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innocentsinner
From what I recall, the crash of '64 was eventually followed by the Wireless Matrix, which was coincidentally already in the works. I'm trying to work on my technomancer's story, but I don't completely understand what's going on, as this also happens to be my first foray into the Shadowrun world.

If she was trapped in the Matrix in '64 during the crash, emerging a couple days later with technomancer abilities, how would she find out? How popular is wireless technology at this time, if the Matrix is down? I currently have her finding out her powers by accidentally entering a hospital's private wireless network.

How long did it take for the Wireless Matrix to become set up? Or, more what I'm looking for, what other opportunities to use her powers would she have in the time between? Are there really enough private wireless networks that aren't part of the Matrix proper, or am I just completely off track? Any clarification would be wonderful.
hobgoblin
system failure my be a good book to start with.
Dashifen
while hobgoblin's response was short, it might be your best advice. System Failure is the SR3 book that introduces the crash of '64 and the subsequent rise of the Wireless Matrix.

In short, however, the Wireless Matrix Initiative was already begun prior to the crash. There's some information on it in Shadows of Europe and Shadows of Asia. Specifically, Stokholm (IIRC) and Tokyo were mostly wireless at the time of the crash. Thus, since the system was already somewhat tested, the adoption of the wireless matrix in other portions of the world was relatively quick.

As for her powers in between the old matrix and the adoption of the wireless one, perhaps you could have her suffer frequent headaches (lack of connection) or feel depressed and lonely for no apparent reason. Explain this as the physiological effects of the lack of a matrix for her to interact with and then, once the matrix came online in her area, those symptoms go away. She may not even connect the dots right away, either.

Also, if you want to, System Failure is available in PDF format from the usual SR PDF distributors.
booklord
QUOTE
If she was trapped in the Matrix in '64 during the crash, emerging a couple days later with technomancer abilities, how would she find out? How popular is wireless technology at this time, if the Matrix is down? I currently have her finding out her powers by accidentally entering a hospital's private wireless network.




If the elevator door NEVER closes before you can get there, you might be a technomancer.

If the music song you can't seem to get out of your head, turns out to be playing on the local radio, you might be a technomancer.

If while walking across a street, the street tells you that the expressway is jammed and the fastest way to Yogi's Funpark is by taking Lexington and Fourth then you might be a technomancer.

If when you look at a drone, the words "username and password" pop into your head then you might be a technomancer.

If your dreams are plagued with mystery people popping up and then apologizing for getting the wrong number then you might be a technomancer.
Glayvin34
I tried to play a Technomancer, but found them too limited in RL, but that's just me. spin.gif

Beforehand I was a fundamental noob, and I found System Failure to be a good place to start. However, it's important to note that otaku are fairly different from TMs in that most otaku were created by AI and have some sort of allegiance to that AI. And, of course, if you're otaku you don't get bombarded by the Matrix by walking around. We don't know anything about TM culture, I've even had a few discussions on the board here regarding whether or not there are enough TMs to form a culture or if they even would.

I also read the Renraku Arcology book, it's a good lead-up to System Crash in that it details the creation of otaku by the late great AIs. I always assumed that all TMs have at least some connection or at least knowledge of Deep Resonance, which is a mysterious phenomenon that has no real influence apart from ideology.

I'd say that most TMs figure out their powers by interaction with a set of arrows in a local establishment that is the first to have AR. AR by its nature is on the street. Imagine walking down the street and suddenly perceiving the merchandise of an entire store as you enter the range of the network.

Experiencing traffic from an institutional node might be possible, but you have to realize that then you'd be requiring a Sniffer complex form for your TM. More than likely the first TM experience is with AR spam or advertisements.
innocentsinner
Thanks, I'll pick up System Failure, and also read up a bit more on the differences between the Matrix, the Wired Matrix, AR, etc..
Warmaster Lah
Is there any indication that TM's propagate?

I know that new Otakus keep popping up but are TMs able to do so yet. (Heck is this vague for a reason?)

Shouldn't there still be Otakus around? Would the wireless Matrix inhibit them if they just used a regular Comm for connection?


I am not familiar with the info too much.
Glayvin34
QUOTE (Warmaster Lah)
Is there any indication that TM's propagate?

I know that new Otakus keep popping up but are TMs able to do so yet. (Heck is this vague for a reason?)

Shouldn't there still be Otakus around? Would the wireless Matrix inhibit them if they just used a regular Comm for connection?


I am not familiar with the info too much.

There's just nothing on it yet. I don't know how much fluff will be contained in Emergence, so we'll probably have to wait for Unwired. Right now, TMs aren't much more than rules.
Jaid
runner havens has at least a couple references to TM gangs/tribes that i've noticed... i doubt i could track down the exact references, and i haven't read the whole thing yet, but in any event it seems that at least some TMs form tribes, possibly much like the otaku (though it really is quite hard to say... maybe they're more like initiatory groups).

of course, this would help a whole lot more if i was more familiar with the rules/fluff for otaku... i really feel as if i must have missed the supplement where it's all detailed, because mostly what i know is from stuff like brainscan, arcology shutdown, and threats 2, where they don't seem to explain it so much as just having it in there and you get a vague glimpse of fluff every so often it seems...
Glayvin34
QUOTE (Jaid)
runner havens has at least a couple references to TM gangs/tribes that i've noticed... i doubt i could track down the exact references, and i haven't read the whole thing yet, but in any event it seems that at least some TMs form tribes, possibly much like the otaku (though it really is quite hard to say... maybe they're more like initiatory groups).

of course, this would help a whole lot more if i was more familiar with the rules/fluff for otaku... i really feel as if i must have missed the supplement where it's all detailed, because mostly what i know is from stuff like brainscan, arcology shutdown, and threats 2, where they don't seem to explain it so much as just having it in there and you get a vague glimpse of fluff every so often it seems...

God, LOVE that pdf search feature.

Yeah, there's a Hong Kong gang that's rumored to be TMs. Also, there's that piece by Puck on pages 58-59 detailing some kind of TM monkish ceremony where they are awakening sprites or AI or something. It's deliberately convoluted and Puck's legitimacy as a source is questioned by a lot of posters.
SL James
Gee, I can't imagine why.

August 2065, BTW. In Seattle When the first parts of the wireless Matrix go online in Seattle as part of a beta-testing program.

At least, that's what happened in System Failure.
Conskill
QUOTE (Jaid)
of course, this would help a whole lot more if i was more familiar with the rules/fluff for otaku... i really feel as if i must have missed the supplement where it's all detailed, because mostly what i know is from stuff like brainscan, arcology shutdown, and threats 2, where they don't seem to explain it so much as just having it in there and you get a vague glimpse of fluff every so often it seems...

The first referance to the Otaku came in the Denver sourcebook. Some very interesting tidbits in that book, even if you don't care about the mile high city.

The large write-up, including rules for Otaku PCs, occured in Virtual Realities 2.0. The opening art piece for the chapter (a street urchin floating in the air and reaching out toward a geometric solid, an old and abused teddy bear laying on the ground forgotten behind her) is one of the better bits of SR art.
Warmaster Lah
Regarding my second question. Old School Otaku are still around right?

TM / Otaku interaction. That could prove interesting if they didn't get along.
Samaels Ghost
Didn't the Otaku either become Technos or Fade?
SL James
Well, many TMs are children having been born that way. But it's not entirely certain what happened to Otaku or people with cyber since the sample TM in SR4 has no cyber and yet is an adult (i.e., how the fuck did they turn into a TM?). So, unless the TM process ejected all cyber from their bodies (not completely without precedent in SR fiction for magic to do that to people), it's a crap shoot. For all I know people just collapsed on the street while they were minding their own business, and when they came to they had magic radio brains.
cybertrucker
Wireless was introduced long before 64... currently as I speak i am coming to you live from Verizon's Broadband National Network. Ohh and I have AR goggles I game with. LOL
SL James
Good for you.
Samaels Ghost
Hmmm, it's almost as if real world advances directly affected the imaginary, alternate timeline of SR. How could something like that happen? *snicker*
Conskill
QUOTE (SL James @ Aug 17 2006, 02:51 PM)
Well, many TMs are children having been born that way. But it's not entirely certain what happened to Otaku or people with cyber since the sample TM in SR4 has no cyber and yet is an adult (i.e., how the fuck did they turn into a TM?). So, unless the TM process ejected all cyber from their bodies (not completely without precedent in SR fiction for magic to do that to people), it's a crap shoot. For all I know people just collapsed on the street while they were minding their own business, and when they came to they had magic radio brains.

Some of the folks that were trapped in the Boston Stock Exchange walked away with Technomantic powers. In fact, the intro fiction to the Wireless World section of the Holy Book refers to this. Why someone without cyber didn't just get their trodes pulled off in those cases is anyone's guess.

Also keep in mind the time leap. It is entirely possible for the "first generation" Otaku (or those with untapped Otaku talent, assuming both occur at the same time) to be adults now. Even some Otaku that didn't Fade would now be over 21.

I'm inclined to believe the talent for Technomancy also expressed itself randomly as the Wireless Matrix came up, but that's simply my GMly inclination and not supported by the fiction.
LilithTaveril
Well, I was just thinking that maybe it wasn't just people stuck in the stock exchange. As the whole thing comes down, people get trapped while trying to frantically save information. The survivors wake up a little brain-fried after the trodes are pulled off and discover a whole new world. Probably melted the "magical potential" button in the "on" position while turning on the "otaku" switch.
Jaid
i imagine they will have some way for more technomancers to be made. they don't seem like they were intended to all have been created from that one event to me.
SL James
QUOTE (Conskill @ Aug 17 2006, 06:13 PM)
Also keep in mind the time leap.  It is entirely possible for the "first generation" Otaku (or those with untapped Otaku talent, assuming both occur at the same time) to be adults now.  Even some Otaku that didn't Fade would now be over 21.

Uh... Sure. But the oldest guaranteed cyberless Technomancer should only be... five.

Makes me wonder how the adult TM sample char got their abilities.

Actually, all of the first-gen Otaku should be over 21-the ones who first appeared in 2054/55. The second-gen Otaku (including the kids of some otaku) would also be approaching 21.
Conskill
"Guranteed cyberless?" Well, sure, because the number of five year olds with cyberware (outside the Renraku Arcology) approaches 0%.

There is a segment of the population out there that just happen to not have a hole drilled in their heads. Of that segment, some might have been connected during the Crash with trodes, some might have been exposed to gamma rays, bitten by radioactive spiders, listened to Celine Dion's head in a jar, or whatever other voodoo was involved. They became the 6 Essence Technomancers.

I guess I don't see the problem you have with the concept. I'll agree that most every Technomancer should include a datajack just due to their ubiquitous nature, but it's not like every single metahuman on the planet gets one installed when they turn 18. It's reasonable to assume a small section of the TM population are from both the "never got a datajack" and "got picked by God to be TMs" populations.
LilithTaveril
Plus, there are those, even today, who fear technology. Add in religious reasons for not getting tech implanted, sensitive systems, and all kinds of other potential reasons why a person might not get cyberwear. Yeah, there's a lot of cyber out there, but since the average person doesn't understand it, I'm willing to bet that a large percentage of the population lacks implants.
FanGirl
Barring some kind of extreme handicap in a child (such as blindness or an amputated limb), I don't believe that many parents would want their children cybered at a young age. Not only would the cost of having to replace cyberware as children outgrew them pose a financial nightmare to all but the very rich, the risk of destroying a child's magical ability before he or she can be tested would probably discourage most. Therefore, you'd probably expect that most people would remain cyber-free until they reach adulthood. Between all these kids who were too young to be cybered and the adults who chose not to get cybered ("I don't care how useful a datajack is, I'm not gonna let you cut me open!"), there's lots of potential TMs out there.
Valentinew
Just to add to this maelstrom, the TM I play was 14 at the time of the Crash. Her mother did not believe in any cyber until at least 18, so she is now a 19 year old TM with no cyber.

Really, even in the Sixth World, how many one-year-olds are going to have cyber of any sort? I can agree that the majority of un-cybered TMS are going to be 10 yrs old or younger, but come on, 5?!?
FanGirl
QUOTE (Valentinew)
Just to add to this maelstrom, the TM I play was 14 at the time of the Crash. Her mother did not believe in any cyber until at least 18, so she is now a 19 year old TM with no cyber.

Oh yeah? Well, I decided that my TM would be at the same age that I am now (19) and share my birthday with me, meaning that her fourteenth birthday was on November 3rd, 2064. Then I learned that the Crash happened on November 2nd, 2064. Depending on your perspective, her techno powers are either the worst or the best birthday present she ever got.
QUOTE
Really, even in the Sixth World, how many one-year-olds are going to have cyber of any sort? I can agree that the majority of un-cybered TMS are going to be 10 yrs old or younger, but come on, 5?!?

Let's not forget that the Crash happened six years before 2070. How did these five-year-olds gain their TM powers when they weren't even born yet? Did their mothers have little cyberdecks inserted into their wombs so that their spawn wouldn't get bored in there? wink.gif
hyzmarca
Pre-SR4, the educational benefits of a datajack and a knowsoft link far outweighed their costs, both in money and in essence. A child, even an infant, with this combination is at a great advantage compared to uncybered children. Considering how competitive educational opportunities are today and how important a good education is it is likely that children with these ubiquitious pieces of 'ware will be common in 2070. It isn't like education will be any less valuable in the future. Remember, installing a datajack isn't exactly presented as major surgery in SR. It is more like having a piercing done today.

There are some unnecessary medical procedures that are performed as a matter of course. Circumcision, for example, is often performed on babies without even bothering to consult the parents. It's just standard procedure in many hospitals. It is quite possible that datajack instillation is standard procedure in some hospitals.

Conskill
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
There are some unnecessary medical procedures that are performed as a matter of course. Circumcision, for example, is often performed on babies without even bothering to consult the parents. It's just standard procedure in many hospitals. It is quite possible that datajack instillation is standard procedure in some hospitals.

I'd be curious to see if there's any literature out there about what happens to the wound if you trepan a toddler.
FanGirl
And again, there's always a chance of even the smallest loss of Essence destroying a child's magical ability before he or she has the chance to develop it. I'm certain that most competitive parents would be aware of the fact that the Talent gives a child more opportunities than any knowsoft could. Would they really want to take the risk of snuffing out their kid's sure-fire ticket to incredible power and prestige just to give him a bit of a boost in math class? Unless they suffer from the delusion that magic is "evil" and want to stamp any sign of it out of their child, I doubt it.
SL James
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
There are some unnecessary medical procedures that are performed as a matter of course. Circumcision, for example, is often performed on babies without even bothering to consult the parents. It's just standard procedure in many hospitals. It is quite possible that datajack instillation is standard procedure in some hospitals.

That's crazy. In the US? How? If they screwed up even a little the doctor would be sued into oblivion.
RunnerPaul
QUOTE (FanGirl)
Barring some kind of extreme handicap in a child (such as blindness or an amputated limb), I don't believe that many parents would want their children cybered at a young age. Not only would the cost of having to replace cyberware as children outgrew them pose a financial nightmare to all but the very rich, the risk of destroying a child's magical ability before he or she can be tested would probably discourage most.

The human head reaches adult size at ages 4-6. After that, you don't really have worries about outgrowing headware in the physical sense. Neurological development is still progressing, of course, but previous SR universe fluff never really established what the absolute minimum age was for headware implantation.

We do know from Dr. Halberstam's experiments, that datajacks can be made to work for extremely young patients, but we have no indication of how many of his test subjects failed, if any, and how many would have had failed datajacks had it not been for the fact that he had those children under medical surveillance 24/7 and could perform regular medical procedures to adjust where the datajack connects up with the brain.

However, from what I've seen of the fluff, it would appear that by early adolescence, neurological development stabilizes to a point to where a jack could be implanted without worry.

Anyone rich enough to be able to consider getting their teenager a datajack probably also has easy access to corporate screening programs to test for the potential for magical ability. While those screening tests are not infallible, as magic-hungry as the corporations are, they go to the trouble to make them as accurate as they can.

So, let's get hypothetical for a bit here. Say the testing process misses one out of every 5 potential mages it looks at; the testing comes back negative for that one despite the fact that sometime down the road, they will awaken. We also have to consider the percentage of the population that awakens, which is about 1%. Therefore, 99.2% of kids sent through the screening are reported as negative (99% who are truly negative, and 0.2% who are false-negatives and will awaken at a later date).

What's it mean if your kid gets a negative result on that screening? Only 1 kid out of 496 who gets a negative result on that screening later goes on to awaken.

Say the screening is even worse, and misses one out of every 2 potential awakeners. In that case, only 1 kid out of 199 who gets reported as negative ever goes on to awaken. Still pretty good odds.

So you're a parent, and you've had your child screened and the experts tell you they don't think there's any magic potential there. Are you going to let that 1 in 496 (or 1 in 199) chance that the experts are wrong keep you from giving your child a boost in their abilities to study, and a head start on a future career? Especially when if they do turn out to be that 1 in 496 chance, the implant typically only hinders the magical gift, and not extinguishes it entirely? And if it does hinder it, it's a hindrance that can be overcome with a little hard work?

Given the soccer-mom mentality to parenting, something that I imagine will be with us well into SR's time, I could see why affluent parents in the 2050s and 2060s would at least consider letting the kid get a datajack if they wanted one. It wouldn't be universal, of course. There would still be parents who would say that they don't trust the medical research that says it's safe, or they don't like the idea of minors with implants, or they don't want to risk hindering potential magic, no matter what the odds are. And there are some kids who wouldn't even want them in the first place, because they have other plans for their life.

It almost doesn't matter anyway: with the advances in 'trode tech in the late 2060s the pendulum is bound to swing the other way again. Having a datajack isn't the competitive edge that it used to be.



QUOTE (SL James)
In the US?
Certainly not. There is no US in SR's time. biggrin.gif
LilithTaveril
Well, I was just thinking of something: In the SR novels, how many characters start out with data jacks before the 2060s? What about after? And, what age does it usually establish them as getting those?
Witness
QUOTE (FanGirl)
How did these five-year-olds gain their TM powers when they weren't even born yet? Did their mothers have little cyberdecks inserted into their wombs so that their spawn wouldn't get bored in there? wink.gif

I guess this has been discussed at some point and I missed it, but...
Are the only TMs in SR4 the ones who were turned by Crash 2? Because I can see people becoming TMs spontaneously at any point thereafter. After all- JackBNimble is still out there, right? wink.gif
Glayvin34
Fer shitz n' giggles, this from page 232 in the SR4 book, in the TM section:

QUOTE
All over the world, thousands of people found their consciousnesses trapped within the Matrix at the height of the Crash, some of them surviving there for hours or even days. Many died from lethal biofeedback stress, but many others survived only realizing later that their minds were fundamentally changed.


It wasn't just the folk in the NYSE that became TMs, or even children born with wireless signals assaulting them in the womb, it was a percentage of everyone that was on the Matrix during Crash 2.0. So if Grandma was Cold Sim on the phone to Timmy in Rhode Island, she could have become a TM on that fateful day in November of 2065.

I assumed that it was only those people in VR on November 2nd that were somehow not killed by feedback from the Jormungand (sp?) virus. So I always thought that all TMs were at least old enough to have been in VR in 2065, which rules out most youngesters.
hyzmarca
QUOTE (SL James)
QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Aug 17 2006, 09:27 PM)
There are some unnecessary medical procedures that are performed as a matter of course. Circumcision, for example, is often performed on babies without even bothering to consult the parents. It's just standard procedure in many hospitals. It is quite possible that datajack instillation is standard procedure in some hospitals.

That's crazy. In the US? How? If they screwed up even a little the doctor would be sued into oblivion.

Well, it is suall mentioned on one of those forms that no one ever reads and if it isn't it would probably be included under the broad language of those forms. While it is less common now, circumcision was once the standard of care of infant boys. Few people thought any more about it than they would able a polio vaccine.

I'm pretty sure that Willie Gate's kid had a datajack installed when he was a kid and became a whiz hot decker because of it. Apparently, kids who are raised in simsense enviroments adapt to them as if they were the real world. You can't make an otaku like this but you can raise an absurdly skilled decker


Back in SR1, SR2, and SR3 a datajack couldn't possibly snuff out magical talent, with the exception of the SURGE effect of Astral Sight (and that depended greatly on GM
interpertation). Magicians with datajacks were not uncommon in reality or in fluff. Back then, it took 5.1 points of essence loss to completely destroy all potential magicial talent (although invasive medical procedures and deadly wounds could contribute to magic loss).

Pre-awakening magic loss in SR4s system is open to interpertation. In SR4 magic starts at 1 and has to be bought up, but it is very possible for a magician character to start with cyberware. He just has to buy an extra point of magic to offset the essence loss. Well, there's nothing stopping that kid from saving 10 BP so he can buy a second point of magic when he awakens. Personally, I interperate it that a character with latent magical talent and less than 5.1 points of essence loss will awaken with magic 1 but must pay off the magic loss with karma or BP before that character can Awaken.
Of course, I havn't read Street Magic so its mechanics may directly contradict that interpertation.
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