I thought I heard/read somewhere that when using Edge on a spellcasting test, the hits used are not limited by Force anymore. Is this correct? I can't seem to find it in the book, so I'm either blind or gullible.
Could someone point me in the right direction, please?
Full Version: Breaking Force hit limits with Edge
When I read that I thought the poster was mistaking the optional rule that you cannot have more successes than 2xskill rating.
I could not locate it either.
I could not locate it either.
It's on page 172 BBB ... "... Force serves as a limiter effect on spells—the more oomph you put into the spell, the better you can succeed with it. This limitation does not apply to Edge dice that are used to boost a spell."
Makes me wonder if you can use edge on spell casting and quicken / sustaining focus a low-force-but-higher-number-of-successes spell.
- Respite
Makes me wonder if you can use edge on spell casting and quicken / sustaining focus a low-force-but-higher-number-of-successes spell.
- Respite
| QUOTE (respite) |
| Makes me wonder if you can use edge on spell casting and quicken / sustaining focus a low-force-but-higher-number-of-successes spell. - Respite |
as written, yes.
it would still be easily dispelled *not so big a deal, IMO), and more easily defeated by wards (the main concern, if you ask me), so it still has it's limitations.
| QUOTE (respite) |
| It's on page 172 BBB ... "... Force serves as a limiter effect on spells—the more oomph you put into the spell, the better you can succeed with it. This limitation does not apply to Edge dice that are used to boost a spell." |
As I understand it that means your Magic+Sorcery+non edge bonuses are capped at the force of the spell, but the dice from your edge (hope it's higher than 1) can exceed that cap.
Guess I need to start rolling edge dice seperately.
im wondering why the text says "boost a spell" rather then "added to a spellcasting test". it would be much more clear what they where trying to say with that last bit then.
Rolling separately doesn't make sense. All the dice in a pool explode when you use Edge, rolling separate wouldn't matter.
And if that is what's trying to be said, it's a pain in the ass. Rolling separate for the same test? Does any other mechanic follow that kind of process? I can't think of one, and thank god. That just makes the whole process of rolling take that much longer. No need for that.
And if that is what's trying to be said, it's a pain in the ass. Rolling separate for the same test? Does any other mechanic follow that kind of process? I can't think of one, and thank god. That just makes the whole process of rolling take that much longer. No need for that.
You've got a good point with the exploding dice. However, it may have been their intent that exploded dice count as Edge dice. That said, you are most likely correct; as I understand it, a main objective of SR4 was to unify the mechanics of SR in general with mechanics of Magic, thus rolling seperately would be a step backwards (even if it's amongst 12 steps forward).
If the Edge is used to reroll misses, then it would make sense. But that option I find is used far less than adding to the pool, probably why I didn't think of it to begin with.
So, that would mean that if you get 10 hits on your Force 5, you can't reroll the misses and say those extra five from the first roll count now. THAT makes sense. That means using Edge to break Force is still gamble that you could waste Edge on. I like that.
BTW thank you respite for pointing me to the right page. 2 Karma for you
So, that would mean that if you get 10 hits on your Force 5, you can't reroll the misses and say those extra five from the first roll count now. THAT makes sense. That means using Edge to break Force is still gamble that you could waste Edge on. I like that.
BTW thank you respite for pointing me to the right page. 2 Karma for you
If I ever run a game, what I might do is have the cap on hits be Force of the spell or Force+Edge if edge was used to add dice to test (not to reroll misses).
| QUOTE (Samaels Ghost) |
| If the Edge is used to reroll misses, then it would make sense. But that option I find is used far less than adding to the pool, probably why I didn't think of it to begin with. |
odd. in many cases, rerolling misses is the better option...
for example, let us suppose someone has a 6 edge sammy. their dice pool for their automatic weapon of choice is (8 agility + 5 skill + 2 specialisation + 2 smartlink + 1 reflex recorder) 18 dice. they can add edge, bringing it to 24 dice, getting 4 exploding dice on average (total of 28), which on average gets one (and a third) more hits (total of 9.33 hits on average). or, they can roll, and (on average) get 6 hits. which means they had 12 misses... rerolling those misses can get them 12 more dice, getting on average 4 more hits, for total of 10 hits, and 30 dice on average.
furthermore, rerolling misses allows you to decide if you even need to spend edge until it's critical.... the worse you roll, the better rerolling failures gets, whereas if you don't have very many failures, chances are you don't need edge anyways.
and of course, there's also the fact that not everyone is gonna have that high of edge in the first place.
but that's just my way of looking at it, i suppose.
The break even point is edge = 7/18 times (dice pool). More edge--use exploding dice. Less edge--reroll failures. So if you have a dice pool of 18 and an edge of 7, statistically you'll get the same number of successes (on average) either way. The advantage of rerolling failures is (as Jaid said) knowing if you need to do it or not. The advantage of exploding dice is the possibility (a really slim chance) of getting more successes than pool. Too bad you may only do one or the other.
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