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WhiskeyMac
Some would say the Street Sam is best
Ignoring a bullet straight to the chest

I would say it seems to compute
That even Hackers can hack your boot

Shamans or Mages, who really cares
Oh SHIT! Watch out for Drop Bears!

Finally I say this without a glance sir
I really do like the Technomancer!

Ok, I failed Poetry time in English class. I do much better when I actually write something that makes sense. biggrin.gif
Butterblume
Eve of the autumn
my women hate this thread
less than the weather.
BishopMcQ
"I'll take Haiku for 500, Alex."

Eidolon--While I can sympathize with your opinions, there have been experiments in Social containment here since several of the new regulars joined our group. To simply target an individual and accuse him of attempting to troll does not actually address the behavior within the post.

There will always be people that you don't get along with, and while I may not support all of the threads Emo posts, I make a conscious decision to keep my posts "On Topic" when responding. The other choice is simply not to post. No one will notice your lack of posts. And if Emo actually is trolling for attention, by not giving him the attention he wants, he will change his ways.

I'm curious if others would like to make comment on my above post, either for or against my division of power in the archetypes. Whiskey Mac also posted an opinion, couched in rhyme, though I'm primarily sticking to prose.
lorechaser
If the majority of the threads on the board were like this, I think you'd have a valid point. But this, and the drop bears, seem to be the only real whimsy I've seen.

The alternative was 10 pages of "Nuh uh! My mage can overpower 3 forcebolts a round for 34P damage on average!" "Oh yeah? MY Sam can shoot 2 assault cannons per pass for 60p!" "MINE can be invisible!" "Nuh uh! I have ultrasound goggles!"

wink.gif
Kyrn
I'll have to second lorechaser. And double check the sonnets for correct iambic pentameter. Hmm...think lit degree, think.
BishopMcQ
Lorechaser--I have absolutely no problem with the rhyming, I enjoy it actually. I was addressing the posts of:
QUOTE
And the entire thread is...

still fucking retarded.
and
QUOTE
No, some people used to enjoy the forum more when it wasn't filled with 14 year old kids that use it to take up their free time at home from school by posting retarded, completely unrelated shit.

This forum used to be about Shadowrun. There is a reason we don't have a "Lounge" type area.

I used to be firmly in the camp against re-opening it, but now I long for one just to keep stupid ass shit like this contained.
lorechaser
I was too. Silly fast posters.

And to the op: I think the Gunslinger Adept is the best AT out of the box, folloed closely by the drone rigger.
eidolon
This also goes back to "forum culture". DS used to have a forum culture that encouraged being on-topic, encouraged contribution, and did not require a lot of "avoidance behavior".

To tie it back into ideas like "just don't post", not posting does not establish or reinforce forum culture. It is silent acquiesence to a new cultural norm.

I prefer the way DS used to come across to the way that the WotC boards come across. Pity that the difference is shrinking.

disclaimer: No, I'm not an admin, or a mod. But I do think that I speak for more than just myself here, and personally wish that more people that are annoyed by the shift would say something, would post more, and would help regain a forum culture in which forums.dumpshock.com is actually for and about Shadowrun, not someone's ADHD "thought of the millisecond".

QUOTE (Lorechaser)
The alternative was 10 pages of "Nuh uh! My mage can overpower 3 forcebolts a round for 34P damage on average!" "Oh yeah? MY Sam can shoot 2 assault cannons per pass for 60p!" "MINE can be invisible!" "Nuh uh! I have ultrasound goggles!"


Do you have any actual basis for this? IIRC, the alternative is (and was) 10 pages of "Help me with this rule", "Here's some help for you on this rule", "Let's discuss this intrensic part of the Shadowrun world", and "This post contains more than three words that have nothing to do with anything".
lorechaser
I was specifically referring to this post, not DS in general.

DS in general I still see as a glorious mecca of rules information and people who know far, far too much about guns, and have far more experience with SR than I.

This thread in particular was going to become "Nuh uh" "Uh huh!" I think. wink.gif

eidolon
That's another aspect of my larger point. The original post served no purpose, had no genuine content, and was nothing but bait to start up "Nuh uh" "Uh huh". When viewed alone, it wouldn't stand out. When viewed among the other detritus of like merit, it does.

I'm glad that it still seems that way to new members. Maybe you can just take this as my (probably pointless) small attempt to get people to want to keep it that way.
Glyph
I didn't think the original question was really flamebait, because he was asking about the archetypes in the book, not whether sammies or mages in general are better.


I agree with some of what McQuillan posted. The combat mage, gunslinger adept, and street samurai are the best combat options straight out of the box (although not even close to a point-built character).

The rigging and decking types start out less optimized due to the unavoidable wider spread of skills that they require, but are still effective at their roles.

Others, such as the occult investigator, face, and sprawl ganger, are not optimally built, but are still playable.

But some, such as the weapons specialist, bounty hunter, and covert ops specialist, are spread way too thin to be effective.

The enforcer, I would disallow, since they didn't spend double points on social skills like you are supposed to when you pick the uncouth flaw. He's basically a 426-point character. They made the same mistake on the hacker, but at least it's only a few points' worth, much easier tweaked to make him "legal".

As far as the weapon specialist's missile launcher... it's nice. All she needs is to get a missile for it, now. smile.gif
Aaron
QUOTE (Kyrn)
And double check the sonnets for correct iambic pentameter. Hmm...think lit degree, think.

Mine's okay, ne?
DireRadiant
What can I say? Hey!

For discussion the archetype characters are
Bounty Hunter
Combat Mage
Covert Ops Specialist
Drone Rigger
Enforcer
Face
Gunslinger Adept
Hacker
Occult Investigator
Radical Ecco Shaman
Smuggler
Sprawl Ganger
Street Samurai
Street Shaman
Technomancer
Weapons Specialist

The best one, my opinion, is probably the gun slinger adept, very good at what she does. Focused, and has a nice car, along with the ability to drive it.

It's amusing that Emo Samurai derailed his own thread with his rhyming, and Eidolon's only contribution to this thread has been to complain about the content being off topic.

If it's going to go off topic, at least let it be entertaining.
eidolon
QUOTE (DireRadiant)
Eidolon's only contribution to this thread has been to complain about the content being off topic.


I don't know the SR4 rules well enough to comment on the question as it relates to SR4.

SR3? Mage.

Does that somehow "validate" the thread?
lorechaser
I think Covert Ops is hands down the worst built character.

Lacking most things needed, and full of equipment that he can't actually use other than defaulting....
cybertrucker
Well I play with trucks made by Kenworth!
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