A few weeks ago I read an article in a Yale medical magazine about how one of the yale staff members was working with people coming back from the war in Iraq with PTSD. The article said that one effect of PTSD is that the combat vet who is still mentally wired for a combat zone may do things like reflexively attack you if your startle him or come out of a bad dream swinging like John Henry.

This is consistient with stories I've heard of Vietnam vets. One person told me the story of his Vietnam vet roomate who had warned everyone living in the house to never startle him. One day the vet was talking on the phone and my friend knocked on the door and entered the room. The door knock "must not have registered" since the vet was on the phone, and the vet spun around with a pistol in his hand which he had apparently always carried on him concealed. The vet claimed that he was very very close to just having blown my friend away.

This sounds a bit like how SR describes wired reflexes as needing a reflex trigger and so on. If a character has wired reflexes that can't be turned off he walks around ready to explode into Init 30 violence very time he's startled.

Therefore, wouldn't it be fun to have an edge that could represent spastic automatic attack PTSD? Here's my open draft:

Spastic Vietnam War PTSD Reflexes

Spastic Vietnam War PTSD Reflexes (SVWPTSDR) mean that a character was never able to mentally rewire himself for peaceful day to day life outside of a combat zone after he'd been living in one for a little too long. This edge adds one dice to the initiative roll of any character who takes it.

The drawback of this edge is that whenever the character is startled by anyone, whenever the character successfully spots someone who is trying to use Stealth to hide, or whenever the character goes to sleep and someone else is also sleeping close enough to be punched, the character must make a Willpower (6) test or else immediately start attacking that person. The character may make a new Willpower (6) test at the end of each combat turn but until he succeeds at this test he will keep blindly attacking his victim even after the victim is dead or incapacitated.

If the character was asleep, is unarmed, or if his Unarmed Combat skill is higher than his Pistols or Edged Weapons skills, he must attack using Unarmed Combat. Otherwise, if the character's Pistols skill is higher than his Edged Weapons Skill or his Unarmed Combat kill, he is required to carry a concealable pistol on his person whenever possible (he should only be unarmed if he was captured and disarmed) and he must attack using that pistol. The same rule applies for Edged Weapons, which requires the character to always carry a concealed blade. If the character does not have any of the skills, this rule applies for whichever type of attack would give him the most defaulting dice to roll, with Edged Weapons taking priority over Unarmed Combat in the event of a tie.

If this edge is combined with Adrenaline Rush then both initiative dice the character will be rolling have the potential to "explode". However, the character is forced to always use Adrenaline Rush whenever possible and furthermore the Willpower test required to not reflexively attack described above is "upgraded" to a Willpower (8) test.

SVWPTSDR may also be combined with Wired Reflexes or other reflex enhancers although obviously this excludes combining SVWPTSDR with Adrenaline Rush. In that case SVWPTSDR provides an additional init dice on top of the bonuses the character already accrues from the other reflex enhancers. Even if the character has a reflex trigger, however, the SVWPTSDR bonus can never be turned off and if the character fails his Willpower test and attacks someone he is required to activate his Wired Reflexes as soon as he can in order to make a better attack.

The cost of this edge is 2 points, what with all the drawbacks and all.

It's a good idea, but a little heavy on the excecution. Also, this might end up being a) unbalancing, and b) disruptive, as it gives munchkins an excuse to take another dice and be a general ass.

As I said, this is a good idea. It would be better just as a straight flaw, though. In fact, I'd say that most gunbunny/street sam types would end up with it, in reality.

I don't think requiring them to carry a weapon is appropriate or necessary. The possibility of pulling a gun if they are carrying one (which a shadowrun character often would be) or attacking with their bare hands should be enough of a drawback. And the continuing-until-incapacitated thing is probably overkill: the initial, reflexive burst of violence seems sufficient. I mean, how often does it usually take a PTSD case to realize they're attacking a non-hostile?

I do like this, tho. I'm always on the lookout for ways for non-cybered, non-magic people to up their initiative so they aren't totally ineffectual in combat, and battle-honed PTSD reflexes seems like a good way to do that.

Also, maybe it shouldn't stack with Wired Reflexes/Improved Reflexes, for balance sake.

Adrenaline Surge...

As an Iraqi War veteran and a sufferer of PTSD I can tell you firsthand that it is:

A: No fun.
B: Absolutely detrimental to most personal relationships and one's social life.
and
C: Has no place in an RPG meant for enjoyment/fun.

Yes, people with PTSD will attack a person when startled, or throw blows when awakened suddenly (i have holes in my drywall to prove that) -- and yes, I believe that Wired Reflexes would indeed have these effects on a shadowrunner -- but as far as making rules for applying the effects of this trauma to your PC's, I would recommend you quit while you're ahead.

PTSD in a game should be treated as a roleplay issue, nothing more.

eh. i think the rules presented are a bit rules-heavy, but i don't think the concept is bad. a Will test to keep from reacting is pretty reasonable.

some people enjoy RP'ing unhappy people, for whatever reason, and PTSD sufferers certainly fall under the 'unhappy people' category. maybe they enjoy it because it's gritty. maybe they enjoy it because it helps them deal with their own issues. maybe they enjoy it because Rambo had it, and Rambo is teh awesomes.

Also, treating PTSD as an "Edge" is a ridiculous concept. Any 'edge' gained from freaking out is controlled by muscle memory/training the character already possesses.

If a player wants to RP a PTSD suffering shadowrunner, they'd better be willing to have their favorite character turn a gun on him/herself in a fit of depression. If anything, it's a detrimental flaw.

oh, yeah. my bad. it should definitely be a flaw, not an edge. no bonuses, just badness.

It sounds sort of like the Beserk totem disadvantage. Really, mundane characters should hav ea chance to go beserk and attack the first handy target, too.

I have to say that the idea of using a 'berserker' type edge/flaw and calling it "Traumatic Flashbacks" or something (alla John Rambo, Brock Sampson, etc.) could be fun and useful in game. However, PTSD itself encompasses a lot more than just the freakouts -- one has to deal with discomfort and edginess in crowded or hectic environments, loss of all real emotions except anger/hatred/sadness, bi-polar type mood swings, complete apathy to otherwise serious personal/emotional situations, suicidal tendencies (and not the emo "my life is so dark" kind), inability to sleep, and many, many, many more.

Sure, it may sound glamorous to somebody wanting to play a "dark, gritty, brooding killer" type with a dark past and a dystopic outlook -- but in the real world, it sucks monkey nuts. Besides, every shadowrunner I've ever run with should be suffering horribly from this affliction after any lengthy amount of time in the shadows -- and sucking on their own hollow tipped bullets left and right. If you want to incorporate something as serious as PTSD into a game, water it down and put a twist on it like the example above.

My whole complaint was in the glorification of this very serious illness as something to milk a few more dice from. While my view may be admittedly biased, I still believe it holds water as a counter argument.

Combat Monster, combined with Impulsive, then. Will check to not just randomly jump into any fight you see, and Will checks to break off a fight before you've murdered the sumbitch.

If we're talking beserker rage, then what will we have to simulate the memory lapses that accompany it? If you just want to get close to it, then don't bother with that question.

A: So you're saying there needs to be a "Prostitution" Edge/Flaw? Or are you agreeing that PTSD should be RP'd and not handed out?

B: Last time I checked, prostitution is a profession, not a mental illness derived from traumatic experiences.

B is why i think PTSD is a viable subject for a flaw. most people who simply RP a PTSD sufferer are not going to actually have their characters attempt to hurt any of their teammates/loved ones/whatever. and the ones that will are probably going to use it as an excuse to create random havoc, rather than as a character development tool. if the choice of when to flip out is taken out of the player's hands, it's more likely that you'll actually get decent RP out of it.

maybe not calling the flaw PTSD would work better. PTSD is a whole complex of maladies, and we're talking about a fairly specific behavior. maybe call it "killer instincts" or something?

How about just calling it "berserker rage" and leaving it at that?

Oh, and some would argue that prostitution is a mental illness... typically the same people who argue that sex before marriage is a mental illness...

It should be a flaw and get rid of the 1d6 to intitiave. Its been said before and bears repeating, PTSD involves pre-existing skills and reflexes. Traumatization does not make you magically better.

Except, as anyone who's ever woken up a PSTD sufferer can tell you, it does make them a lot better in some areas at the cost of potentially utterly destroying the rest of their lives.

sorta, but not really. it's not the PTSD making you better in those areas, it's the stuff you had to go through to get PTSD that makes you better. people who suffer PTSD because of non-combat-related stress--rape victims, hostage survivors, abusive relationship survivors, etcetera--don't turn into combat machines. they just don't react well to being startled.

Actually, there is a real-life item that could concievably force the sufferer into prostitution. It's called nymphomania.

Just write up a nymphomania flaw and combine it with a daytime job flaw.

Whatever happened to good roleplaying?

Ditto Kage - No extra dice, just comine adrenaline surge with the drawback of wired reflexes. 2 pt flaw, incompatible with wired reflexes.

i'm really not sure giving it a benefit is wise. for one, it's a flaw--it's not supposed to have an upside. for two, it's not realistic. PTSD doesn't make anyone react to stimuli more quickly, it just dictates what their response will be. certain experiences, such as long periods of time spent in combat, can teach a person to react more quickly, and those experiences can also lead to PTSD--but PTSD in and of itself does not make you react more quickly.

as for just making in an rp thing, sure--that's one way to do it. but to me, those reactions are something the character can't easily control; therefore, i think, they should be something the player can't easily mitigate.

I seem to remember a flaw that gives you pain resistance and unarmed combat bonuses in one very controversial book.

got it handy? i've got a lighter.

I'd add the surge effect as a flavor thing. It adds an average of 3.5 to init 1/6 of the time - less than a point and barely an appretiable benefit IMHO. It would just add to the flavor of the character being "jumpy".

that's the average, though, not the most common result. the character will also occasionally roll 21 on his initiative. it's not a great edge; i've never taken it, even on my non-cybered chars. but it is an edge.

regardless of how good it is, though, it's inaccurate, which is the really damning part to me. jumpy people don't necessarily react faster than anyone else, they just react in certain ways. that's true whether they suffer from PTSD or not.

same here. i mean, i've said it before: i come to the table to play an interesting character, but i also come to the table to 'win' the game--to beat the opposition i'm presented with using the tools my character has on hand. and when it comes down to taking the (ooc) correct action or (ooc) intentionally screwing up because it fits the character... hell, man, i'm only human.

because I can't bring myself to say "I choose to get everyone else's character screwed over and possibly killed because my character can't get it together right now"

But if its a flaw that you choose, its the exact same thing. "Sorry guys, failed to get a 10 on my will check, because of my flaw that I chose, now I have to punch the president" You still screwed the group over you just get to pretend you didn't have a choice in the matter.

If you primary intrest is in not screwing the group then you wouldn't have taken the flaw in the first place.

So, no one here games with the goal of dying in the most Jackassiest way possible. I mean, so long as you accomplish your goal, you win, right. If your goal is an utterly stupid TPK then it isn't easy to lose.

I will admit that I once played a character who did do the "wrong" thing due to mental illness. Of course, this was a D&D character with an absurd amount of GM approved munchiness (The GM really didn't want anyone to ruin his storyline by getting killed off). This particular character, a heavily armed halfling fighter with an addiction to hallucinogenic mushrooms and an elaborate hallucination induced delusion that he was a member of a secret society dedicated to the pursuit of justice and the protection of the innocent.
His attempts to perfect those he perceived to be innocent led to such escapades as attacking a group of castle guards who were fighting off murderous brigands and jumping to the defense of a (evil D&D regenerating) troll who was trying to kill him throughout the encounter.
I must admit, the only reason that character didn't die before the campaign fizzled was a combination of a lenient GM and absurdly low AC. Of course, there was a little bit of metagaming there. I knew that the GM wouldn't smack the character down so I could do some very stupid things without fear of deadly consequences.

But, this wasn't the same as having a PTSD character flip out and attack a team mate. I wasn't intentionally doing stupid things. Rather, I was making the best decisions I could make. I was simply basing those decisions on the hallucinatory fantasy world that only myself and my character were privy to. In essence, I wasn't playing the game badly. I was just playing a completely different game from everyone else (including the GM).
I suspect it would be more difficult for me to pick an opportune time of a PTSD attack because it isn't exactly something an individual can control. Randomly choosing when and where simply doesn't cut it because one can justify using it in situations that don't warrant it and no using it in situations that would. Instead, it should be compulsory and resisted with willpower. It should be something that happens to the character, not something that the player chooses. You can't just say "Rambo is able to use his superior willpower to keep his cool in this situation" without any justification. You need a willpower roll to back you up. If you have a willpower roll, then you need a rule that tells you when to make it.

And even if they have no choice but to have the guy in the group, accidents do happen... like them "accidentally" getting in between your AK-97 on full auto and the enemy.