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Storn
Its funny. I've been doing private commissions for gamers for years. But this week, got my very first Shadowrun character to do.

So. Here it is.

Thought I would share.

And here is KM's Shadowrun troll PC.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/Storn...iPetitloRes.jpg
Moon-Hawk
Wow, that's really good, I like that. It's a realistic, metahuman-looking Troll, rather than a twisted, misshapen lump of a tolkeinesque monstrosity with an anti-aircraft turret in it's arms.
Very well done.
Fortune
Damn, that's impressive.

And welcome to Dumpshock. smile.gif
eidolon
I like. Thanks for posting it.
knasser

Woah. Fuck. That's good. That's more or less how I picture trolls. Far better than the usual pumped up neanderthal with the "Me Stoopid" expressions that we usually get. I really like.

The only criticism that could be levelled at it is that without another figure in the picture, we don't get a reference for the troll's size, but then you couldn't do that in a commision and you do a really good job of making him look beefy anyway.

I like it a lot. Thanks for posting it. It's always good to have more artwork that can actually be used as a reference to players.

-K.
Moon-Hawk
QUOTE (knasser)
The only criticism that could be levelled at it is that without another figure in the picture, we don't get a reference for the troll's size, but then you couldn't do that in a commision and you do a really good job of making him look beefy anyway.

I agree. Without perspective the horns are the only thing making it no-an-ork. Maybe you can't put another character in the picture, but just a standard sized anything could go a long way. Like a trash can or car in the background.
Then again, in a context like this, we all know it's a troll, we all know he's tall, so it's okay.
Once again, great work. I really like it. I'd like to see more orks and trolls, both male and female, done in this style.
Kagetenshi
Not bad. IMO his expression could stand to be flatter and there could stand to be a good deal more dermal deposits, and the guns should probably look pretty small in comparison, but it's a pretty good piece no matter how you slice it.

~J
2bit
coo.
Butterblume
Two pictures I like:

http://www.fanpro.com/forum.001/viewtopic....22723&start=101
http://www.fanpro.com/forum.001/viewtopic....22723&start=182

Storn's troll is also nice.
Fortune
Everybody does Trolls! We need more Elves!
Butterblume
Nah, we need more dwarfs. Really.
Kagetenshi
We need more Wakyambi.

~J
Fortune
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
We need more Wakyambi.

Nobody needs more Wakyambi! nyahnyah.gif
eidolon
Or any other metavariant for that matter. wink.gif
Kyoto Kid
QUOTE (Butterblume)
Two pictures I like: 
 
http://www.fanpro.com/forum.001/viewtopic....22723&start=101 
http://www.fanpro.com/forum.001/viewtopic....22723&start=182 
 
Storn's troll is also nice.

...yeah, the first one pretty much sums up the appearance of my Troll Face Adept, Babydoll.
Kyoto Kid
QUOTE (Butterblume)
Nah, we need more dwarfs. Really.

...I'm with you on that.
AJCarrington
Storn:

Nice to see your work gracing SR - excellent as always.

AJC
Ed Simons
Overall a very nice pic and a refreshing change from all those elves. I like the way the horns affect the hairline and how the obviously massive pistol looks a bit small in his hands. I do wonder why his skin is so gray and the weapon slung over his back appears to be bent.
Fortune
What elves?
Ed Simons
What elves?

Pick a book any book. Except for the Orkspliotation section, note what the most common metatype depicted is.

For bonus points try to find a female metatype that's not an elf.
Tanka
SR4, Gunslinger Adept, Female Ork.

Bada-bing, bada-boom.
Ed Simons
QUOTE (Tanka)
SR4, Gunslinger Adept, Female Ork.

Bada-bing, bada-boom.

Never said they weren't there, just they're rare. biggrin.gif

Since I don't have 4th, does she look like her face was set on fire and put out with a sledgehammer, like 3rd's Street Shaman.
knasser
QUOTE (Ed Simons)
QUOTE (Tanka)
SR4, Gunslinger Adept, Female Ork.

Bada-bing, bada-boom.

Never said they weren't there, just they're rare. biggrin.gif

Since I don't have 4th, does she look like her face was set on fire and put out with a sledgehammer, like 3rd's Street Shaman.


Oh yes. One of the best pieces of Shadowrun art yet produced. Not because of the detail and the pose, both of which are executed beautifully, but because it shows an Orc that actually looks like something other than a human with bad posture and glue-on warts. She's a quite muscular but still attractive woman, basically, with the cannon orc traits (small tusks) but not hold-over preconceptions from Certain Other Games. And she's Chinese which is a double plus, as SR has needed more ethnic variety in it for a while. There's been a underlying assumption I've come across too often that orc is equivalent to black and that elves are always white. Other groups seem to be left out entirely.

-K.
Mal-2
QUOTE (Storn)
Thought I would share.

Gorgeous. Thanks for sharing.
lorechaser
I have to ask:

The Harping Monkey?
eidolon
The House of the Harping Monkey

(I think I'm missing something though, where did you see it?)
Sir_Psycho
Female Dwarves and female trolls... they just don't seem to exist!
Trigger
QUOTE (Sir_Psycho)
Female Dwarves and female trolls... they just don't seem to exist!

The Sample Eco Radical Shaman in the core SR4 book is a female dwarf, and a well drawn one at that. She doesn't even have a beard or anything and looks very feminine, though still somehow portrays the spirit of dwarf-ness.
SL James
There are two cool pictures of a dwarf woman in Cybertechnology. The first is her walking down a hallway with a rifle over her shoulder.

The second is her walking away after having beaten the shit out of a troll with a baseball bat.

Oh, and Trigger... Are you trying to burn out peoples' retinas with your sig, or is it just a happy accident?
Sir_Psycho
QUOTE
She doesn't even have a beard or anything and looks very feminine, though still somehow portrays the spirit of dwarf-ness.

That reminds me. Non-bearded dwarves are also very rare in illustrations.
Butterblume
QUOTE (Trigger)
The Sample Eco Radical Shaman in the core SR4 book is a female dwarf, and a well drawn one at that.  She doesn't even have a beard or anything and looks very feminine, though still somehow portrays the spirit of dwarf-ness.

I don't see the spirit of dwarf-ness. Neither with the eco-shaman, nor the face character.
Konsaki
Dwarves are just smaller humans, like how orks are just bigger but have tusks. Remember that these races are just mutations of the base human and have nothing to do with Tolken or D&D.
MYST1C
QUOTE (Butterblume)
I don't see the spirit of dwarf-ness. Neither with the eco-shaman, nor the face character.

I second that, especially for the Face.
While the text states she's a dwarf the picture IMHO clearly shows a human with pointy ears or alternatively a rather round-faced elf.
The body proportions are completely wrong - torso not massive enough and way too long legs.

I could accept her as a Gnome but that metavariant doesn't exist in SR4 (yet) and in that case her head would be too small.
Konsaki
What artist are you basing your view off of?
MYST1C
QUOTE (Konsaki)
What artist are you basing your view off of?

The majority.

The picture of SR4's Face archetype simply doesn't fit the way male dwarfs have been drawn throughout all editions.
Dwarfs are short, with rather massive torsos, short arms and even shorter legs.
As the SR3 dwarf race desriptions puts it, humans and dwarfs could wear the same t-shirts, but that's it.
The Face on the other hand is proportioned just like a human - which would be okay for orks and elves but not for dwarfs (and trolls)!
If I were shown the Face picture without comment I'd guess it depicts an elf standing above a (rather slim) troll.

SR2's Dwarf Mercenary archetype picture is an IMHO good depiction of a male dwarf (maybe a bit overweight, though).
The picture on p.5 of Cybertechnology is an IMHO good depiction of a female dwarf - short, massive, muscular.

IMHO Jim Nelson is one of the few SR artists who got metahumans right. His group picture at the end of SR2's races chapter is to me the best metahumanity comparison picture ever drawn and every SR artist should have it above his desk for reference.




lorechaser
QUOTE (eidolon)
The House of the Harping Monkey

(I think I'm missing something though, where did you see it?)

I get nosy, and start pawing about in people's photobuckets.

http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/Storn...pMonkTloRes.jpg

Trigger
QUOTE (SL James)
Oh, and Trigger... Are you trying to burn out peoples' retinas with your sig, or is it just a happy accident?

A little of both I think. Burning is fun biggrin.gif
BookWyrm
If I remember my fantasy lore correctly, beards on both male & female dwarves are the norm, even considered a sign of social & virility status. Few or either sex actually braid their beards, but those who do are either in search of a mate or showing off their prowess/experiences (some even ornate their braids with gems).

The only times they do shave or remove their beards is whrn they have either dishonored themselves & must make amends/regained their honor, are in mourning of a beloved, cursed (it's a sick & twisted wizard that causes a dwarf's beard to fall out, which can lead to severe reprisals) or they lost all their facial hair in some grand deed/adventure. I got rid of all my old AD$D stuff years ago, sorry.

I don't know how it is with SR dwarves. I seem to remember quite a few illos of female dwarves without facial hair.
Kesslan
EDIT: BTW to the OP. Very nicely done picture. Forgot to put that in. Shame on me alas. Please, do not send ninjas to kill me.

SR Dwarves dont follow the norms of the typical fantasy setting dwarf. Also the 'typical fantasy' dwarf immage as far as I can tell actually stems from the influence of D&D. While there are no doub tother soruces that predate D&D (there might be, there might not be, I dont know) I do know that the whole thing with both male and female dwarves having bears and braiding etc is straight out of the D&D descriptions of dwarves.

Shadowrun on the other hand has allways been on it's own in a way. While alot of artists have drawn alot of Trolls and Dwarves to look more like the classical idea of such creatures, the actual fluff text that covers them didnt really mesh with it.

I think though that part of the reason Trolls epecially were given these gnarled warty apperances, was largely due to their low charismas etc. Under SR4 while their -maxiums- are lowered, it still seems to me the average turns out 3, which is more inline with the shadowrun ideal.

Meaning that their not necessarily ugly or anything. (Just look at the cover of loose aliances for example, there's some decent looking trolls there). I mean another sort of misconception is the appearance of ghouls. Their often portrayed as these apparently or obviosuly undead creatures, when they arnt at all. While they are afflicted they are still quite alive and mortal.

But then also classic fantasy dictates that ghouls are infact a form of reanimated corpses. (Or at least thats allways been my understanding of it).

Infact the only creature that seems to fit the 'standard' fantasy mould in Shadowrun is infact Dragons. Though their less prone to going on complete rampages, and their degree of scheming is greatly enhanced (Especially in the case of dragons such as Lofwyr and the big D)
Konsaki
Tolken predates D&D
Kesslan
Yeah but does Tolken have female dwarves with beards too and the whole honour thing attached to said beards? (I dont actually know, I've never read the books)
Butterblume
I don't think Tolkien mentiones female dwarves, at least not in The Hobbit or The Lord of the Rings.

I always thought the idea of bearded female dwarfs came fram Pratchetts Discworld novels.
MYST1C
QUOTE (Butterblume)
I don't think Tolkien mentiones female dwarves, at least not in The Hobbit or The Lord of the Rings.

I didn't check the book but the movie version of "The Two Towers" contains a reference to bearded dwarf women in an Aragon/Eowyn/Gimli dialoge en route to Helm's Deep.
Gimli explains to Eowyn that many people wrongly think that there are no dwarf women because male and female dwarfs look so alike.
Seeing Eowyn's wondering look Aragorn remarks in very low voice: "It's the beards."
Hell Hound
QUOTE (M¥$T1C)
I didn't check the book but the movie version of "The Two Towers" contains a reference to bearded dwarf women...

Anyone that looks to Peter Jackson's movies for correct information on Tolkien's world is bound to be misled.

I've never come across any reference in SR that says female dwarves have beards. The obvious physical characteristics I am aware of are short legs, barrel chests and a compact musculature. Thats it.

As for the warty appearance of trolls the info on them lists them as having dermal bone deposits in random locations, the most common being one or two horns that do not have to be symmetrical. The Troll ganger archetype in the SR3 BBB has them on his knees, knuckles and the visible elbow. However the overall image probably falls into the "too much fantasy, not enough humanity" category.
mfb
best dwarf i've seen is the raven shaman sample character from SR3. she looks like a person who is a dwarf, rather than an attempt to portray a 'typical' dwarf.
will_rj
straight from the book...

"Dís was the daughter of Thráin II. She is the only dwarf-woman named in these histories. It was said by Gimli that there are few dwarf-women, probably no more than a third of the whole people. They seldom walk abroad except at great need, They are in voice and appearance, and in garb if they must go on a journey, so like to the dwarf-men that the eyes and ears of other peoples cannot tell them apart. This has given rise to the foolish opinion among Men that there are no dwarf-women, and that the Dwarves 'grow out of stone'.
It is because of the fewness of women among them that the kind of the Dwarves increases slowly, and is in peril when they have no secure dwellings. For Dwarves take only one wife or husband each in their lives, and are jealous, as in all matters of their rights. The number of dwarf-men that marry is actually less than one-third. For not all the women take husbands: some desire none; some desire one that they cannot get, and so will have no other. As for the men, very many also do not desire marriage, being engrossed in their crafts. "
SL James
QUOTE (Hell Hound)
I've never come across any reference in SR that says female dwarves have beards.

That's because there's never been one. Anywhere. Ever.
fistandantilus4.0
There are some great pics of dwarf women though, like the one in Cybertechnology. One of my favorites, the one with the dwarf chica wit hteh massive cyberm and a big ol' bat, walking away from the troll she just laid out.
Kesslan
QUOTE (will_rj)
straight from the book...

They seldom walk abroad except at great need, They are in voice and appearance, and in garb if they must go on a journey, so like to the dwarf-men that the eyes and ears of other peoples cannot tell them apart.

That part right there specifically I guess is pretty much saying (without really saying it) that the dwarven women have beards. Well, interesting to note at least. Though I dont know about the rest of you but I certainly knew of D&D dwarves a long time before I ever heard of Tolkien.

So I'd still count it at least, as a major factor in spreading that line of thought around a good deal at least.

I mean really, the only similarities as far as I know between typical fantasy dwarves vs SR dwarves is that their short, stocky, tough of body and spirit (willpower), and are generally pretty strong too.

The only real differences I suppose, stems from the rest. The bears, the clans etc. None of which exist for the most part as 'dwarven culture' in shadowrun.

As to Trolls... Well, I'm not quite sure where folk got warts as a represnetation of dermal deposits. To me at least, thats more along the lines of the more bone like apperance than warts.

Which also brings me to question, why is it only humans can take the elf poser trait? What if I want to have an elf poser Troll? Granted he'd fail at it miserably but what if he desperately wants to, or through some horribly skewed delusion (Maybe brought on by BLT abuse) that he really is an Elf? spin.gif
Chrome Shadow
Very good...
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