Hyzmarca, Sprites aren't listed according the the critter stat block anyway. Sapience is a critter power. Sprites also don't have an essence score, or body stats, or any of that. This is because we're looking at a set of matrix stats.

If we really want to argue it, I'd point out that none of the contacts have the sapience power, so they must not be sentient either.

I'm even more of a hardass when it comes to agents. In my game agents can only make matrix tests if they are running the appropriate program. If they don't have that program, they can't make the check.

I also use the Logic + Skill, hits limited by program house rule. With that house rule, I assume that Agents don't actually have any skills naturally, just a logic score. They take no penalty for defaulting, however. If you want your agent to have the appropriate skill, you need to load it as a skillsoft, which counts as a program that it's running.

Finally, I'm considering making a difference between hardcoded agents, which have their programs built in, and Frame agents, which can have their programs switched out by the hacker during a run. The latter will be much more expensive.

Of course, sprites have their skills listed, at their rating, so they don't have this problem. Making sprites much more awesome.

For the technomancer, Logic+ Skill (limited by Program) becomes Resonance + Skill (limited by complex form). This makes threading a more interesting proposal, as it increases the number of hits you can keep, but decreases your actual dice pool. In some cases that's useless, in others, it's awesome.

Just a bit of exageration to help my case there, sorry about that There should be a lot of situations that an agent is unable to solve, but I don't think they should be unable to adapt at all.

One thing worth noting:

Because they are just programs, sprites (and agents) have no edge.

_That_ is why they will never replace TMs and Hackers.

Oh, and Sprites biggest advantage over Agents isn't any form of "sapience". They ain't any more sapient than any other expert program. Their big advantage is their _powers_. Agents have the same stats, the same skills, and the same programs. But they can't get the supression power of a hacking sprite, for example. That by itself is worth a lot.

i suppose it depends on what you mean by 'solve'. a drone that shoots its way through a terrified bystander who's blocking the way to the drone's objective certainly solved the problem presented to it. whether or not it was a good solution depends on the player and the situation. a sprite-run drone might, i think, be more likely to shout at the bystander to get out of the way than simply attack or look for another way around. the difference isn't in their ability to solve problems, it's in the solutions they are capable of inventing and applying.

Ok, I am now going to weigh in with my opinion of TM's for what it is worth, take it or leave it as you see fit. (Slightly off topic as well, not trying to Hijack the thread, but this was the best place I could find.)

First, in another thread (which I can't seem to locate at the moment) someone suggested that threading should be a complex action on it's own, before using the CF, I disagree strongly, I see it as very much equal to spell casting with magic, and I think it is a part of the usage of the action which would require that CF (which are normaly complex actions, in and of themselves.

For example, My Newly created tm, tweaked for Matrix Combat, is convenently facing a newly created Hacker also tweaked for same. Both Running Hot (Doh)

So, we init off, TM rolling 11 die, Hack, rolling the same number so that is pretty equal, either could possibly squeeze a couple more dice out of Init, but this is a pretty fair number for two new characters.

So, because I am playing the devil's advocate here, we say my beloved TM wins the init (barely), but the Hacker is prepared and has appropriate defenses in place.

The first thing I do is thread my Attack CF which I already have at a 6, because I'm a cyber combat twink I roll 4 (Prog) + 6 (Res)+2 (Hot) = 12 dice Pool (4+ Hits is average here). I like 4 so even If I manage to roll more, I only take 4 hits.

My Fading DV is 4p because the final rating is higher than my Res. I roll 5 (Will)+ 6 (Res)+2 (Hot) = 13 Dice Pool (4+ hits still average with a slight 1 die edge), so on average I soak the drain.

Lets assume in this case, my luck holds, and just like winning init I soak (barely). I now Get to roll 10 (My threaded attack CF) + 4 (cybercombat) + 2 (Hot) = 16 pool vs Hacker 5 (Response) + 5 (Firewall) + 2 (Hot) = 12 pool.

If I hit for one net, He now get's to soak an 11 DV Attack, with A max of 12 dice (System) + (Armor) + (Hot) (Not sure how Hot Sim helps Soak here or for Fading resist, but It says ALL Matrix tests) so Lets say He gets lucky and negates 5 hits, He takes 6 damage and it's now his turn...

...Provided My Fault Sprite I had on standby doesn't get it's turn yet.

I will Post the Hackers side soon as if he won Init. for comparison.

(Edited for Clarity and to correct some math)

Hmm... your damage values are wrong, Dantic. Your attack would have done 10DV base due to your attack CF being at a modified rank 10 (6+4).
Then you have to figure in the fact that you now have a -2 dicepool modifier on everything since you are sustaining that CF.

So if you hit that hacker with 1 net hit, you wipe him out because 6 system gives him 11 matrix 'HP', which just so happens to be the damage you just did to him... Now think about this, what if you just attacked him with Blackout or Black Hammer?

This is why TM's should have to spend 1 Complex action to thread a CF and not do it for free. I'm all for TMs, hell I play one in my main game, but I know that this could be really game breaking on the matrix side.

Threading is the TM equivalent of casting a spell. It has Drain (fading, whatever) and it imposes a sustaining penalty. If they didn't explicitly point out it takes a complex action to do, then I for one think that the intent was loud and clear on this one. The example you give comes off as "I want to be able to do thins because it's powerful and cool" rather than "This is a flaw in the rules", so the argument is unconvincing.

And that's coming from ME, proud member of the house rule collective.

The main problem with your last argument is that 'Technomancers are not Hackers!' Save the flamethrowers and Maltovs for another day and let me finish.
If you try and play a TM just like a normal everyday hacker, you will be a karma and BP sink from hell. You have to work around it and use their strengths, which would be their Sprites. Yes, TMs can surf the Matrix with the power of their minds, its cool. They 'can' perform like a hacker and do things themselves, but why should they? TM's have an unlimited amount of disposable agents that have superpowers that top that of even a TM playing a hacker.

I fall back on the Sammy/Adept argument that, 'even though they might perform the same abilities, they do it in different ways'. Same thing with a Hacker/TM. The Hacker is your Sammy, your TM is the Adept.
Your TM might be able to max out higher than the Hacker due to threading, but once you do that, you have spent alot of Karma or BP to do so. Just being a 'Pet master' saves alot of points to be spent elsewhere, and still lets you perform all the same matrix crap you would have anyways. All you have to do is compile a Rank 12 sprite and whammo, you have a hacker better than any other right on your victim's doorstep. You dont even have to register it and god help you if you do.

Uhhhh, I think I have a headache now.

Let's see, your example for threading/spellcasting, Invisability is a specific spell, not all spells are sustained or, can be sustained, so I disagree, just because a TM threads a CF, doesn't automaticaly make it sustained, If you only threaded this action phase.

What does the bold printed, 'Technomancers are not Hackers!' have to do with the price of soycaf?

Sprites are not limitless. You can have up to your Charisma in registered sprites (active or on standby) and one unregistered sprite. I think anyone who limits playing a TM to a pet manager is sorely limiting themselves to what can be acomplished. This isn't a MMORPG, if you can think of a way to do it within the framework of the rules, go for it.

No two Technomancers have to be played the same. As I stated before, you can sacrifice up to 1 point of Res for cyberware, and concentrate on fewer skills, and CF's and make a viable TM/Rigger.

Threading allows you to do things without having to spend all that Karma/BP if you so desire. I don't have to know every CF to a rating equal to my Res, most simple non-hacking programs, I can mimic to a usable rating, starting from zero, without facing physical Fading DV, as opposed to trying to compile a sprite above my Res (rating 12 ?!?).

Compiling a sprite at a rating above my Res causes physical DV fading at a rating of twice the hits of the Sprite on the opposed test, be my guest, whip up that dandy rating 12. I'd rater stick with maxing non-registered sprites at rating = Res and register higher rating sprites.

Personaly I would prefer so save the need to risk physical damage from the use of my own powers to a time when the chips are really down, and I need to take that risk to save my own precious butt, than every time I feel the need to compile an un-registered sprite.