Seems pretty simple. Electricity normally does Stun. But the spell does Physical, and it just uses the elemental side effects of electricity. Works for me.

Indeed. The confusion stems from the fact that SR makes use of the word physical as part of two different dichtomies - the Physical/Mana choice of spells, and the Physical/Stun type of damage.

The question is really is Physical (Spell) equivalent to Physical (Damage)? I say no. I say Physical (Spell) simply defines whether you resist with body or will, and how it functions astrally. You can have a Physical (Spell) Stun (Damage) spell.

Substitute the word "Material" for "Physical (Spell)" and it's easier to read.

Err, yes you can have a (Physical) spell that does (Stun) damage.

It's called Punch/Clout/Blast.

Lightning spells are listed as P/P, and described as having electrical secondary damage. Looks simple enough to me.

it's not even a question, that's how spells like Clout work. indirect, physical, stun damage.

It seems to me a case o fthe specific overriding the general, so the spell does physical damage and has all the other side effects of an electrical attack.

There's something I don't understand (anymore) after reading this :

As I used to understand things :
- You cast a level 3 direct combat spell, and you get 3 hit. The target makes a body/willpower + counterspelling test. If he gets 3 hits or more, the spell doesn't work. If he only does 1 hits, the spell does 3 (level) + 1 (net hits) damage boxes

- You cast a level 3 indirect combat spell, and you get 3 hits. The target makes a reaction test. If he gets 3 hits or more, he dodges the attack. If he only gets 1 hit, he makes a resistance test against a 3 (level) + 1 (net hits) DV attack.

Is that correct ?
If not, can you please explain it to me in a simple way ? (preferably using my examples)

Thank you.

Blade: you are correct

Except that 3 hits for you - 1 hit for them is 2 net hits, not 1.

For those who don't undcerstand why Lightening does physical damage I propose a test. Get the longest conductive metal rod that you can possibly find, wait until the next thunderstorm. During this storm go outside with the metal rod and hold it up in the air veritically. Make sure that it is not grounded.

If you have any doubts that Lightening should cause physical damage after successfully completing this test then please feel free to post them.

stun overflow to physical?

WHile it is pretty clear the intent is the 'lightning' bolt spells does
override' the default rule of electricity does stun, (just as how it is going to be physical damage it you grab a high voltage line), that raises the question.

Anyone see a problem with a 'STUN' version of the lightning spells (and the corresponding -1dv).


(edit fixed spelling / typo: passed spell checker but was wrong, and I hate laptop keyboards)

Lightning.

Not Lighting.

Not Lightening.

Lightning.

Thank you.

Ahh, Critias. You're such a rouge.

"The author of this post takes no responsibility for injuries or death resulting from the readers own stupidity."

The effect of the Lightning Bolt spell is to do ELECTRICITY damage, this is stun as per the rules and in real life. Note if it stages up far enough it becomes physical, to simulate a lightning strike cast at force 20. having stick my fingers in plenty of plug sockets (no I'm not kidding, just foolish) mains power doesn't hurt much just leaves you woozy, prolonged exposure would probably kill. The spell has a butch name dont read to much into it.

Ophis, the spell itself specifies that it deals physical damage. It's a fairly common conept in games, especially CCGs and RPGs, that whenever a speicific rule seems to do something different from a general rule you follow the specific rule, but only in that case.

So if Lightning Bolt says its electricity damage is physical, it's electricity damage is physical. It doesn't matter what the effects of putting a finger in a socket are any more than it matters what the effects of an actual lightning bolt are. The spell does what the spell does.

It certainly wouldn't be a broken or abusive house rule to rule otherwise though.

If you're wanting to make a case for your viewpoint you might try a little more words, perhaps some rules quotes, or something. If you're just being rediculous yourself, then disregard this post.

Nope, Killing Hands and Elemental Strike as well as another can all stack and the damage is cumulative. Meaning your base DV for your Killing Hands (AFAIK Critical Strike do not have my BBB and SM at hand right now) and Elemental Strike each add their requisite damage to the target.

So what your saying is that Elemental strike means I do my killing hands damage and my elemental damage as two seperate lots on each hit? Ie my high karma phys ad does 9P fro killing hand and 9S (ignoring armour) for sonic Elemental strike. No way I'm letting that one through.

It is a challenge, but luckily you cannot use some of the other hand to hand additives with Killing Hands/Elemental Strike. The text states they require too much concentration. If you want to limit it more require centering metamagic prior to utilizing that combo.

Or i could just rule that Elememtal strike modifies the magical effect of Killing hands into instead generating the elemental effect, which is considerably less broken. Only Distance strike is disallowed for combining with elemental strike.

This is what i thought, Magus seemed to be applying it differently.

Elemental effects usually have a primary damage type and an secondary effect.
E.g.
Lightening does Stun damage plus a chance of temporarily incapacitating the target.
Blast does Physical damage plus a chance of knock back.
Light does Physical plus a glare penalty.

I took Elemental Strike to mean that the primary attack is always as normal (physical damage) but the adept gets the secondary effect as a bonus, too. Some of the elemental effects are therefore pretty good (e.g. Electricity), and others are quite weak or impossible to visualise (Sand?)

The questions remaining are what to use as Force for things like Blast which requires it, and whether or not Elemental Strike halves the target's impact armour. I think I'm going to go with Magic rating for the force. That's potentially quite powerful, but close combat types tend to get shot a lot in my game, so I don't mind. And I'm ruling out the half-impact.

The Secondary Elemental Effects would be the actual enhancement. Same damage code, but added side effects of the chosen Element.

[edit] As knasser beat me in stating. [/edit]

Yea... the text "electricity damage is stun damage" needs to be removed from the elemental electricity damage description. That way Lightning Bolt and Killing Hands can do physical, tazers and stun battons can do stun, and there won't be any contradictions in the rules.

So how is it? Does it stack or not?

Magus, the way it says "The specific elemental effect" and references the lists of secondary elemental effects, plus some basic reasoning from sanity since it is not a ranked power...

It doesn't increase damage. Whether it makes the damage you do absorbed by half impact is an entirely different question.