I have looked at the eratta, but have not seen this. Could be my fault.

sr4.173

Mages can have cyberwear and use certain technical items for spellcasting.

Assuming that I understand you, this is the key: "but any technological visual aids that substitute themselves for the character’s own visual senses". None of those devices substitute themselves for the character's own visual senses. They simply aid it, by non-electronic means.

A magician cannot use electronic vision or enhancements.

A security camera, for example, does not let the photons that bounce off the target hit the magician's optic nerves; a length of fiberoptic cable does.

Regular binoculars (with lenses) work fine; electronic binocs do not.

A magician can target someone they see through a sheet of glass, or who reflection they see in a mirror. Hence, a periscope works.

Basically, the way i see it is that if you look through it, i.e. binoculars, telescope, parascope, etc., you can cast with it. If it sees for you and provides a digital display, i.e. digital binoculars, security camera, ultrasound, and probably the magesight goggles, you cannot cast because you're not really seeing the target, just a picture of the target.

Edit: You beat me to it Ancient History.

my bad, there is a very poorly placed line brake between electronic and binoculars.

Though I believe you can use things like video feeds to get a better bearing on where your target is, taking advantage of their magnification etc. You just need line of sight somehow as well to send the spell around there.

But you can always blind-fire off indirect combat spells if you want, right?

Example: Nuke-O the mage sees a hiding enemy on a security monitor. It turns out the guy is only 10 meters away, behind a desk. Nuke-O drops a fireball right behind the desk, hoping to catch the chump in the blast.

Does that make sense?

Dread Polack

Sure - you're targetting the desk, not the guy. The guy is just, hopefully, in range.

And now Mage-sight Goggles make sense.

They seem *completely* cheesy, but they make sense.

They call it Magesight, but really, everyone can potentially benefit from that fiberoptic cable gimmick.

Remember that before you skip these gadgets for your covert ops specialist just because it has the word magic in it.

I go with the thought that all aoe spell are targeted for the center and all in range of that center are affected. Here is why.

A group is jumped by 6 gangers. The sammy beats the mage and gos first. He runs up 10 meters strait into the mass of oncoming gangers. The mage gos "crap why he have to do that, now I can't use mana ball." Then he gets a great idea. He holds his hand up in front of him and blocks los on the sammy and hit the 5 gangers he still sees with a mana ball.


There were even thought of smartlinking the mage. You put a lcd face shield on him that puts a black boxs over friendlys. No los on friendlys he can mana balls as much as he wants.

Hmm. I suppose RAW, that would work. Just remember that it would work both ways ... so a corp strike team could do it protect their teammembers or a hacker could hack in an mess with the mage's pannel. More trouble than it's worth IMO.

The simplest method to avoid that kind of abuse would be to measure LOS from the mage's aura, not his physical eyes. Thus, his own hands don't block LOS nor would a HUD.

Theoretically, yes, holding a bit of paper, or other LOS-blocking on friendlies cheat would work.

However at least in the SR3 FAQ it was suggested that trying to trick yourself that way could result in bad stuff happening, like the spell fizzling and you still taking drain.

Of course, we shouldnt forget the best solution to teammates in the line of fire, mathmatics. If x>1 then N/(x-1)>N/x.


And we stuill don't know where your fireball originates if you try to cast it through a fiberoptic cable.

In one of the SOTA books when describing the Promethean system (sec mage system, fire optic cables running through the walls), it stated that since indirect manipulations start at the caster, and then go straight to the target, they weren't able to be cast through the system.

So I'd guess that in SR4 it starts at the caster, but I haven't bothered searching the book to make sure.

So only Direct spells work through fiber-optics?

No, indirect spells will go off but they go in a straight line from mage to target. Meaning if you fire off that Firebolt spell using magesight goggles from around a corner you're going to blast the wall, not the target.

I've always been grumpy about the ability of magicians to cast spells through lenses and mirrors. The concept is that you can see the target, and so throw spells at that target, yes? But, as anyone who has had high school physics can tell you, when you are looking at an object through a mirror or a lens, you're not actually looking at the object, but an image of that object.

On the other hand, the shiny new smartlinks also let one shoot around corners, so I guess it's all even. Just remember to hide around a corner in your next firefight.

The fundamental implication there is, indeed, that photons carry magical energy.

Which, given they are not only particles, but waves too, is perfectly reasonable - or why do you think those people using magic always glow?

In 2052 Dr. Albertus Vanderklein was awarded the Nobel prize in physics for his discovery and proof of the LoSotons.

"The LoSoton is something that people have always taken for granted, and have a very instinctual relationship with," said Dr. VDK "but they have never truly understood it. Why can we see through a mirror, but not a rock? Why can we wear glasses, which don't affect our line of sight, but a camera transmitting the image 5' does? These questions are easily answered by studying the LoSoton."

"The LoSoton is a very unstable particle, and is easily disturbed by electronic radiation. By itself, it can carry a Mananite. However, any sort of directed electronic radiation will loosen the bond between the Losoton and the Mananite, causing magical effects to fail."

"It creates a few odd situations, but really, it all makes sense. You can't argue with it. It's science."

Hmm Photons don't have to carry magic...

merely astraltons behave much the same.

Pretty much from the raw (implied imo if not stated) casting a spell on something ie because you can see the 'aura'. Now this is not something everyone can do.

While it 'appears' to be the visible image of the target, we can not conclusively state at this point that the 'aura' targeted is actual visible light, and can strongly infer it is not (since then electric copied images should work).

Now it does appear that astralTons due behave much like any other wave particle in how the are effected by changes in density and travel speeds, thus it is possible to reflect/refract the waves. They are amazingly similar to visible light in that they appear identical to the refractive/reflective qualities of light.

However their energy emissions (if present at all) seem to be vastly different and no KNOWN method of converting their energy to another is understood. (while mages can do it, scientists cant tell you HOW they do it).

This would explain why 'LOS' is needed, and why electronic facsimiles don't.

Although it would still leave open the possiblity of the MIT boys developing a means to transmit aura's

peace

A line is a two dimensional connection between a point or series of points. It can certainly curve or bend.

And depending on your dimensional PoV, a line could appear straight that others saw as curved.

Actually, ritual sorcery with an astral spotter should be sufficient disprove that photons carry spells.

Silly runners...

8 : a straight or curved geometric element that is generated by a moving point and that has extension only along the path of the point

From http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/line