Burn!
The good thing is that all commlinks come with at least rank 0 common programs, so you can control those agents.
Full Version: The Commlink
I would rule that command software is only then needed when a device is not specifically designed to take input from a certain channel (like a voice oparated coffee machiene) or when you do not ahve the proper rights to do so.
At the moment the use of the command software is very unclear. I myself think SR4 could work without this programm.
At the moment the use of the command software is very unclear. I myself think SR4 could work without this programm.
| QUOTE (Serbitar) |
| I would rule that command software is only then needed when a device is not specifically designed to take input from a certain channel (like a voice oparated coffee machiene) or when you do not ahve the proper rights to do so. At the moment the use of the command software is very unclear. I myself think SR4 could work without this programm. |
I tend to look it as command is the ability to make sure your orders are understood. Computers don't understand "Go left" without software to make them understand it. Command is that software. If I recall there use to be a table that was "Complexity of order" vs hits
| QUOTE (Cognitive Resonance) | ||
I tend to look it as command is the ability to make sure your orders are understood. Computers don't understand "Go left" without software to make them understand it. Command is that software. If I recall there use to be a table that was "Complexity of order" vs hits |
Isn't that the purpose of the Pilot/IC/Agent rating?
That's what I thought as well. Command is for issuing orders to devices/Agents/etc that are not your own.
| QUOTE (Fortune) |
| That's what I thought as well. Command is for issuing orders to devices/Agents/etc that are not your own. |
Spoof is for spoofing commands. To top it off Command is not a hacking utility but a common use utility.
| QUOTE (Cognitive Resonance) | ||
Spoof is for spoofing commands. To top it off Command is not a hacking utility but a common use utility. |
Command is mentioned it might be used for complex tasks (Command+Skill) if you are operating remotely (using a drone to repair something remotely) but I don't see how this applies to Agents given their actions are based on their loaded apps and their rating.
| QUOTE (GrinderTheTroll) | ||||
Command is mentioned it might be used for complex tasks (Command+Skill) if you are operating remotely (using a drone to repair something remotely) but I don't see how this applies to Agents given their actions are based on their loaded apps and their rating. |
You can operate remotely with Agents.
I looked at the example characters, and the rigger and the hacker have command at a fairly high rating.
Oddly enough the technomancer doesn't have it. I'd think you'd want it at a very high level for spirtes, since they opperate like agents.
If any higher authority's are reading this, if command isn't for issuing commands and it's possible to spoof without it, why ever bother?
| QUOTE (Cognitive Resonance) |
| If any higher authority's are reading this, if command isn't for issuing commands and it's possible to spoof without it, why ever bother? |
Although I admire the your plea to the-powers-that-be it's in vein.
Yeah the Command app seems to be useful for Drones in Core, but I doesn't appear to have another use yet. My only other though would be to control an Agent in the Matrix while you are remote from it's location, but even then you can't really make it do anything you can do unless perhaps you default w/o using a required app like Exploit?
Odd.
i have allways read command as being a kind of universal remote for those times when a person is in AR and need to control a device over the matrix.
this basicly walks into the crazy stuff that is rigger modes
so far it seems to be:
1. tell the drone what to do (go disarm those explosives. good drone)
2. use AR and command+skill to do the task.
3. go VR and use attrib+skill
(4. as above but with full immersion)
that 4. im not 100% sure about...
all in all, i wonder who did the writing of the matrix chapter, as its basicly a mess...
and no, this does in no way explain how to use command to control a agent
this basicly walks into the crazy stuff that is rigger modes
so far it seems to be:
1. tell the drone what to do (go disarm those explosives. good drone)
2. use AR and command+skill to do the task.
3. go VR and use attrib+skill
(4. as above but with full immersion)
that 4. im not 100% sure about...
all in all, i wonder who did the writing of the matrix chapter, as its basicly a mess...
and no, this does in no way explain how to use command to control a agent
| QUOTE (hobgoblin) |
| i have allways read command as being a kind of universal remote for those times when a person is in AR and need to control a device over the matrix. <snipped> and no, this does in no way explain how to use command to control a agent |
I can see the need for a Persona to have it or perhaps an Agent to have Command to control other devices/agents/etc., but I don't see the need to have it a requirement to process instructions since that what Pilot/IC/Agent does.
Maybe that's what it's good for? Giving an Agent a Command app would allow that Agent to control other Agents/IC/Drones, where the Command Test would be how well it follows it's programming?
That makes more sense to me that requiring each Agent/IC/Drone to have a Command app on-top of it's Pilot Rating.
Typical non-hacker comm with enough utilities and protective tools to get through the day.
Stealth isn't really that necessary but we've houseruled that Stealth works when your Comm is in Hidden mode to increase the threshold for locating your Comm. ECCM is good for being able to maintain a clean connection with a low Signal rating to help reduce your exposure.
response3 signal4 system3 firewall3 2,250Y
software
encrypt3 scan3 command3 450Y
stealth3 ECCM3 3,000Y
mapsofts
seattle6, ss-seattle4, NorthAm (effective rating 1, cost as R6) 80Y
Datasoft- magic theory6, paranormal creatures6 120Y
Total cost: 5,900Y
Stealth isn't really that necessary but we've houseruled that Stealth works when your Comm is in Hidden mode to increase the threshold for locating your Comm. ECCM is good for being able to maintain a clean connection with a low Signal rating to help reduce your exposure.
response3 signal4 system3 firewall3 2,250Y
software
encrypt3 scan3 command3 450Y
stealth3 ECCM3 3,000Y
mapsofts
seattle6, ss-seattle4, NorthAm (effective rating 1, cost as R6) 80Y
Datasoft- magic theory6, paranormal creatures6 120Y
Total cost: 5,900Y
maybe you can remote control hack via an agent?
would be interesting to say the least... certainly would make black IC a lot less scary. of course, since attributes do very little in the matrix, having high command wouldn't be all that necessary, even assuming this does work.
would be interesting to say the least... certainly would make black IC a lot less scary. of course, since attributes do very little in the matrix, having high command wouldn't be all that necessary, even assuming this does work.
| QUOTE (kzt) | ||
An ounce of C4 going off in contact with your torso is going to typically put you in ICU or the ground. It's not too bad at a few feet, but in skin contact, with the case fragements driven into you? Double plus ungood. |
Which was the point. =)
As for detecting it, well... we tended to carry a lot of exploding materials on runs.
Plus the explosive charges were in hermetically sealed compartments, acid-washed to remove any residue on the outside, before installation into the transponder.
Never did have to use them, but as I said... you never know.
Incidentally, one runner did pull a gun on my character. He put it away because it's prudent to do so when the guy you're pointing the gun at opens his mouth and the pilot light from a flamethrower ignites inside it.
Anthroform drones can be fun.
=)
-karma
Few Notes:
Response >= System >= Firewall
Since Firewall is a program it can't be better than the system that is running it, it never says it straight out, but the assumption I'm basing this on is, since Firewall is listed in "Program Costs and Availability" Table (pg 228) it is in fact a program.
Command as I've read it is only really useful if you are trying to give your drone a difficult set of instructions, or an agent. IC shouldn't need it since it's made to simply counter hackers. Agent's require a bit more since they are more multi-purpose. The only example in the book is in "Controlling Devices" pg 220, with a repair drone being remotely controlled... Using a Mechanic + Command.. So I guess this would be using your skills via network? How well you can translate your skills into data the device can understand.
Unmentioned here as of yet, but something that's been questioned amongst my group, does ADMIN mean I own your system? Those of us who know computers have talked the GM into saying no. It gives you a lot of free reign, but even some actions are outside of normal ADMIN privilages, and are going to raise alerts, or at least run extra scans when attempted. Patrolling Securing Hackers and IC aren't the only things that could catch them.
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Ok, now here's a question...
One of our runners, wants to set up his commlink to turn off wireless connectivity as soon as it detects a hacker attempting to crack it, or already inside. This isn't just disconnecting a port, this is turning off all wireless activity. Since this is a free action is this feasible, and would the hacker have any way of countering this?
I find this as feasible, because as a GM if this is how the person wanted their comm set up, once some hacker figured it out, he could "ineptly" hack the system whenever he wanted to cut off that person's communications. It could pose a severe handicap to the person if it became exploited...
Little to say our hacker that was attempting to do this was rather irrate that if he was caught it was impossible for him to counter this. Note: When this happened the hacker was still trying to break in, so he wasn't in the system yet, just detected trying to break in.
If I could get some feedback on this it would be most appreciated
Response >= System >= Firewall
Since Firewall is a program it can't be better than the system that is running it, it never says it straight out, but the assumption I'm basing this on is, since Firewall is listed in "Program Costs and Availability" Table (pg 228) it is in fact a program.
Command as I've read it is only really useful if you are trying to give your drone a difficult set of instructions, or an agent. IC shouldn't need it since it's made to simply counter hackers. Agent's require a bit more since they are more multi-purpose. The only example in the book is in "Controlling Devices" pg 220, with a repair drone being remotely controlled... Using a Mechanic + Command.. So I guess this would be using your skills via network? How well you can translate your skills into data the device can understand.
Unmentioned here as of yet, but something that's been questioned amongst my group, does ADMIN mean I own your system? Those of us who know computers have talked the GM into saying no. It gives you a lot of free reign, but even some actions are outside of normal ADMIN privilages, and are going to raise alerts, or at least run extra scans when attempted. Patrolling Securing Hackers and IC aren't the only things that could catch them.
------
Ok, now here's a question...
One of our runners, wants to set up his commlink to turn off wireless connectivity as soon as it detects a hacker attempting to crack it, or already inside. This isn't just disconnecting a port, this is turning off all wireless activity. Since this is a free action is this feasible, and would the hacker have any way of countering this?
I find this as feasible, because as a GM if this is how the person wanted their comm set up, once some hacker figured it out, he could "ineptly" hack the system whenever he wanted to cut off that person's communications. It could pose a severe handicap to the person if it became exploited...
Little to say our hacker that was attempting to do this was rather irrate that if he was caught it was impossible for him to counter this. Note: When this happened the hacker was still trying to break in, so he wasn't in the system yet, just detected trying to break in.
If I could get some feedback on this it would be most appreciated
| QUOTE (Nightwalker450) |
| Few Notes: Response >= System >= Firewall Since Firewall is a program it can't be better than the system that is running it, it never says it straight out, but the assumption I'm basing this on is, since Firewall is listed in "Program Costs and Availability" Table (pg 228) it is in fact a program. |
Although it is a program, it is part of the OS, not a loadable and runnable program listed as "Common Use" or "Hacking". (SR4.225-227).
SR4.213 mentions:
System : "System is the capability of the OS. System also measures the OS's ability to run other programs -- An OS cannot run a progam with a rating higher than the OS Rating."
Firewall : "Firewall is the OS's built-in security"
The Firewall is part of the OS it isn't considered a "running program" but a "built-in" program an part of the OS itself.
| QUOTE |
| Unmentioned here as of yet, but something that's been questioned amongst my group, does ADMIN mean I own your system? |
It how you define admin for the node/system. I asked the same question about, "how does IC get loaded, unloaded into the Node? Can't an Admin do that or is their some other process?" Why not just unload all the IC and do as you please? I'd probably say only specific Access ID's or admin's with a passkey module could do such actions to prevent just such a thing from happening.
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| QUOTE |
| One of our runners, wants to set up his commlink to turn off wireless connectivity as soon as it detects a hacker attempting to crack it, or already inside. This isn't just disconnecting a port, this is turning off all wireless activity. Since this is a free action is this feasible, and would the hacker have any way of countering this? I find this as feasible, because as a GM if this is how the person wanted their comm set up, once some hacker figured it out, he could "ineptly" hack the system whenever he wanted to cut off that person's communications. It could pose a severe handicap to the person if it became exploited... |
A node/system can effectively shut-itself-down if it needs to and you'd get dumped all the same. It's a fair line of defense IMO.
| QUOTE (Fortune) |
| That's what I thought as well. Command is for issuing orders to devices/Agents/etc that are not your own. |
Quick question. Where in the chapter does it say you have to make a test to command agents and if so what is the roll combination.
I have no clue. I have no idea just what the Command Progam does at all (but then again, that doesn't seem to be an uncommon malady). As you might have noticed, the Matrix section is not exactly my forte. I was merely parroting what was stated earlier, in summary form.
Please note though, that in my quote I did qualify my statement concerning Agents with the disclaimer 'that are not your own', which may or may not make a difference to anything (but it meant something to me at the time ).
Please note though, that in my quote I did qualify my statement concerning Agents with the disclaimer 'that are not your own', which may or may not make a difference to anything (but it meant something to me at the time
).
| QUOTE (Casper) | ||
Quick question. Where in the chapter does it say you have to make a test to command agents and if so what is the roll combination. |
There is none. There is a loose reference to Controlling Devices (SR4.220) but there is not mention of how this applies to an Agent, although they are mentioned as potentially Commandable things.
| QUOTE (GrinderTheTroll) | ||||
There is none. There is a loose reference to Controlling Devices (SR4.220) but there is not mention of how this applies to an Agent, although they are mentioned as potentially Commandable things. |
I use the command complexity table from SR3 as a jumping off point.
Don't forget you need an operating system of 6 to run rating 6 programs.
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Personnally I didn't let my PC get batshit paranoid about their commlink. It's not what I want to focus my game on.
For most of them it's just a glorified cellphone anyway. Still being, aware of basics security measures, they have made it so that 90% of the time if a Hacker is hacking their commlink, the hacker is wasting his time.
Nothing of interest is stored online (you can always dump your data in whatever device suits your fancy and keep that device offline), the two non-hacker of the team are magically active and basically have nothing linked to their comm-link and since the team is so small, they hardly spread themselve very thin so the commlink is hardly ever used to communicate between themselve. In fact, it's just turned off in quite a few "commando" operation where none of them are split from the group (except for the hacker of course).
A hacker trying to locate their commlink in what he figures to be "hidden mode" wouldn't be using his time in a very constructive fashion, to say the least.
Truth is, for many PC there is not much need to go crazy on their commlink. Especially because in SR4 there is no practical way to keep a a determined Hacker from breaking in. You might as well limit your use of the commlink instead.
Oh, and when you are acting undercover, the last thing you want is an abnormally tough commlink. It could make security suspicious. Let them hack your commlink and find all the valid (but fake) info. It's counterproductive to have a rating 6 fake SIN as an innocent factory worker on a top notch commlink full of tough program that a factory worker would never have. It'll give away your fake ID!
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Personnally I didn't let my PC get batshit paranoid about their commlink. It's not what I want to focus my game on.
For most of them it's just a glorified cellphone anyway. Still being, aware of basics security measures, they have made it so that 90% of the time if a Hacker is hacking their commlink, the hacker is wasting his time.
Nothing of interest is stored online (you can always dump your data in whatever device suits your fancy and keep that device offline), the two non-hacker of the team are magically active and basically have nothing linked to their comm-link and since the team is so small, they hardly spread themselve very thin so the commlink is hardly ever used to communicate between themselve. In fact, it's just turned off in quite a few "commando" operation where none of them are split from the group (except for the hacker of course).
A hacker trying to locate their commlink in what he figures to be "hidden mode" wouldn't be using his time in a very constructive fashion, to say the least.
Truth is, for many PC there is not much need to go crazy on their commlink. Especially because in SR4 there is no practical way to keep a a determined Hacker from breaking in. You might as well limit your use of the commlink instead.
Oh, and when you are acting undercover, the last thing you want is an abnormally tough commlink. It could make security suspicious. Let them hack your commlink and find all the valid (but fake) info. It's counterproductive to have a rating 6 fake SIN as an innocent factory worker on a top notch commlink full of tough program that a factory worker would never have. It'll give away your fake ID!
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