I don't think the plessis books are that bad, certainly not the best books out there, pulpy? IMO readable so he should take a look if he is starved for cyberpunk as he is i would say they fit the cyberpunk tag way better than a lot of the books on the list, quality is an issue but some of the shadowrun books wern't exactly worthy of award nominations, hell the plessis books even have actual magic in, reminds me of the shadowrun universe in a few other ways. Once i got passed the writing i enjoyed the story a bit like a b movie i guess.
/duck & cover
Full Version: I need cyberpunk novels now.
| QUOTE (Critias) |
| Mommy, Daddy, stop fighting! Stop fighting! |
So which of the two wears the pants?
Couples who wear pants together stay together.
I also wasn't a huge fan of Snow Crash. Just...too silly for me.
And while I love early Gibson, and think it was plenty coherent enough, I've recently read Idoru and Pattern Recognition, and I think I could have shat less heavy-handed, deus ex machina reliant, over wrought "look mommy I'm an important author" crap without trying too hard.
Lots of good suggestions here though, I'll have to remember to come back and copy them into a notepad file.
And while I love early Gibson, and think it was plenty coherent enough, I've recently read Idoru and Pattern Recognition, and I think I could have shat less heavy-handed, deus ex machina reliant, over wrought "look mommy I'm an important author" crap without trying too hard.
Lots of good suggestions here though, I'll have to remember to come back and copy them into a notepad file.
I liked Idoru, though I read it when I was much younger and less critical, but I've stayed away from Pattern Recognition. I have yet to see good things happen when a cyberpunk author starts writing about the present (or, even worse, the past).
~J
~J
I enjoyed Pattern Recognition quite a bit, even though it basically just rehashes part of the plot from Count Zero.
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
| I have yet to see good things happen when a cyberpunk author starts writing about the present (or, even worse, the past). |
you didn't like the Baroque Cycle? heathen.
Pattern Recognition had a lot of unintended sillyocity to it, and Gibson still hasn't learned how to write about technology without just randomly stringing together a lot of buzzwords. still, it was a decent read, and if Gibson's grasp of tech isn't as tight as, say, Sterling's, he's at least greatly improved. it also had one of the best 'just desserts' scenes in recent memory.
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
| I have yet to see good things happen when a cyberpunk author starts writing about the present |
Precisely. The first thought I remember having when I started reading it was "wait...this isn't remotely cyberpunk".
And while for the sake of finding out that it really is a shitty book I'd suggest re-reading Idoru, I can't suggest in good conscience that someone read a shitty book, even if they've read it before. Or something.
I'm so far avoiding All Tomorrow's Parties in the assumption that it's as bad as the other two.
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
| I liked Idoru, though I read it when I was much younger and less critical, but I've stayed away from Pattern Recognition. I have yet to see good things happen when a cyberpunk author starts writing about the present (or, even worse, the past). ~J |
You didn't like the Difference Engine? If you can swallow Gibson's terrible writing style, it's a pretty darn good book.
Good point. I loved the Difference Engine. Of course, a lot of that comes from him having help from Sterling I bet. In fact, maybe that's a good reason to go read some Sterling.
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
| I have yet to see good things happen when a cyberpunk author starts writing about the present (or, even worse, the past). |
Wow... an author can't write outside his genre? Really?
I'm new to the genre myself, but I dug Snow Crash and I'm quite enjoying Cryptonomicon, thank-you-very-much. I think anyone who thinks that Shadowrun doesn't have a heavy dose of parody and silliness in it needs to step back a bit.
Turn to Goo? And that was SR1, eh?
| QUOTE (ES_Sparky) |
| Wow... an author can't write outside his genre? Really? |
If that author normally writes cyberpunk and decides to write historical fiction, evidence points to no.
~J
That is SO subjective.
Not at all. It's objective fact.
~J, bathing in the harsh light of reality
~J, bathing in the harsh light of reality
To actually add to the orginal topic of the thread:
I saw it mentionned once in this thread, and I don't remember having seen it in the other threads, but George Alec Effinger's trilogy, When Gravity Fails, A Fire in the Sun and The Exile Kiss are some good, pure, cyberpunk novels.
I saw it mentionned once in this thread, and I don't remember having seen it in the other threads, but George Alec Effinger's trilogy, When Gravity Fails, A Fire in the Sun and The Exile Kiss are some good, pure, cyberpunk novels.
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Jan 19 2007, 04:39 PM) | ||
If that author normally writes cyberpunk and decides to write historical fiction, evidence points to no. ~J |
i'm curious, what didn't you like about Cryptonomicon and/or the Baroque Cycle? also, a point: you can't really call Stephenson a cyberpunk author, if you're judging soleley on the amount of material he's written that's classic cyberpunk. this, despite the fact that he coined the generally-accepted term for the post-cyberpunk era.
If it weren't for all the digressions, Cryptonomicon might have made a nice 100-page novella.
Has anyone read "The Traveler"? By John Twelve Hawks.
This one really suprised me by its quality story.
It's not cyberpunk. It's more about Information Dystopia, like SR4. Set in the 2000-2010 era. Had a very Shadowrun feel to it.
These people called Harlequins are a secret pact of warriors that "live off the grid" and a sworn to protect the "Travellers." Travellers are special Humans that are gifted with the ability to project out of their bodies into other planes of existance. The travelers usually end up being large forces for change in society, (references are made to people like Jesus, MLK, Saints, etc. probably being travelers.)
Another organization is the illuminati like group that is a shadowy force behind the governments in the world. They want to create a perfectly controlled population through a concept called the panopticon. A type of prison. "The concept of the design is to allow an observer to observe (-opticon) all (pan-) prisoners without the prisoners being able to tell if they are being observed or not, thus conveying a "sentiment of an invisible omniscience." - wiki. You know surveillance cameras, centralized databases, RFID-like tags for each citizen. They of course hunt the travellers because they see them as agents of mass chance and chaos.
Really enjoyed the book.
This one really suprised me by its quality story.
It's not cyberpunk. It's more about Information Dystopia, like SR4. Set in the 2000-2010 era. Had a very Shadowrun feel to it.
These people called Harlequins are a secret pact of warriors that "live off the grid" and a sworn to protect the "Travellers." Travellers are special Humans that are gifted with the ability to project out of their bodies into other planes of existance. The travelers usually end up being large forces for change in society, (references are made to people like Jesus, MLK, Saints, etc. probably being travelers.)
Another organization is the illuminati like group that is a shadowy force behind the governments in the world. They want to create a perfectly controlled population through a concept called the panopticon. A type of prison. "The concept of the design is to allow an observer to observe (-opticon) all (pan-) prisoners without the prisoners being able to tell if they are being observed or not, thus conveying a "sentiment of an invisible omniscience." - wiki. You know surveillance cameras, centralized databases, RFID-like tags for each citizen. They of course hunt the travellers because they see them as agents of mass chance and chaos.
Really enjoyed the book.
(Just FYI: mfb, I'm not ignoring your question, but I don't have my copy of Cryptonomicon on-hand and I want to have it when I respond to make sure my memory is accurate. I'll have access to it in a few weeks.)
~J
~J
Most of my reading list has already been posted, a new addition would be Chris Moriarty, Spin State and Spin Control.
You might also try Synne Mitchell's Technogenesis, The Changeling Plague, and The Deathless Series. More Sci-fi than cyberpunk but full of ideas.
You might also try Synne Mitchell's Technogenesis, The Changeling Plague, and The Deathless Series. More Sci-fi than cyberpunk but full of ideas.
| QUOTE (SL James @ Jan 20 2007, 02:26 PM) |
| If it weren't for all the digressions, Cryptonomicon might have made a nice 100-page novella. |
true. but i tend to view the digressions as being the meat of the book; the actual story is just there as a framework. plus, well, it and the Baroque Cycle form a continuity, and i'm compulsive about continuities.
i really liked Technogenesis, more for the tech than the story. the idea of using psychology to hack brains is really neat.
| QUOTE (Warmaster Lah) |
| Another organization is the illuminati like group that is a shadowy force behind the governments in the world. They want to create a perfectly controlled population through a concept called the panopticon. A type of prison. "The concept of the design is to allow an observer to observe (-opticon) all (pan-) prisoners without the prisoners being able to tell if they are being observed or not, thus conveying a "sentiment of an invisible omniscience." - wiki. You know surveillance cameras, centralized databases, RFID-like tags for each citizen. They of course hunt the travellers because they see them as agents of mass chance and chaos. |
The omniscient guardian idea was first coined by Bentham. Why do I mention this? A) Because I happen to know this philosophical piece of information and couldn't resist posting it and B) if you liked the concept in the book, you might enjoy reading what Bentham's idea on the subject were.
Mostly A though.
Ok I have some great titles for you. Not all of these are cyberpunk, but they encapsulate some great aspects of the shadowrun world.
Transmetropolitan: an amazing comic book with major AR portrayal.
The Traveler: by John Twelve Hawks: this book is amazing and thought provoking and shows you just how right you are to be paranoid about being watched.
This last suggestion comes with a warning. I recommend any of the novels by Andrew Vacchs concerning his character burke (which is most of them). These novels are so amazing and dark and disturbing. Burke is the current day shadowrunner. A career criminal who does bad things for a living, but along the way does BAD BAD things to the worlds worst people. These books have some very disturbing content concerning crimes against children. Vacchs has worked his whole life protecting kids and he wrote these books as a way to open peoples eyes to the horrors of what goes on in our society. These are some of the best stories I have ever read.
If anyone has read these let me know what you think.
>>>sorry, got so excited that I didn't realize others had already recommended Transmetroolitan and The Traveler
Transmetropolitan: an amazing comic book with major AR portrayal.
The Traveler: by John Twelve Hawks: this book is amazing and thought provoking and shows you just how right you are to be paranoid about being watched.
This last suggestion comes with a warning. I recommend any of the novels by Andrew Vacchs concerning his character burke (which is most of them). These novels are so amazing and dark and disturbing. Burke is the current day shadowrunner. A career criminal who does bad things for a living, but along the way does BAD BAD things to the worlds worst people. These books have some very disturbing content concerning crimes against children. Vacchs has worked his whole life protecting kids and he wrote these books as a way to open peoples eyes to the horrors of what goes on in our society. These are some of the best stories I have ever read.
If anyone has read these let me know what you think.
>>>sorry, got so excited that I didn't realize others had already recommended Transmetroolitan and The Traveler
| QUOTE (mfb) | ||
true. but i tend to view the digressions as being the meat of the book; the actual story is just there as a framework. |
I wouldn't call it meat so much as a bunch of sides you eat while the entree (the supposed story it ostensibly tells) gets cold.
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