Hi all,
In SR3, LTGs, RTGs or PLTGs hosted systems providing a external iconography of the hosts in its section of the Matrix. These upstream-providers persisted external imagery of what you "saw" before you accessed the target host. Since there are no Matrix Service Providers (MSP) or upstream-providers for Nodes how's this done in SR4?
Given you have to login directly to a Node, you take-on the Nodes own Iconography or provide your own Reality Filter. I think some Nodes would allow connecting Nodes to "pass in" their external visualization data else, you'd only see the Node you currently occupy. Like independant islands, Nodes and Systems may or may-not allow connected Nodes to share their external Iconography.
I'd assume, public-data-hubs would have lots of public-nodes to help sustain external iconography while bouncing from Node-to-Node.
How do you handle (or explain) external VR visualization of players (in Node) surroundings?
Thanks,
~GTT
Full Version: VR Visualization of the Matrix
I'll take a stab at this....
Consider the icons like you said, as islands. But in a city those islands would be buildings. Think of each building as a node and relate it to being a coordinate system. Ie: this node is located at this coordinate while the node i have to go to is like another coordinate.
It's esentially like the matrix movie's when in full vr and that tom cruise movie in ar. Therefore I would assume you provide your own reality filter based on the programed settings in your comlink (think the xbox live memory drives where you can register your screen name and create a profile). So like you thought nodes and Systems may or may-not allow connected Nodes to share their external Iconography dependant on how secure or non secure the system is (public vs. private or layers of both).
How do you handle (or explain) external VR visualization of players (in Node) surroundings? Well depends on where they are. I'm assuming Aztechnology will have a jungle desert looking feel to it while Ares might look like a smithy.
Does that help?
Consider the icons like you said, as islands. But in a city those islands would be buildings. Think of each building as a node and relate it to being a coordinate system. Ie: this node is located at this coordinate while the node i have to go to is like another coordinate.
It's esentially like the matrix movie's when in full vr and that tom cruise movie in ar. Therefore I would assume you provide your own reality filter based on the programed settings in your comlink (think the xbox live memory drives where you can register your screen name and create a profile). So like you thought nodes and Systems may or may-not allow connected Nodes to share their external Iconography dependant on how secure or non secure the system is (public vs. private or layers of both).
How do you handle (or explain) external VR visualization of players (in Node) surroundings? Well depends on where they are. I'm assuming Aztechnology will have a jungle desert looking feel to it while Ares might look like a smithy.
Does that help?
| QUOTE (ChicagosFineset) |
| Consider the icons like you said, as islands. But in a city those islands would be buildings. Think of each building as a node and relate it to being a coordinate system. Ie: this node is located at this coordinate while the node i have to go to is like another coordinate. |
Problem is in RAW, you can't have a Node in a node. You can't have a larger "super node" that contains more Nodes/Systems.
My understanding of SR4 is that you have to visualize the matrix from the Node you are currently occupying. The Node can let external connections "pass in" visualization information, or deny them leaving only its own visualization data or your Persona's.
so you dont envision them as having layers? 1 node and a million layers that make up that node? Like a room in a building would be considered a differant node but the stuff in the room would be your info and pay data.
Hmmm.... anyone else got an idea?
Hmmm.... anyone else got an idea?
Without a reality filter how does my node/commlink present the image of an external node/commlink?
There's no reason it can't be presented just like it used to be. I would think as part of any node identifying itself it would have information telling what it would like to be displayed as.
There's no reason it can't be presented just like it used to be. I would think as part of any node identifying itself it would have information telling what it would like to be displayed as.
| QUOTE |
| Without a reality filter how does my node/commlink present the image of an external node/commlink? |
You have a built-in RF to do basic interpretation, but it provides no bonuses. I was referring to loading a Reality Filter program in my example that tries and force your Reality over that of the Node you occupy.
| QUOTE (DireRadiant @ Nov 3 2006, 02:09 PM) |
| There's no reason it can't be presented just like it used to be. I would think as part of any node identifying itself it would have information telling what it would like to be displayed as. |
The elements that make up the matrix have changed.
Pre-SR4 there was a host system be it LTG/RTG/PLTG. That host would provide the "look and feel" of the surrounding evironment all the systems it would host sit in. Visual information was passed to LTG/RTG/PLTG so you could visualize it while you where in the LTG/RTG/PLTG.
With SR4, there is no host system. You login directly to a Node. Unless there are public access nodes available to present the visualization of say, Downtown Seattle, and unless the Node you occupy permits "outside" visual information from other connected Nodes, you'll only see what the Node permits you to see.
Yes the matrix could work the same as it has in the past but that would require Nodes you occupy to show connected Node information. You have to get the visual info from someplace to know and see what's around you.
I think that your commlink is still connected to some kind of general telecommunication grid. It could be made by hopping from nodes to nodes, but this would considerably slow down traffic, this would be terrible for privacy and that'd prevent megacorps and states from listening to your conversations.
The way I view it, it's still a bit like previous editions : you persona starts in your commlink. If you exit your commlink from the "door", you come out in a "city" with nodes being buildings. Bigger network can still appear as buildings with independant nodes being rooms : the nodes are linked together (maybe through subscription) and appear together in the Matrix. This way, the Matrix Topology isn't always exactly the same as the Real World topolgy : if a node in Seattle is linked to a node in Tokyo, in the Matrix you'll see the two of them together in the same building.
The way I view it, it's still a bit like previous editions : you persona starts in your commlink. If you exit your commlink from the "door", you come out in a "city" with nodes being buildings. Bigger network can still appear as buildings with independant nodes being rooms : the nodes are linked together (maybe through subscription) and appear together in the Matrix. This way, the Matrix Topology isn't always exactly the same as the Real World topolgy : if a node in Seattle is linked to a node in Tokyo, in the Matrix you'll see the two of them together in the same building.
There is no mention of TelComGrids or a "Host" or "Providers" in SR4. You could abstract LTG/RTG/PLTG as "supernodes" but I don't see a hint at anything like that in SR4.
Another thing to consider is that in order to make a Comlink call, you'd have to hop nodes to deliver your message as well as receive calls which means there's probably a service provider somplace. IF not and SR4 is indeed just one big-ass collection of Nodes, lots of those nodes would be letting "public" traffic use them to bounce messages. Otherwise, it would be a combination of satelites and nodes to relay the messages.
Maybe my perspective is off here, but I am doing my best to piece this together from RAW.
Thanks all for your insights so far.
Another thing to consider is that in order to make a Comlink call, you'd have to hop nodes to deliver your message as well as receive calls which means there's probably a service provider somplace. IF not and SR4 is indeed just one big-ass collection of Nodes, lots of those nodes would be letting "public" traffic use them to bounce messages. Otherwise, it would be a combination of satelites and nodes to relay the messages.
Maybe my perspective is off here, but I am doing my best to piece this together from RAW.
Thanks all for your insights so far.
Found it. Here it is :
| QUOTE ("SR4 p. 206 - Matrix Topology") |
| The Matrix a complex organism, a vast collection of billions of nodes all linked together in various networks that are themselves linked together. At the bottom layer of the pyramid are individual users with their commlinks and personal area networks (p. 210). These users and PANs wirelessly interact with other PANs and devices all around them in a wireless mesh network. Homes and offices are integrated through a terminal—or term for short—that tends to serve as its multimedia center (image scanner, full-size printer, video screen or holo display, larger speakers, and so on). This network connects through numerous gateways and hardwired base stations to the local Matrix infrastructure; together, they form a telecommunications grid. These grids are, in turn, interlinked, forming the backbone of the Matrix itself. |
So, I think that explains clearly what it's like, and it seems to be the same way it was before. Your commlink connects to public wi-fi routers (signal 6 - 10km (in the Signal Rating table)) or to the residential/business wifi router if you're at home or at work. In the first case, your node appears in the virtual "street" while in the second case it'll appear in the virtual "building" (a small network inside the telecommunication grid).
| QUOTE (GrinderTheTroll) |
| There is no mention of TelComGrids |
Strangley enough, in "On the Run" it mentions one of the NPCs giving the characters her LTG number when they want to speak to her. Being from England (and also assuming that there was no LTG in 2070), it took me a little while to figure out what it was talking about.
| QUOTE (Blade) | ||
Found it. Here it is :
So, I think that explains clearly what it's like, and it seems to be the same way it was before. Your commlink connects to public wi-fi routers (signal 6 - 10km (in the Signal Rating table)) or to the residential/business wifi router if you're at home or at work. In the first case, your node appears in the virtual "street" while in the second case it'll appear in the virtual "building" (a small network inside the telecommunication grid). |
Still no mention of a service provider, just folks sharing connections allowing others to hope across their nodes that form a communications grid (one large mesh). This is no AT&T 2070, no XBell, no Service Providers, just a collection of individual efforts.
We could assume that nodes let traffic pass through them since there is no "cost" for bandwidth like present-day. We could also assume visualization data is also allowed to pass, although I could see some nodes denying some of this sort of traffic.
As far as an LTG Number goes, it would have to change to the individual commcode since there is no Service Provider to manage a device/LTG# relationship. It would be like talking using IP addresses.
I think there are service providers (just because corps won't lose this opportunity to get some money off your back even if bandwith is free) : you need to have one to register to a public wifi access point (I know registering to something public sounds weird, but that may be the case). Through this public access node you can access to nodes outside your signal (in this case, the "visual" information is relayed by the node).
Apart from that, you can still see the nodes that are in both ranges of your signal and their (if they aren't in hidden mode), but they won't relay traffic from your node if they aren't setup to do it.
Apart from that, you can still see the nodes that are in both ranges of your signal and their (if they aren't in hidden mode), but they won't relay traffic from your node if they aren't setup to do it.
| QUOTE (GrinderTheTroll) |
| We could assume that nodes let traffic pass through them since there is no "cost" for bandwidth like present-day. We could also assume visualization data is also allowed to pass, although I could see some nodes denying some of this sort of traffic. As far as an LTG Number goes, it would have to change to the individual commcode since there is no Service Provider to manage a device/LTG# relationship. It would be like talking using IP addresses. |
Communicating using hardcoded device addresses, without any central infrastructure? With the path to reach your address changing constantly, but there is no way to tell anyone what it is? This means that either every node needs to need to maintain state on where every other umpteen billion device is (which changes several time a second as each device moves maybe a meter) or it doesn't work.
Somehow I feel obliged to vote for "It doesn't work".
| QUOTE (GrinderTheTroll) |
| Yes the matrix could work the same as it has in the past but that would require Nodes you occupy to show connected Node information. You have to get the visual info from someplace to know and see what's around you. |
In Runner Havens it describes the view of all Seattle Nodes as the "Emerald City" theme as a default. Nodes do present an external view.
| QUOTE (kzt) | ||
Communicating using hardcoded device addresses, without any central infrastructure? With the path to reach your address changing constantly, but there is no way to tell anyone what it is? This means that either every node needs to need to maintain state on where every other umpteen billion device is (which changes several time a second as each device moves maybe a meter) or it doesn't work. Somehow I feel obliged to vote for "It doesn't work". |
I am inclinded to agree 100%.
I just don't see any underlying mechanism in SR4 to support the Matrix. If there is, they are being really, really general about it.
There is a central infrastructure : the telecommunication grid. You connect to the closest public wi-fi router, which registers your presence and forwards your communications to you, just like it's done today with mobile phones (except for satellite based mobile-phones).
I thought that it said in the book that commcodes are registered through telecomm services. (Runners using "black" commcodes that are faked by means not all that different from fake SINs, I imagine.) I don't know how much more plausible that makes it, because I don't really know a lot about telecommunications networks so I don't think too hard about it.
| QUOTE (Blade) |
| There is a central infrastructure : the telecommunication grid. You connect to the closest public wi-fi router, which registers your presence and forwards your communications to you, just like it's done today with mobile phones (except for satellite based mobile-phones). |
If you PAY someone to maintain a central registry this becomes vaguely doable. You end up, in theory, with proxy mobile IP that works. However you need very fast and low latency links to the registry. The issue I'd see is that unless there is a real structure imposed on the network, a real carrier whose job it is to keep you connected or have a huge number of registries you are going to get dropped a lot.
For example, assume your registry is on the other side of the world, say 20,000 km as the fiber goes. Speed of light in fiber is 200,000 KM/sec. Assume you are switching nodes 3 times a second (a fairly minimal number in a car at 30+ meters a second). You have, 3 times a second, a 0.2 second process where you are telling the registry how to reach you as you are handed off to anther node. So you have 40% of the time that you can actually conduct a conversation. I'll suggest that this is not what most people consider acceptable.
And there is also a huge vulnerability here to a denial of service attack. Want to keep Joe from getting a call? Have 10 streams of data providing routing changes streaming at his providers registry at 2 times per second each. You could argue "encryption!" but RAW has stupidly declared that encryption doesn't work. So you're screwed.
You should probably not use the phrase Wi-Fi, it just confuses matters since the game is suggesting something that has a lot more capability, intelligence and bandwidth than the wireless hub that is modern Wi-Fi.
I use wi-fi, because the BBB uses wifi to describe wireless matrix connexions.
Anyway, cell-phones work, Wi-max is supposed to work in mobile communications (don't know how that particular use is called in English) why couldn't mobile matrix connexion work ?
Also (and more importantly and to the point), why should we bother about wondering if it's possible with today technology to play it in a fictional universe set in 2070 ? But I guess that asking this is pointless in DSF
Anyway, cell-phones work, Wi-max is supposed to work in mobile communications (don't know how that particular use is called in English) why couldn't mobile matrix connexion work ?
Also (and more importantly and to the point), why should we bother about wondering if it's possible with today technology to play it in a fictional universe set in 2070 ? But I guess that asking this is pointless in DSF
| QUOTE (Blade) |
| I use wi-fi, because the BBB uses wifi to describe wireless matrix connexions. Anyway, cell-phones work, Wi-max is supposed to work in mobile communications (don't know how that particular use is called in English) why couldn't mobile matrix connexion work ? |
Your dwell time with a wireless phone is a lot longer, as they have ranges of miles, not meters. Your handset is typically communicating to multiple towers that carry signals from the same company at the same time, with the handset choosing the "best" signal based on power and carrier, changing towers as it needs to. The actual handoff and background routing change is possible on the basis that both signals are run by the same carrier, are trusted, are using the same network and all use the same gateways to route traffic, all of which are not too far from the handset in terms of speed of light and the handoff process can be allowed to take a few seconds.
This works because the infrastructure is owned by one company. Roaming works with a bunch of companies because they are highly motivated to work closely together because of the money they make by handling your calls, and are trusted to share data because of this relationship.
To make this work the way many people seem to interpret the matrix as working requires that you trust every node to update how to reach you and to do it on a really rapid basis. Which means, among other issues, that it's trivially easy to listen to every piece off data that goes to your comlink or to shut it down completely.
In the BBB, it is stated that public routers have a 10km range so that should be enough for roaming, shouldn't it ?
Sure, it's not as secure as a runner may like it to be but the data is encrypted (yeah I know encryption rules are kinda broken (even if there are some ways to work around that). But it's hard to allow PC hackers to listen to other's communication while still allowing secure communications for others), lost in the whole traffic, and routed through some anonymizer service (so you can follow the packets until some node but no further. No way to tell if your "I'm gonna kill the senator tonight" is aimed at some MMORPG or is a real criminal message (but if you aren't stupid, you don't put it that way)), with a clever use of the spoof program, you may even be able to hide your packets as other traffic (control traffic with hidden data for example).
But for sure, as in a lot of situations, being unconspicuous (no obviously criminal communication, no strange data coming out from your commlinks) and blending in the crowd is the best way to go anonymously.
Sure, it's not as secure as a runner may like it to be but the data is encrypted (yeah I know encryption rules are kinda broken (even if there are some ways to work around that). But it's hard to allow PC hackers to listen to other's communication while still allowing secure communications for others), lost in the whole traffic, and routed through some anonymizer service (so you can follow the packets until some node but no further. No way to tell if your "I'm gonna kill the senator tonight" is aimed at some MMORPG or is a real criminal message (but if you aren't stupid, you don't put it that way)), with a clever use of the spoof program, you may even be able to hide your packets as other traffic (control traffic with hidden data for example).
But for sure, as in a lot of situations, being unconspicuous (no obviously criminal communication, no strange data coming out from your commlinks) and blending in the crowd is the best way to go anonymously.
| QUOTE (kzt) |
| This works because the infrastructure is owned by one company. Roaming works with a bunch of companies because they are highly motivated to work closely together because of the money they make by handling your calls, and are trusted to share data because of this relationship. To make this work the way many people seem to interpret the matrix as working requires that you trust every node to update how to reach you and to do it on a really rapid basis. Which means, among other issues, that it's trivially easy to listen to every piece off data that goes to your comlink or to shut it down completely. |
This is what has me scratching my head about SR4. You'd need a solid infrastructure to make something with the magnitude of the Matrix work.
I don't buy into a very open, very public Telecom Grid.
| QUOTE (Blade) |
| In the BBB, it is stated that public routers have a 10km range so that should be enough for roaming, shouldn't it ? |
They can say whatever they like. Very low power, very high speed, small profile communications devices (like the comlinks are described) are not compatible with 10 km ranges. The mesh network as described is more of a 10 meter range, not a 10km range.
Cell phone signals are much lower bandwidth and your tower density is higher than that. And you need to charge you battery after a few hours of use.
Let's put aside any "realistic" considerations (it's a future where loading a program in your brain allows you to get a full knowledge of something dammit !)
Anyway, it wouldn't work this way, I forgot that the router has to be in the range of the commlink's signal. (This means that the Meta Link commlink with rating 2 signal (100m) can't work well as a mobile communication device)
Back to the signal table, we have rating 3 signal for "average commlinks" (average meaning here "your everyday commlink" not mathematical average) and for "residential/small business routers".
So here is how I see it now (all considerations of the realism of microwave transmissions set aside) :
Your commlink is connected to, at least, the nearest residential router (or directly to a public router). The only way to get a connection is to have a valid commcode (which means that you pay a provider that takes care (or pays someone to take care) of the infrastructure (functionnal routers every 300 meters for example)). The residential routers form a network (an "island") linked to the nearest public router.
The public routers are "archipelagoes" uniting those small islands. These biggers islands are then linked together to create the full telecommunication grid. This indeed need to use huge registers able to switch quickly. Some kind of dynamic telephone switches. But we're in the future, so we don't have any trouble with that...
Anyway, it wouldn't work this way, I forgot that the router has to be in the range of the commlink's signal. (This means that the Meta Link commlink with rating 2 signal (100m) can't work well as a mobile communication device)
Back to the signal table, we have rating 3 signal for "average commlinks" (average meaning here "your everyday commlink" not mathematical average) and for "residential/small business routers".
So here is how I see it now (all considerations of the realism of microwave transmissions set aside) :
Your commlink is connected to, at least, the nearest residential router (or directly to a public router). The only way to get a connection is to have a valid commcode (which means that you pay a provider that takes care (or pays someone to take care) of the infrastructure (functionnal routers every 300 meters for example)). The residential routers form a network (an "island") linked to the nearest public router.
The public routers are "archipelagoes" uniting those small islands. These biggers islands are then linked together to create the full telecommunication grid. This indeed need to use huge registers able to switch quickly. Some kind of dynamic telephone switches. But we're in the future, so we don't have any trouble with that...
As far as range is concerned, I always pictured it as needing to be within range of a device which is in range of a device which is in range of a .... within range of a router.
So that Metalink would be cool as long as it stays within 100m of anything else (like another Commlink) that is within its effective range from another connected device.
Otherwise, 100m is fucked!
So that Metalink would be cool as long as it stays within 100m of anything else (like another Commlink) that is within its effective range from another connected device.
Otherwise, 100m is fucked!
| QUOTE (Fortune) |
| Otherwise, 100m is fucked! |
The typical way that I've seen UWB mesh networks described you are dealing with ranges in meters and power levels of (IIRC) nanowatts. So 100 meters should be fine for the environment it is designed for.
But it would still not work when you're in the middle of a park ... or on a boat 100m offshore ... or in a private plane ... or ...
| QUOTE (Fortune) |
| But it would still not work when you're in the middle of a park ... or on a boat 100m offshore ... or in a private plane ... or ... |
In the park it bounces out using the other people in the park. Or the installed infrastructure (solar powered, etc). In the boat or plane you should be using the router installed in the vehicle.
| QUOTE (kzt) |
| In the park it bounces out using the other people in the park. Or the installed infrastructure (solar powered, etc). |
But that is exactly what I was saying in my earlier post. I thought you were arguing with me.
While I can easily grasp pretty much everything else, I really suck at all this Matrix/Wireless stuff ... and always have since way back in '89. I understand the basics ... but only ever barely, and have been able to gloss over specifics without impact in my World. Now, with the newly-increased AR presence, a deeper understanding has become more of a requirement.
| QUOTE (Fortune) | ||
But that is exactly what I was saying in my earlier post. I thought you were arguing with me. |
Um, maybe I was. If I was I was wrong.
Sounds like Joe vs the Volcanoe "I'm not arguing that with you!"
It's cool. I'm old, and sometimes I need things explained to me in less-technical terms. 
Here's how I've played it, and it seems to work.
The wireless grid is still there. Imagine each cell tower as it's own node (it's not, rules wise, hence imagine.) Your commlink automattically susses out all signals in the area. When you want to connect to another node, your call is routed through the cellular grib and back to the node you want, no matter where in the world it is, so long as the grid can get to it. This is the old school, wired matrix infrastructure, you simply access it through a wireless point at beginning and end.
This assumes you are in active or passive mode. This is why those modes are so damn easy to detect you in, you are truely "on the grid"
When in hidden mode, you can only communicate with nodes in your signal range, if you are also in theirs. This is the mesh network. Now, in the other modes, you do this as well, its just the only option in hidden mode. If you want, you can tell those nodes to rebroadcast your signal to create a relay, allowing you to access the nodes it can access even if you can't reach them yourself. The only problem with this is that this relaying takes up processor time on the host node (counts as a program running), and you use the lowest response time of your "chain of nodes".
Incidentally, the external Iconography of a node doesn't appear in the node, it appears in the LINK to the node. What I mean is, when you go from one node to the next, you see the link to the next node from the first node. This link is sculpted to look like the nifty whatever they want. When you walk around in AR viewing downtown seattle, all those emerald city icons you see are links to those buildings nodes.
In short, the infrastructure does still exist, and you see the outsides of a node from inside the nodes that link to it.
The wireless grid is still there. Imagine each cell tower as it's own node (it's not, rules wise, hence imagine.) Your commlink automattically susses out all signals in the area. When you want to connect to another node, your call is routed through the cellular grib and back to the node you want, no matter where in the world it is, so long as the grid can get to it. This is the old school, wired matrix infrastructure, you simply access it through a wireless point at beginning and end.
This assumes you are in active or passive mode. This is why those modes are so damn easy to detect you in, you are truely "on the grid"
When in hidden mode, you can only communicate with nodes in your signal range, if you are also in theirs. This is the mesh network. Now, in the other modes, you do this as well, its just the only option in hidden mode. If you want, you can tell those nodes to rebroadcast your signal to create a relay, allowing you to access the nodes it can access even if you can't reach them yourself. The only problem with this is that this relaying takes up processor time on the host node (counts as a program running), and you use the lowest response time of your "chain of nodes".
Incidentally, the external Iconography of a node doesn't appear in the node, it appears in the LINK to the node. What I mean is, when you go from one node to the next, you see the link to the next node from the first node. This link is sculpted to look like the nifty whatever they want. When you walk around in AR viewing downtown seattle, all those emerald city icons you see are links to those buildings nodes.
In short, the infrastructure does still exist, and you see the outsides of a node from inside the nodes that link to it.
| QUOTE (PlatonicPimp @ Nov 7 2006, 09:18 PM) |
| In short, the infrastructure does still exist, and you see the outsides of a node from inside the nodes that link to it. |
I can accept a public node system managed by the city/county/state, kind of like highways and roads. This also helps makes a prevasive sculptured VR theme for areas/geography definitely more possible.
Ah ha! From a the thread on TM a few topics over:
| QUOTE |
| Exhibit B (BBB4 page 214) Commcodes Everyone using the Matrix has a personal commcode, or matrix address -- the equivilant of a cell phone number or email address -- to which their calls and messages are directed. Your commcode is usually registered with a paid Matrix service provider, though numerous free (if unreliable) and annonymous shadow-sites offer the same service. |
So there are Matrix providers, its just not widely talked about in SR4.
Cool.
Remember, the Crash 2.0 may have wiped out all the DATA on the matrix, but the physical infrastructure was mostly still there. EMP doesn't kill Fibre optics. And letting all that infrastructure go to waste, especially when getting everything back online is high priority, isn't something cut corner corps are going to do. The old, wired matrix is still there under the skin of the new, wireless one.
| QUOTE (PlatonicPimp @ Nov 7 2006, 11:34 PM) |
| Remember, the Crash 2.0 may have wiped out all the DATA on the matrix, but the physical infrastructure was mostly still there. EMP doesn't kill Fibre optics. And letting all that infrastructure go to waste, especially when getting everything back online is high priority, isn't something cut corner corps are going to do. The old, wired matrix is still there under the skin of the new, wireless one. |
PlatonicPimp you have done it again!
One thing I can think of to contribute is that the matrix has been something that people have relied on so much that it might be possible for them not to pay for a matrix provider.
If you do pay for a provider it probably comes included in the comlinks pay. if comlinks are supposed to be like Cell/PDA/Camera ect. Why wouldnt it be already provided? Odds are the comlink you buy represents the corporation you come from so it feeds the economy of the bussiness if it's AAA or subsidiary that money gets recycled to pay for the cost of using and maintiaing the matrix along with all the other things you can do with the system to make a profit.
For example Mitsuhama might produce a comlink all of its employees buy. Not only do they have the comlink but preloaded sights were these employees can use there comlink to get perks... restuaunts, bars, clubs, matrix/magical or otherwise but all owned by the same company (like Jewish koster economics, or if your evil rega/bushanomics).
other speculation?
[edit]: BTW do you think the wireless matrix is active in the chicago CZ? I'm imagineing so.
| QUOTE (ChicagosFinest) |
| BTW do you think the wireless matrix is active in the chicago CZ? I'm imagineing so. |
The walls of the Containment Zone came down years ago.
I know.... I'm not talking about the walls Im talking of the CZ itself. Remember the walls went down people left but I dont think people came back in. Only the "strong", sinless, crazy or evil stayed in the CZ. So the question remains would there be wireless matrix in the lawless part of the CZ?
I'm thinking yeah to be safe. But what would the AR look like and all those other questions is something I'm working on.
I'm thinking yeah to be safe. But what would the AR look like and all those other questions is something I'm working on.
We just assumed the mob moved in quick, bought up what land they could, and started rebuilding. Only thing better than construciton contracts is actually owning everything there ya' know?So yeah, in our game at least, there would be. Some things you really just have to brew your self. 
LOL, way to get my creative juices flowing
The Mob eh? The mob in Italy is/was all bug spirits. I think you have sowed the seads for a few adventure ideas.
I need to get with some people who are as enthusiastic as me and write a proposal. Where's Frank Trollman when you need him? I need to ask some magic related questions!
The Mob eh? The mob in Italy is/was all bug spirits. I think you have sowed the seads for a few adventure ideas.
I need to get with some people who are as enthusiastic as me and write a proposal. Where's Frank Trollman when you need him? I need to ask some magic related questions!
No, just the northen N'Dragenta. never spell that right.. errgh
The Chicago mob has always been a big deal. I can't see them leaving it laying there. Tradition ya' know.
The Chicago mob has always been a big deal. I can't see them leaving it laying there. Tradition ya' know.
I don't think it would take too long for the city to be reclaimed, minus the area directly around the Cermak Blast. The rest would be cleaned out in next to no time, and it would be back to business as usual.
Maybe its me but I dont think the CZ should have a very Vanilla ending. If anything the residents of the CZ have a hatred for Ares and KE and chicago as a city itself might be out for blood.
Detroit and Ares is like Darth Vader in Empire strikes back to Chicago. Darth kicks you out of your home. Kidnapps your best friend, and kicks your best friends dog to boot while doing the kidnapping. Then he makes it a point to stomp on your cell phone and laptop so you have to fix it on your own time! Finally before he goes he casually tells you the girl you love is really your sister. Thats a piss poor day and a great reason to kill him the moment you get a chance.
Detroit and Ares is like Darth Vader in Empire strikes back to Chicago. Darth kicks you out of your home. Kidnapps your best friend, and kicks your best friends dog to boot while doing the kidnapping. Then he makes it a point to stomp on your cell phone and laptop so you have to fix it on your own time! Finally before he goes he casually tells you the girl you love is really your sister. Thats a piss poor day and a great reason to kill him the moment you get a chance.
I'm not quite sure why you would think that the residents (or ex-residents, as many would have fled the area the first chance they got) would hate their saviors. From what they know, Ares came in to save the day, after their own UCAS government just walled them in and left them to be bug munchies.
Target: UCAS - Oblivions end plot line, "Children of Oblivion" synopsis pg. 100. (I just cited a SR source how big of a geek am I?!). That kicked off in 59' its only been 10 years and in those 10 years the Threats 2 post about ares and bugs went out.
Thinking the CZ has anarchits and every other type of weird info broker the goods were bound to get out to CZ conspiracy nuts. Astrally chicago is down the shitter, and a lot of people feel like the government abandoned them in the first place by putting up the wall.
I gotta get to work on a chicago proposal now that you got me cooking.
Thinking the CZ has anarchits and every other type of weird info broker the goods were bound to get out to CZ conspiracy nuts. Astrally chicago is down the shitter, and a lot of people feel like the government abandoned them in the first place by putting up the wall.
I gotta get to work on a chicago proposal now that you got me cooking.
Shadowland posts is not necessarily public knowledge to every single Joe Citizen. And even if it were, we're talking about a criminal bulletin board. Most people won't belive even half the crap on there. I mean look at Aztechnology ... they're the darlings of the public, dealing their consumer goods to all and sundry, with great PR. That wouldn't be the case if Joe Citizen heeded the info scattered all through Shadowland.
Ares is one of the only UCAS Megas, and as far as the people living in the containment zone are concerned, went out of their way to come and help them out with the little roach problem. I think the CZ inhabitants would see Ares in a much better light than you portray.
Ares is one of the only UCAS Megas, and as far as the people living in the containment zone are concerned, went out of their way to come and help them out with the little roach problem. I think the CZ inhabitants would see Ares in a much better light than you portray.
Arguement noted, but reading the material puts it in such a way. Of course everyone reads things differant thats why I put the question out there to see what people thought
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