Maybe I'm missing a few things....

a lot of things.

Let takes a hypothetical, really good hermetic mage, in violent situation.

(The numbers below denote dice)

Hermetic A

Magic 6.
Spellcasting 5.
Spellcasting Focus (combat) 3.
Spellcasting Speciality (combat) 2.
Combat enhancing totem spirit 2.

18 Dice.

Vs.. the exact counter to that - basically, same dice but the specialties/focii are in Counterspelling (combat). So Hermetic A vs Hermetic B. Where Hermetic B is the really good "combat counterspeller".

Now Hermetic A decides to over-cast manaball... (12 Physical + Successes)

Is the best defence Hermetic B can offer 18 dice? Is there some personal/shadowrunning group pre-cast magic shielding/warding that can be used?

Because based on straight counterspelling - assuming equal skill - you're looking at a 50-50 roll that decides life or death for any character...

Sam W.
All this in comparisson to a troll who is sporting something like 29 dice of combined Body + Armor to resist damage...

well, first off, I believe cover still applies for spell casting, as well as other modifiers. Also, shielding. learn it, live it , love it. Third, Abosrtion. Take it, live it, throw it back at the guy that cast it. Just a couple quick thoughts. But yeah, ti is really lethal. That's why you get wired and geek the mage first.

Doesn't Mountain add +2 counterspelling?

Surprise is your friend.

It's similar with guns, when two really good shooters engage in a one-on-one on a parking lot at noon, the one that goes first will most likely win.

Extreme examples get extreme results.

the spell mana barrier is your best freind.

works differently than before. It used to be, if you had to many foci, they'd become a crutch, until you'd eventaully become dependant on them. Now, it's a choice to be addicted ,like cigarettes. Personally, I like the old version. But I still use grounding.

Don't have my SR3 PDFs with me.

But didnt SR3 have a 'spell reistance' spell (like armor but protects against spells).

Spell Mana Barrier: You have to cast and hope it is between you and the other caster.

Any reason not to bring back a 'spell armor' spell to help out.


As to the Counterspelling (combat)- 100 foci.

Better hope you are tasty with ketchup... since you are going to be Dragon-chow (or IE plaything).

If somebody made anything on that scale, the powers that be would be racing for it like the holy grail.

It should be noted there are various effects to temporary delay the effects of stun damage. So if that Troll just took 12 boxs of stun damage his his adrenaline pump is going he'll havea few combat rounds to pound into before failing unconcious. A stim patch can have a similar effect.

Also with manaball you only need negate the number of hits to negate the entire spell. But still its a problem.


I think the real problem in magic is the benfit to overcasting is good but the draw back isn't so bad.
*Assume mage has magic 6
Manaballs drain value is (Force divided by 2)+2
A standard manaball cast at force 6 would have a drain value of 5.
A manaball overcast to force 12 would have a drain of 8.

The second problem is that while the book states stun drain can't be cured with magic it says nothing about physical, but lets not open that can of worms here please.

To me that difference isn't enougth.
My own little house rule I'd use If i GMed shadowrun.
For every point of overcasting you added it twice when caculating drain. So if one has a magic of six and casts a manaball at force 12. They face 11 drain to resist instead of 8 under raw.
In this way overcasting becomes dangerious as it will likly leave the mage in a vulnerable postion.

RunerPaul:

Glad you like it.
To me it tones down the high-end of overcasting nicely. Giving it the potential to be better, but not automatically better.

Mana-barrier is a static, unmoving "wall" correct? Not some ongoing spell that travels with you/group and affects you wherever you go?

Sam W.

Nerhesi, All the area effect spells can be moved with a complex action. So you can move Mana Barrier but it is not automatic.

Also, a Mana Armor spell would be very useful. That would automaticaly travel with you, though it wouldn't cover your team.

My group has 3 mages in it and they have never once over casted a spell. They all roleplay well enough to know that their characters would not take the risk of doing that much bodily harm to themselves unless it was a life or death choice.

Oh, and you are limited to 5 times your magic rating for total focus rating...

FYI, Synner addressed the overcast healing of Physical damage in a post a little while ago. I'm sure it can still be found if people look for it. Essentially, the Street Magic book implies that Physical damage caused by drain cannot be healed by magic (just like stun damage cannot be healed by magic).

Eitherway, it seems apparent that Shadowrun's combat system is meant to be quick and dangerous, moving away from the protracted, hour(s) long fights that often chew up play time in other games like D&D. I find that to be a nice change of pace