten a lot more...

And the Gun Adept of SR4 has the Look Human Quality.

The only metatype I don't play is the dwarfs. I don't like Snow White and all that...

I'm just saying, I haven't read an SR novel (or seen one, personally) where a non-human was the main, starring character. Apparently they do exist, but in general they tend to fill out the supporting cast, even if they are pretty cool (horrible name aside, I thought G-Dogg seemed cool in the recent Kenson books). I'd just like to see more SR fiction from the ork/troll/dwarf point of view.
hyzmarca
In general, ork chicks are hot. It's the tusks. There's just something about a chick with tusks. Trolls could be pretty sexy, too. They've got tusks and horns. Calcium deposits in the dermis can be sexy, too. The only problem is that I've never seen an official image of an sexy troll woman with feminine horns and sexy dermal deposits. Now, there was that one piece of Earthdawn fanart posted a while back, but I don't think that would count.
SL James
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
In general, ork chicks are hot. It's the tusks. There's just something about a chick with tusks.

Yeah, who doesn't want a woman who drools?
will_rj
QUOTE (SL James)
Yeah, who doesn't want a woman who drools?

a horny woman who drools, even better smile.gif
hyzmarca
Drool is nature's lubricant. biggrin.gif
PBTHHHHT
What about dwarf ladies then? They're the right height. *insert rimshot*
Dog
Ork chicks look relatively hot because it's RPG art. There's a rule written somewhere that every female in every RPG picture is absolutely smokin' as a default.
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