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Steak and Spirits
Frank Trollman contributing to Shadowrun Projects instills my confidence in Shadowrun material. He should post more. And assume full control of all future Shadowrun development.

Effectively immediately.
FrankTrollman
What brought that on?

-Frank
Draconis
Um ok, I second that. nyahnyah.gif
I think it was a horrible attempt at sarcasm.

Though shouldn't you start as governor of Seattle first?
Steak and Spirits
QUOTE (FrankTrollman)
What brought that on?

-Frank

Just the way I've seen you consistently rip-to-shit™ parts about the game that I've had problems with.
kzt
QUOTE (Steak and Spirits)
Just the way I've seen you consistently rip-to-shit™ parts about the game that I've had problems with.

And even his wacky ideas are well though out and logical wacky ideas.
Draconis
QUOTE (kzt @ Oct 28 2006, 06:36 PM)
QUOTE (Steak and Spirits @ Oct 28 2006, 01:07 PM)
Just the way I've seen you consistently rip-to-shit™ parts about the game that I've had problems with.

And even his wacky ideas are well though out and logical wacky ideas.

You should see our runs. biggrin.gif
There was that time with cowboy hat wearing zombies packing revolvers....

I'll get around to chronicling them one of these days.
Chandon
If Frank Trollman were in control of Shadowrun, he would change things so that they were clear and made sense. That would... stifle creativity... by destroying numerous opportunities for incoherent GM rulings!
Crowley
I've been hanging around for a while, and I am glad to have my first post be in this thread. Vanishingly small is the number of post of yours that I don't find interesting or useful. When I run SR, it will be with your chargen. You're a smart cookie.
Steak and Spirits
QUOTE (Crowley)
I've been hanging around for a while, and I am glad to have my first post be in this thread. Vanishingly small is the number of post of yours that I don't find interesting or useful. When I run SR, it will be with your chargen. You're a smart cookie.

I'm really drunk right now. Like 34.555% times the legal limit. But I'm glad to have you onboard. Because I can tell that you're the type of chap that would climb a bell-tower and let the world know how you felt.
Demerzel
You must be drunk to be doing math that bad. =P

34.555% times the legal limit is below the legal limit...
Kyoto Kid
QUOTE (Draconis)
You should see our runs.  biggrin.gif
There was that time with cowboy hat wearing zombies packing revolvers....

I'll get around to chronicling them one of these days.

...sounds like something KK would have liked to see...

..git along little undead... [sound of whip crack]

...lends a whole new meaning to the term, Rawhide
Triggerz
QUOTE (Steak and Spirits)
QUOTE (FrankTrollman @ Oct 28 2006, 10:44 AM)
What brought that on?

-Frank

Just the way I've seen you consistently rip-to-shit™ parts about the game that I've had problems with.

I totally agree. (The cost of an ally spirit's Force has been made linear (against Frank's will)?!? Why?!?)

So... Who's the German OverLord we have to contact to change FanPro's hierarchy? And when are we getting a fifth edition that will fix everything that's broken in the fourth? nyahnyah.gif
Triggerz
QUOTE (Crowley)
[...] When I run SR, it will be with your chargen. [...]

Sorry for the off-topic post, but I haven't heard about that chargen system and I couldn't find it anywhere in the forums. (I did search.) Has it been posted online somewhere? I'd like to get my hands on it as I'm currently trying to figure out how I can fix chargen in my game.
kzt
QUOTE (Triggerz)
Sorry for the off-topic post, but I haven't heard about that chargen system and I couldn't find it anywhere in the forums. (I did search.) Has it been posted online somewhere? I'd like to get my hands on it as I'm currently trying to figure out how I can fix chargen in my game.
Triggerz
Thanks a lot! smile.gif
Draconis
QUOTE (Kyoto Kid)
QUOTE (Draconis)
You should see our runs.  biggrin.gif
There was that time with cowboy hat wearing zombies packing revolvers....

I'll get around to chronicling them one of these days.

...sounds like something KK would have liked to see...

..git along little undead... [sound of whip crack]

...lends a whole new meaning to the term, Rawhide

First we put cowboy hats on em, then those novelty things that make them look like an arrow was going through their heads. Then we gave them revolvers that we had stolen from I think it was the Australian Navy. Now fully equipped we then sent them against the gates of a Mitsuhama corporate enclave, you know suburbs and stuff, after we rammed a truck full of napalm and explosives through the front gates. It was classic Dawn of the Dead. The object of the entire operation was to try and draw yakuza controlled japanese military helios to the east bay so we could shoot their asses down. And we did, unfortunately over a Stuffer Shack. It did make a good music video later though.

Ah the "Berserk Antipathy World Tour", good times.
Steak and Spirits
QUOTE (Demerzel)
You must be drunk to be doing math that bad. =P

34.555% times the legal limit is below the legal limit...

Nah. The >.< was the one that was drunk. So drunk infact that it didn't know it needed to between the '5' and the '5', not the '4' and the '5'...

...Uhh. Honest.

Domino
Do all you guys spit or swallow?
Steak and Spirits
QUOTE (Domino)
Do all you guys spit or swallow?


That's a pretty straightforward attempt at homosexual solicitation --- Arguably making up with raw effectiveness, what it lacks in subtlety. Very well, I approve, and wish you luck on your endeavour.

I wonder, however, if it might be more appropriately tagged in a 'Young&Impressionable Adolescent' forum, and not in the middle of the campaign to force Frank Trollman into the captain's chair.

Naturally, despite my reservation, I respect your right to recreate however you're inclined. smile.gif
Triggerz
QUOTE (Domino)
Do all you guys spit or swallow?

Domino, having respect for another man does not make anyone gay. You can recognize that some people are better at certain things than other people - or than *even you* -, and it will not kill you, and no carrot will materialize in your butt because of it. As a young man, it's not always easy to understand that some people other than yourself might be worthy of your respect - I know I wrestled with that a lot as a teenager -, but it's something you understand as you get older. I don't really expect my comment to change your mind, but I felt it had to be said.
Narmio
QUOTE (Triggerz)
QUOTE (Domino @ Oct 29 2006, 11:05 AM)
Do all you guys spit or swallow?

Domino, having respect for another man does not make anyone gay.

However, it's quite possible that having no sense of humour does.
Triggerz
QUOTE (Narmio)
However, it's quite possible that having no sense of humour does.

Ok, so do you want me to blow you now, or do you prefer I wait until your mom is gone?

Seriously, if it was a joke, I thought it was a rather sad one, but you're entitled to your own opinion.
Triggerz
By the way, I'm taking this thread seriously for a good reason. I've been playing SR since the very beginning of the second edition. It is now the fourth. I've re-learnt the game twice, but I wish it was the last time I ever have to do it. The fourth edition, in general, has pretty decent mechanics. However, there's a lot of stuff that makes you go "WTF?!?". And I was hoping that, this time around, I wouldn't see so many of these...
Triggerz
Oh! And no one answered the first question of my original post: Who's the German OverLord we have to contact to change FanPro's hierarchy?
Fortune
My first thought upon seeing the Topic was delight, as I was gleefully anticipating something along the lines of this thread. biggrin.gif
Draconis
QUOTE (Fortune)
My first thought upon seeing the Topic was delight, as I was gleefully anticipating something along the lines of this thread. biggrin.gif

Ugh I'm glad it's not and thanks for hurting my brain by putting that link there. I actually made the mistake of reading all that.
Fortune
Hey! It's a great thread ... at least until all that emo-crap™ at the end. wink.gif
Chandon
QUOTE (Fortune)
My first thought upon seeing the Topic was delight, as I was gleefully anticipating something along the lines of this thread. biggrin.gif

So, Frank, what do you think about Fortune's offer to pay you six figures to convert Shadowrun to d20?
Jaid
QUOTE (Chandon)
So, Frank, what do you think about Fortune's offer to pay you six figures to convert Shadowrun to d20?

bah, it's probably six action figures from some old show that no one watches anymore....

(not that i would mind if there was a shadowrun d20, but honestly SR4's system doesn't need fixing in enough places to justify changing the mechanics that much. now if we were talking about adapting SR4 to the SR3 system, but streamlined and unified, that could possibly go somewhere... )
Grinder
QUOTE (Triggerz @ Oct 30 2006, 04:46 AM)
Oh! And no one answered the first question of my original post: Who's the German OverLord we have to contact to change FanPro's hierarchy?

Post this question at the german SR-boards at the FanPro-website, but don't expect to find Overlord there. The current writers are more into childish "oh anarchy is so much better, especially in a dark future setting"-mood. ohplease.gif
emo samurai
QUOTE (Fortune)
Hey! It's a great thread ... at least until all that emo-crap™ at the end. wink.gif

I am proud of the emo-crap™.
Draconis
QUOTE (Chandon)
QUOTE (Fortune @ Oct 30 2006, 02:48 AM)
My first thought upon seeing the Topic was delight, as I was gleefully anticipating something along the lines of this thread. biggrin.gif

So, Frank, what do you think about Fortune's offer to pay you six figures to convert Shadowrun to d20?

Oh damn don't go there. That's like converting a sports car into a minivan that can seat 8 kids. He could do it in less than a day but why would he want to?
Draconis
QUOTE (emo samurai)
QUOTE (Fortune @ Oct 29 2006, 10:27 PM)
Hey! It's a great thread ... at least until all that emo-crap™ at the end. wink.gif

I am proud of the emo-crap™.

You would be. wink.gif
Triggerz
QUOTE (Fortune)
My first thought upon seeing the Topic was delight, as I was gleefully anticipating something along the lines of this thread. biggrin.gif

Man, you're evil... I read most of it. I skipped a few posts about music videos and other off-topic stuff. Seriously, the thread is best left dead. I, for one, won't revive it, even though I was twitching to reply on a few things. Anyways, DSers, please let that old thread rest in peace.

Let me add one thing about the topic of *this* thread though. I think that Rob has done - and is doing - a great job with the game world and the core mechanics, BUT... I think that all the material covering *rules* needs to be reviewed by someone extremely meticulous who also has a good maths brain. In my never-very-humble-although-I-try-hard opinion, I think that Frank has a good eye when it comes to rules. He is pretty good at spotting the stuff that's broken and his proposals to correct the problems are usually pretty sound, so I'll say it again, albeit in slightly different words: I think that if all SR4 rules had to receive the Frank Trollman Seal of Approval™, then less stuff would be broken.

Of course, different people have different preferences and gaming styles, so no one has to agree with me. I am just stating my own personal preferences as I feel entitled to do.
Triggerz
QUOTE (Grinder)
QUOTE (Triggerz @ Oct 30 2006, 04:46 AM)
Oh! And no one answered the first question of my original post: Who's the German OverLord we have to contact to change FanPro's hierarchy?

Post this question at the german SR-boards at the FanPro-website, but don't expect to find Overlord there. The current writers are more into childish "oh anarchy is so much better, especially in a dark future setting"-mood. ohplease.gif

Ok, thanks for the info.
TW
QUOTE (Grinder)
Post this question at the german SR-boards at the FanPro-website, but don't expect to find Overlord there. The current writers are more into childish "oh anarchy is so much better, especially in a dark future setting"-mood.  ohplease.gif

Oh, are they?

For the record, ever since DidS2 (Germany in the shadows II, German-only), the general direction followed by the German developers/freelancers was to iron out the most blatant rip-o... err ...kinks in the AGS setting and make it a more plausible setting that blends into the overall SR3 background rather than sticking out like a sore thumb.
SoE and BP:ADL (Target:AGS, also German-only) pursued this goal further, as did the german-only add-on to System failure. For SR4, both the added Material to the Hamburg chapter in Runner Havens (German version only) as well as the Munich sourcebook (again, German-only material) are no different...

I dont want to hi-jack the thread, feel free to drop me a PM in case you want to discuss in more detail.
Draconis
QUOTE (TW @ Oct 30 2006, 05:09 PM)
QUOTE (Grinder)
Post this question at the german SR-boards at the FanPro-website, but don't expect to find Overlord there. The current writers are more into childish "oh anarchy is so much better, especially in a dark future setting"-mood.  ohplease.gif

Oh, are they?

For the record, ever since DidS2 (Germany in the shadows II, German-only), the general direction followed by the German developers/freelancers was to iron out the most blatant rip-o... err ...kinks in the AGS setting and make it a more plausible setting that blends into the overall SR3 background rather than sticking out like a sore thumb.
SoE and BP:ADL (Target:AGS, also German-only) pursued this goal further, as did the german-only add-on to System failure. For SR4, both the added Material to the Hamburg chapter in Runner Havens (German version only) as well as the Munich sourcebook (again, German-only material) are no different...

I dont want to hi-jack the thread, feel free to drop me a PM in case you want to discuss in more detail.

Bleh, I hate the fact that there's material out there I haven't read. I really liked the original Germany book I wouldn't mind seeing the german only stuff in english.

Oh and yes Frank attacks rules like a rabid pitbull to see if they break. He'll take your rules for a spin around the block and see if he can do doughnuts in your parking lot with em. biggrin.gif
I'm partial to fluff myself. Mmmm chewy fluff. I'll gnaw on your story like it was a squeaky toy.
fool
He can't be worse than the current Resident
Triggerz
I studied philosophy for two years a while back. The best way to test a system is to attack it with all of your might. Whatever's left once you're done might be worth further investigation and might even be a decent working assumption until you find something better. If you want solid rules and fluff, you have to attack them viciously until most of them have been torn to shreds. Then you'll much more easily see the really great stuff.
Triggerz
QUOTE (Draconis)
Oh and yes Frank attacks rules like a rabid pitbull to see if they break. He'll take your rules for a spin around the block and see if he can do doughnuts in your parking lot with em. biggrin.gif
I'm partial to fluff myself. Mmmm chewy fluff. I'll gnaw on your story like it was a squeaky toy.

By the way, I took a look at the character you posted on livejournal a little while ago. Pretty cool! smile.gif The fluff is really tasty, and I really like the way you guys turned the character's concept into something playable rule-wise.
TW
QUOTE (Draconis)
Bleh, I hate the fact that there's material out there I haven't read. I really liked the original Germany book I wouldn't mind seeing the german only stuff in english.

I don't really feel like commenting on the first Germany sourcebook, but the summarized translation of the German-only campaign Shockwaves is something more recent and also quite good, IMO
Grinder
QUOTE (TW)
QUOTE (Grinder)
Post this question at the german SR-boards at the FanPro-website, but don't expect to find Overlord there. The current writers are more into childish "oh anarchy is so much better, especially in a dark future setting"-mood.  ohplease.gif

Oh, are they?

For the record, ever since DidS2 (Germany in the shadows II, German-only), the general direction followed by the German developers/freelancers was to iron out the most blatant rip-o... err ...kinks in the AGS setting and make it a more plausible setting that blends into the overall SR3 background rather than sticking out like a sore thumb.
SoE and BP:ADL (Target:AGS, also German-only) pursued this goal further, as did the german-only add-on to System failure. For SR4, both the added Material to the Hamburg chapter in Runner Havens (German version only) as well as the Munich sourcebook (again, German-only material) are no different...

I dont want to hi-jack the thread, feel free to drop me a PM in case you want to discuss in more detail.

Yeah, but still there are too many unplausible mini-states and "shiny happy anarchist wet dream" East Berlin.
Great improvement, really. The metaplot doesn't move on when it comes to AGS.
Grinder
QUOTE (Triggerz)
QUOTE (Grinder @ Oct 30 2006, 04:44 AM)
QUOTE (Triggerz @ Oct 30 2006, 04:46 AM)
Oh! And no one answered the first question of my original post: Who's the German OverLord we have to contact to change FanPro's hierarchy?

Post this question at the german SR-boards at the FanPro-website, but don't expect to find Overlord there. The current writers are more into childish "oh anarchy is so much better, especially in a dark future setting"-mood. ohplease.gif

Ok, thanks for the info.

No problem. smile.gif
Draconis
QUOTE (Triggerz)
QUOTE (Draconis @ Oct 30 2006, 12:55 PM)
Oh and yes Frank attacks rules like a rabid pitbull to see if they break. He'll take your rules for a spin around the block and see if he can do doughnuts in your parking lot with em.  biggrin.gif
I'm partial to fluff myself. Mmmm chewy fluff. I'll gnaw on your story like it was a squeaky toy.

By the way, I took a look at the character you posted on livejournal a little while ago. Pretty cool! smile.gif The fluff is really tasty, and I really like the way you guys turned the character's concept into something playable rule-wise.

Aw now you're making me blush. embarrassed.gif

I'm definately writing up the space runs after they're done as that's just too cool to pass up. I loved the movie Red Planet.
Triggerz
I'm looking forward to reading those.
ChicagosFinest
QUOTE (Draconis)

Aw now you're making me blush. embarrassed.gif

I'm definately writing up the space runs after they're done as that's just too cool to pass up. I loved the movie Red Planet.

Can we find out who was the dragon on mars when you write this up? If the powers that be let you bring those bones back to earth to wrecl some havok on the world some how some way thgouth a meta-plot
Asheron
I had the fortune of being a player of Frank's for a while, and his rule mastery is awesome. His thoughts on the cost of cyberware, both in essence and monetary, were really cool.

You should hear what he has to say about D&D rules.
Chandon
QUOTE (Asheron)
You should hear what he has to say about D&D rules.

Has he come up with something more fun to do with D&D than just to declare that "the GM will make no rulings that make the rules less advantageous to the players" and then bask in the amusing results?
emo samurai
The master has yet to post. I eagerly await the master. *Rubs hands together and cringes*

On a more serious note, Frank, post your fucking cyberware rules. And possible rules for toxic spirits, because I intend to use those.
FrankTrollman
D&D? Yeah, I do D&D once in a while. It really requires a vast array of house rulings to keep it afloat. So vast that they end up being things like The Dungeonomicon when coalated. Ouch.

QUOTE
On a more serious note, Frank, post your fucking cyberware rules.


Sorry, no can do. Augmentation is not out yet., so any idea that I have which may or may not be incorporated into that book is out of bounds for publishing online. Contracts and such. But nice try. wink.gif

QUOTE
And possible rules for toxic spirits, because I intend to use those.


Sure. That book is over and done with and I didn't get my way on Toxic spirits in the final printing. Might as well have another go at it.

Each Toxic Tradition is defined individually, with its own spirits. Personally, I'm dead set against the concept of toxic paths granting attribute modifiers to spirits (since that ends up with spirits like the "sludge spirit" that aren't even tangentially related to normal spirits, which is awkward and hard to manage). But there's nothing wrong with spirits trading powers out for different powers for a special tradition (in the same manner as Kaballah trades Materialization for Possession). So the key to making a reasonabl sensible and balanced Toxic tradition is to have a unified theme, select five spirit types, and perform 1:1 tradeous of powers only in that they stick to the theme better. To that extent, let's put together a Toxic Tradition real quick:

Radiation
The follower of Radiation wants to permeate the world with the deadly rays that emanate from the atom. She might believe that she is cleansing the world of the "sickness" of life or she might just want to hasten the end of order. Whatever her motives, she draws strength from the poisonous yellow dust that drives away all others.

Basic Spirits:
Fallout Spirit (Air Spirit) Health
    The poison clouds released from a nuclear explosion are spoken of with fear and disgust by those not of the Toxic Tradition. But the fact that this poison strikes unseen, odorless and silent through the lands seeding the soil and the rain with the power of the atom - that's seen through the eyes of the poisoner as a lifegiver. Fallout Spirits manifest as a terrifying heaviness of the air, the winds blow hot and dry and the sky hangs like lead upon those caught in its dreadful glare.

    Power Swap: Fear and Noxious Breath are standard powers, Movement and Search are removed from the standard power list. Movement and Silence are added to the optional powers list.

Source Spirit (Earth Spirit) Detection
    Forged from the radioactive ore or nuclear tailings from which the dark light shines, the Source Spirit is a patient watcher. Appearing as an angry and burning pile of uranium or worse, the Source Spirit appears ready to battle on a moment's notice. But their fierce appearance belies a more subtle nature, for they are well aware that their strength will diminish scantly in a hundred or even a thousand years. They are deadly now, and their plans extend to the ends of time.

    Power Swap: Diving and Energy Aura are standard powers. Binding and Guard are removed from the standard powers list.

Radiation Spirit (Fire Spirit) Manipulation
    The atomic light itself, the spirit of the very essence of radiation appears as a static filled breach in the field of view of cameras or normal vision that is surrounded by a shimmering nimbus of light. In a way it is beautiful, and perhaps it is this tortuous beauty that draws a poisoner to this path. Spirits of Radiation are the movers of the radioactivity pantheon and can be called upon for all kinds of diverse tasks.

    Power Swap: None. All of the Fire Spirit's elemental attacks and auras are - obviously - going to be "Radiation" element, but seriously the Fire Spirit's base power set is spot on.

Heavy Water Spirit (Water Spirit) Illusion
    Capricious and tempermental, the heavy water spirit is an unbearable heaviness . Perhaps the most human of the spirits of Radiation, the spirit of the heavy waters represents the artifice of channelling the power of the atom and the dangers that touching the smallest fire can bring. It is a trickster at heart, choosing at times to appear to offer aid to humans, only to cruelly remove its protections at the last. Appearing as a man or woman composed of water, scenes can be seen with near crystal clarity through its body, but the transmissio of light takes an exceedingly long time. Space behind the spirit is distorted thus through the lens of time and the scene it paints is one long past. The air around it glows with a faint and ominous blue light.

    Power Swap: Add Guard to the standard powers list. Remove Search from the standard powers list. Add Innate Spell and Desire Reflection to the optional powers list. Remove Guard and Weather Control from the optional powers list.
Flowering Spirit (Plant Spirit) Combat
    Even in the face of harsh radioactive fires, pplants still grow. On the fields of atomic blasts, flowers bloom, and even in the heart of radioactive power plants a sticky lichen grows. The Flowering Spirit represents life in the face of adversity and to the poisoner this is a terrifying concept indeed. The creation of life and the proliferation of vasculature and bud is a mark of incomprehensible horror. To the observer with a more traditional viewpoint, there is nothing overtly ominous about the Flowering Spirit. It is just a mass of unruly vines, moss, or leaves. And yet, something about its radioactive nature seaps into the conciousness of any mortal onlooker - there is something indescribably wrong about this innocuous form of vegetation. This wrongness gnaws at the soul, where its destructive power is unleashed in full.

    Power Swap: Add Influence to the standard powers. Remove Fear from the standard powers. Add Venom and Energy Aura to the Optional Powers. Remove Movement and Search from the Optional Powers.

---

It's mostly just flavor and presentation. A Toxic Tradition doesn't have to be anything that's amazingly different game mechanically from a "normal" magician to get the appropriate look and feel. With some similar flavor text you could have a tradition based around plague (Man, Beast, Guardian, Task, Water), or Acid (Air, Earth, Water, Plant, Beast). The power swaps don't need to be amazingly big, but in general if you're going to add a signature power (like innate spell), you should remove a signature power (like Weather Control), while removing a workmanly power like Movement should make room for another workmanly power like Concealment.

-Frank
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