This would give adepts a short range (20 meter) weapon for astral combat.
"Pretty thin, huh?", asks Sergeant Roger Murtaugh.
What do you think?
Full Version: Ranged Weapon Focus
Dameleon suggested that a taser dart could be turned into a weapon focus. Seems like a taser with trailing wires like the Defiance EX Shocker keeps the dart connected to the user. I assume the whole taser, wire, dart assembly would have to be the focus.
This would give adepts a short range (20 meter) weapon for astral combat.
"Pretty thin, huh?", asks Sergeant Roger Murtaugh.
What do you think?
This would give adepts a short range (20 meter) weapon for astral combat.
"Pretty thin, huh?", asks Sergeant Roger Murtaugh.
What do you think?
| QUOTE (De Badd Ass) |
| Dameleon suggested that a taser dart could be turned into a weapon focus. Seems like a taser with trailing wires like the Defiance EX Shocker keeps the dart connected to the user. I assume the whole taser, wire, dart assembly would have to be the focus. |
Seems a bit high tech for a focus. I'd prefer to just stick to a scuba type speargun, with the cable going to a wristband.
Don't know. It might be hard to do (Enchanting wise) but it MAY be possible. But is the whole thing considered to be a focus, or just the dart? That's where it could fall part. It would need to be the whole thing.
| QUOTE (kzt) |
| Seems a bit high tech for a focus. I'd prefer to just stick to a scuba type speargun, with the cable going to a wristband. |
I dunno. In this case, I'd say you had a wristband or a cable that was the weapon focus, not the spear.
You can definately enchant a Defiance EX as a weapon focus to be used as a club. Whether you could use it as a stun baton is iffy, and a taser is even more so.
I would think the electrical component of those weapons would bypass the immunities of spirits since it's not a genuine physical attack - mind, the weapon itself would certain apply, just not the current. 
But then one could argue a grenade should work equally well from the explosion if it includes flames. *shrugs* So who knows.
at least Street Magic brought back the 'I use my supreme stubbornness to kick your ass, spirit' back as an option. You can play rock paper scissors with spirits again that way.
But then one could argue a grenade should work equally well from the explosion if it includes flames. *shrugs* So who knows.
at least Street Magic brought back the 'I use my supreme stubbornness to kick your ass, spirit' back as an option. You can play rock paper scissors with spirits again that way.
I prefer the old trick of stuffing a devil rat into a potato gun and launching it at the spirit. If you're lucky the two will be forced into astral combat and that's just funnier than a taser focus.
Or you could scale it up a little and make an actual mage gun.
Or you could scale it up a little and make an actual mage gun.
I think that's basically a modified anchor focus, possible with a spirit bound to it, in the form of a gun, or you use use the gun and the spirit and skip anchor. Entertaining prospect of binding.
My suggestionn is that any weapon foci MUST use the characters physical attribute to deal damage. Most weapons have STR/2+Weapon. Hi-tech weapons that have their own damage code use technology that is no part of the character.
Monowhip, tazer, stun-baton, shock-glove: All of these have a fixed damage value and would therefore be unsuitable as a foci due to the way damage is dealt.
Grapple gun is a stretch as the weapon ITSELF is the foci, not the grappling hook or the line.
Monowhip, tazer, stun-baton, shock-glove: All of these have a fixed damage value and would therefore be unsuitable as a foci due to the way damage is dealt.
Grapple gun is a stretch as the weapon ITSELF is the foci, not the grappling hook or the line.
| QUOTE (hyzmarca) |
| Or you could scale it up a little and make an actual mage gun. |
allso known as a dwarf in a sewer pipe...
| QUOTE (Cold-Dragon) |
| But then one could argue a grenade should work equally well from the explosion if it includes flames. |
Explosion is an elemental effect.
Any mage that is willing to spend the karma to bond a taser weapon focus with a 20 reach, and which does the damage of a pointy dart, should be allowed to. As they say, a fool and his karma are soon parted.
/Skepticism that electricty damage works on the astral.
/Skepticism that electricty damage works on the astral.
| QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig) |
| Explosion is an elemental effect. |
That's fine for the elemental effect, but grenades aren't spells either. Last I checked a grenade followed the rule about immunity against weapons, and thus you needed a lot of power in the grenade, or a small hole for the spirit to drop into so you can set the timer to almost instant and drop it in to use the chunky salsa effect.
| QUOTE (JRDobbs) |
| Any mage that is willing to spend the karma to bond a taser weapon focus with a 20 reach, and which does the damage of a pointy dart, should be allowed to. As they say, a fool and his karma are soon parted. /Skepticism that electricty damage works on the astral. |
Really good point about the Reach. Why didn't I think of that?
| QUOTE (De Badd Ass) |
| This would give adepts a short range (20 meter) weapon for astral combat. |
| QUOTE (Samaels Ghost) | ||
Really good point about the Reach. Why didn't I think of that? |
Maybe I am missing something. What is the point?
| QUOTE (De Badd Ass) |
| Maybe I am missing something. What is the point? |
You increase the force multiplier to determine karma cost for binding the focus by the weapon's reach. So a 20 reach, Force 6 weapon focus would cost 138 ((3+20)*6) karma.
if you notice, you can get +21 (+20 for reach and +1 for weapon foci) dice for just 23 karma 
at this point, the extra 5 dice cease to matter
at this point, the extra 5 dice cease to matter
nevermind me, had a silly answer that might have been stupid instead...carry on aiming the tazer up your nose! ^-^
i'm just curious...
i see a lot of people making comments as if a reach of 1 means the weapon can reach 1 meter.
now, maybe i'm just missing something, but i don't recall reading anything to that effect in the books so far...
i see a lot of people making comments as if a reach of 1 means the weapon can reach 1 meter.
now, maybe i'm just missing something, but i don't recall reading anything to that effect in the books so far...
Technically, when you get into the gritty of melee combat, you come into a meter or two to fight - this is not a constant. you are ducking, weaving, pulling back and charging forward and such. weapons have varying lengths, however, so in a sense, th reach says what 'meter' you are in the most with the attack, and thus you may have an advantage with that because of where it puts you with your opponent. It's hard to hit someone with a knife when they keep you at bay with a sharp spear, for example. You aren't neccessarily 2-3 meters apart, but that is pretty much going to be the rough size of your combat area.
ANd when you think about trolls, it makes sense there too - with arms that friggin long, they can put their hand on your head, let you flail fists pointlessly, and then crush your skull when they get bored! ^-^
ANd when you think about trolls, it makes sense there too - with arms that friggin long, they can put their hand on your head, let you flail fists pointlessly, and then crush your skull when they get bored! ^-^
Looking at the real life counterparts of the weapons in the book gives us a reach/length ratio of about 1reach/meter. This isn't exact, of course; there is some deviance. Still, it is usually accurate to the nearest integer.
ok, so it's basically just an assumption that everyone is making then... there isn't really anywhere that it says that's how it works (like a person with a reach two weapon can't make attacks any further away than a person with a 1 reach weapon or anything), it's more of something that happens to fit rather accurately and is very likely the method they use to determine reach, basically...
Yup, pretty much. To be mean and use DnD terms, reach is your threatened area for Attacks of opportunity - so it's a good thing those don't exactly exist in SR.
| QUOTE (xizor) |
| if you notice, you can get +21 (+20 for reach and +1 for weapon foci) dice for just 23 karma at this point, the extra 5 dice cease to matter |
Yeah, Baby !!!
Too bad maximum reach = 4. (sr4 p147)
/puts silliness aside.
That paragraph only applies to melee combat, as does the concept of reach. Ranged weapons don't have reach; they have range. I didn't know people equated range in meters to reach.
Well weapon focus rules explicitly depend on Reach, so it is a melee weapon only unless you want to start giving ranged weapons a de facto reach which is what we are doing here. If you want to say that reach doesn't apply to ranged weapons well fine - I'd agree, but then there goes the projectile weapon focus. Choose one or the other, I'm afraid.
| QUOTE (knasser) |
| Well weapon focus rules explicitly depend on Reach, so it is a melee weapon only unless you want to start giving ranged weapons a de facto reach which is what we are doing here. If you want to say that reach doesn't apply to ranged weapons well fine - I'd agree, but then there goes the projectile weapon focus. Choose one or the other, I'm afraid. |
In Shadowrun, reach has nothing to do with distance, it relates to weapon size. Melee in SR4 assumes both characters are in melee range of each other. It's not like DnD, where the character with the polearm can stand out of reach of the character with the dagger and poke away with impunity.
In Shadowrun, reach increases the power of the attack, or reduces the power of the defense. It has nothing to do with distance.
Sure, "weapon focus rules explicitly depend on Reach". Every ranged weapon in Shadowrun has Reach = 0. Why make an exception now?
| QUOTE (De Badd Ass @ Sep 6 2006, 07:56 AM) |
| Every ranged weapon in Shadowrun has Reach = 0. Why make an exception now? |
Actually, I think some ranged weapons, when used as melee weapons, did have a Reach of 1 (rifle butts, bayonets, etc, IIRC).
| QUOTE (Da Bad Ass) |
| Sure, "weapon focus rules explicitly depend on Reach". Every ranged weapon in Shadowrun has Reach = 0. Why make an exception now? |
Because an exception to the rule that no range weapon can be made into a weapon focus is suggested* so you need to make exceptions on the reach rules too.
The increased cost for weapon focus based on reach most likley has nothing to do with mass. Or else a monfilament whip would be cheap indeed and a three foot machete would be more expensive.
It probably has to do with the difficulty of extending the magical aura farther from your body or something like that. An eventual Taser weapon focus has even more 'rope' to enchant than a whip so no way it would be cheaper.
Of course, as far as I'm concerned there is no ranged weapon focus period so shouldn't be much of an issue but if you are gonna break that rule you need to think about the implications.
*Well I guess thechnically you can turn your Ares Predator into a weapon focus so that you can pistol whip nasty spirits. Altough the runner who does that officially should retire because he has too much money.
| QUOTE (Charon) |
| Well I guess thechnically you can turn your Ares Predator into a weapon focus so that you can pistol whip nasty spirits. Altough the runner who does that officially should retire because he has too much money. |
What? Why on earth should a Gun-Fu adept carry any other melee weapon?
page 191
"Weapon foci add magical power to an Awakened character’s
melee attacks.
In physical combat, weapon foci add their Force in dice
to the character’s dice pool for melee attacks."
No taser, by the RAW, as it's a ranged weapon. Which makes me sad for my "knife throwing maniac" and my "magic bow using ph4+ 1337 elf" concepts.
"Weapon foci add magical power to an Awakened character’s
melee attacks.
In physical combat, weapon foci add their Force in dice
to the character’s dice pool for melee attacks."
No taser, by the RAW, as it's a ranged weapon. Which makes me sad for my "knife throwing maniac" and my "magic bow using ph4+ 1337 elf" concepts.
You can still have a magic bow. Make it a talisman for a bow adept.
*ears perk up*
Talisman for a magical adept? Care to elaborate for those of us still trying to figure out the rules?
And yes, the Gun Fu adept would use the Ares to pistol whip.
Is that considered unarmed?
Talisman for a magical adept? Care to elaborate for those of us still trying to figure out the rules?
And yes, the Gun Fu adept would use the Ares to pistol whip.
Is that considered unarmed?
Clubs, I'd think.
| QUOTE (lorechaser) |
| *ears perk up* Talisman for a magical adept? Care to elaborate for those of us still trying to figure out the rules? |
The only mention of Talisman I can find in Street Magic is as a possible Geasa, which could grant you 10 BP at chargen.
I don't really see how that would translate into "Magic Bow". It's more like, if you don't use your "Magic Bow" than YOU aren't "Magic" anymore.
Are there stats for a pistol whip or rifle butt, or bayonet?
And can you consider yourself armed if you're pistol whipping, for the purposes of parrying melee attacks? Hmmm....
Off topic, but....
And can you consider yourself armed if you're pistol whipping, for the purposes of parrying melee attacks? Hmmm....
Off topic, but....
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.