Full Version: Probing the Target Countermeasures?
Is there a way to actively scan for people probing your target?
Hey man, if you're not into that kind of thing don't hangout with those types of people. Alternately: some type of chastity belt might help. 
However if your talking about hacking and you want something more than the one shot Analyze + Firewall test upon intrusion (woa! and the entendres keep coming in pairs!) you could put the target node behind a "clean" node running an agent with an Analyze program.
However if your talking about hacking and you want something more than the one shot Analyze + Firewall test upon intrusion (woa! and the entendres keep coming in pairs!) you could put the target node behind a "clean" node running an agent with an Analyze program.
probing your target in what way? 
Could you be more specific
Could you be more specific
For the pervs out there I mean if they're doing the probing the target instead of hacking on the fly is there anyway to prevent them from simply racking up enough successes to have admin access.
Say I want to invest my hard earned street dollars into my own brothel in the barrens. I have my commlink on active mode so the girls know who I am and the johns know I'm not just some scummy Orc customer. I'm the scummy orc that owns the place...
And it's in active mode so that people can interact and pay.
I want to prevent some guy from just sitting in a room with a girl and hacking on the fly until he gets my business records. Is there a way to do this with book programs and book equipment while still maintaining the spirit of the game?
Say I want to invest my hard earned street dollars into my own brothel in the barrens. I have my commlink on active mode so the girls know who I am and the johns know I'm not just some scummy Orc customer. I'm the scummy orc that owns the place...
And it's in active mode so that people can interact and pay.I want to prevent some guy from just sitting in a room with a girl and hacking on the fly until he gets my business records. Is there a way to do this with book programs and book equipment while still maintaining the spirit of the game?
Multiple Agents running Analyze, Scan and Ice. Also databomb your business files with Tarbaby
would that we could have TARBABY databombs, looks like we'll wait for 2008 before the matrix rules are expanded.
note, that IC running on your comlink can't analyze an exterior node. Which is why this perv sugests a "tiered" approach. In your pimp example that would be hard to implement but databomb does work and you can still stoor the real important files on an other node then your comlink.
Mr. Pimp has an interesting problem but the realative ease of hacking in 2070 must indicate that architecure is as important as the strength of your programs.
note, that IC running on your comlink can't analyze an exterior node. Which is why this perv sugests a "tiered" approach. In your pimp example that would be hard to implement but databomb does work and you can still stoor the real important files on an other node then your comlink.
Mr. Pimp has an interesting problem but the realative ease of hacking in 2070 must indicate that architecure is as important as the strength of your programs.
That's one of the reasons I changed the hacking to a regular test - not extended with the Firewall one of the thresholds. That way even in a slow hack it is more then just a matter of time.
DMs should not forget the words in the BBB, pp. 58
| QUOTE |
| Though it may seem that characters are guaranteed of success in an Extended Test over time, that is not always the case...The game master can also limit the number of rolls...A good limit is to allow a maximum number of rolls equal to the character's dice pool...A character can also fail an extended test by glitching. |
I might limit the number of rolls to the relevent skill or attribute.
To break it down:
the hacker (level 5 system) rolls Hacking 5 + Exploit 5 + hot sim 2 = 12 dice
against a (level 5 system) threshold of System 5 + firewall 5 + admin access 6 = threshold 16
He should make it in 4 rolls so it will take him 4 hours.
There isn't a high chance that he'll glitch but it's there
The target has to stay in range with his comlink on for 4 hours.
After 4 hours the pimps comlink makes a one shot Analyze 5 + Firewall 5 = 10 die, the threshold is the hacker's Stealth 5 rating
What are the chances of five hits out of 10 die?
Could simply turning your comlink off every once in a while negate previous successes that the hacker has built up?
What happens if the Pimp gets in his lowrider and cruises to the stuffer shack a couple miles away?
| QUOTE (OneTrikPony) |
| What are the chances of five hits out of 10 die? |
About 21%. I think.
Could you just say that there are not any vulnerabilities to probe for? IE, design a system so simple that there aren't loopholes. Sure, the system could do barely more than open a door but if all it is is a trigger switch IE, if 1 then X if 0 then Y there isn't much of a way to hack it is there?
Can you hack into a drone? Of do you have to go through whatever it's subscribed to?
Can you hack into a drone? Of do you have to go through whatever it's subscribed to?
| QUOTE (Lord Ben) |
| I want to prevent some guy from just sitting in a room with a girl and hacking on the fly until he gets my business records. Is there a way to do this with book programs and book equipment while still maintaining the spirit of the game? |
In that exemple, don't keep your business record on your commlink. Store them off-line in a secured area (and perhaps simply a storage device you carry on your person) and update regularly.
There's little benefit and much risk to keeping your entire books on-line in this case.
But as to the main question... Beside having the best system and hoping that the best hackers aren't interested in you, there's not much to do but build a system that limits your vulnerability.
Protecting information goes far beyond protecting your comm-link ; and given how hard it is to prevent a hacker from breaking into any on-line device, you have to explore the other options.
Good to see OneTrick remembered things like security level access.
Of course should that 21% come up the hacker is likly dead. As it won't be hard to noticed the guy who's been in hot sim the last four ours. But wouldn't the scan by his come come every hour. Same as the hackers check
Of course should that 21% come up the hacker is likly dead. As it won't be hard to noticed the guy who's been in hot sim the last four ours. But wouldn't the scan by his come come every hour. Same as the hackers check
Don't forget to encrypt your commlink - every little bit helps.
| QUOTE (Jack Kain) |
| Good to see OneTrick remembered things like security level access. Of course should that 21% come up the hacker is likly dead. As it won't be hard to noticed the guy who's been in hot sim the last four ours. But wouldn't the scan by his come come every hour. Same as the hackers check |
No, that's the point of probing the target instead of brute force penetration (
RAPE! )If the target system got a check every time the hacker made one it would be exactly the same thing but would take hours instead of seconds.
I personally dont allow nor use the probing method, its a cheap tactic... besides, someone would notice you pinging their commlink if they had the right software. I prefer the hard and rough method of just shoving right in.
| QUOTE (Konsaki) |
| I personally dont allow nor use the probing method, its a cheap tactic... besides, someone would notice you pinging their commlink if they had the right software. I prefer the hard and rough method of just shoving right in. |
People noticing you pinging their commlink is what happens when you hack on the fly.
Probing the target would be much much easier to conceal, you would be attacking from various vantage points in the matrix, with multiple identities, hidden in the normal hubbub of traffic, hence why they only can detect you on the final attack run.
I still stand by my statement that it's a cheap tactic and shouldnt be used...
| QUOTE (Konsaki) |
| I still stand by my statement that it's a cheap tactic and shouldnt be used... |
it has it's drawback. you can't always afford to spend hours chipping away at a system's defense. in those situations, you have to hack on the fly.
this is nothing unusual. sure, there's no reason to hack on the fly if you are able to take your time, but hey, guess what? there's no reason to charge down a 500 foot long hallway screaming at the top of your lungs with a katana over your head when you could instead ambush the person who is walking down that hallway and get surprise on them. that's not a problem, and neither is probing the target. it's just a perfectly reasonable tactic which is useful when you can afford to use it, but which can't be used unless you have a lot of prep time.
yeah. plus, it allows you to hold your own against hosts that you otherwise wouldn't stand a snowball's chance in. if the GM doesn't want the decker to do probling, he can simply not give the team enough time. i don't see how it's any cheaper than digging up blueprints of the facility you've been hired to hit, in order to plan your infiltration.
| QUOTE (mfb) |
| yeah. plus, it allows you to hold your own against hosts that you otherwise wouldn't stand a snowball's chance in. if the GM doesn't want the decker to do probling, he can simply not give the team enough time. i don't see how it's any cheaper than digging up blueprints of the facility you've been hired to hit, in order to plan your infiltration. |
See you shouldnt do that either! You have to go in, clear a room then move to the next one and clear it, rinse and repeat!
Okay, next room is a 10 by 10 ... uh ... office room. And you see a ... roll, roll ... Ancient ... er ... I mean Great Dragon.
Um... My mage does have 'Magic Missile™' right?
No, it's trademarked! Can't you see that? You have "Mystic Projectile" at your disposal, though.
I 'Mystic Projectile' the darkness.
we call it "powerbolt".
| QUOTE (mfb) |
| we call it "powerbolt". |
actually, it would be mana bolt more likely.
considering <absolutely not just a clone of magic missile> can't damage objects.
and of course, as you get better you can split your dice pool, if you want to hit more targets, or just hit a single target for more. fits pretty good, doesn't it?
magic missile works against any target, doesn't it? living or not?
edit: nm, magic missile targets up to five creatures. so, it won't work against a chair... but it'll work against a chair that's the subject of an animate objects spell.
edit: nm, magic missile targets up to five creatures. so, it won't work against a chair... but it'll work against a chair that's the subject of an animate objects spell.
it also explicitly states that inanimate objects cannot be harmed by the spell.
i suppose, to fit that correctly, the animate objects spell would probably have to be defined as homunculus-possessed watchers and spirits, because mana bolt won't affect telekinetically manipulated chairs. of course, the comparison there to D&D would be telekinetically manipulated chairs, which magic missile won't work against either
yeesh, at this rate we're gonna have d20 converted to shadowrun in a while =P
i suppose, to fit that correctly, the animate objects spell would probably have to be defined as homunculus-possessed watchers and spirits, because mana bolt won't affect telekinetically manipulated chairs. of course, the comparison there to D&D would be telekinetically manipulated chairs, which magic missile won't work against either
yeesh, at this rate we're gonna have d20 converted to shadowrun in a while =P
| QUOTE (Lord Ben) |
| If they're doing the probing the target instead of hacking on the fly, is there anyway to prevent them from simply racking up enough successes to have admin access. |
According the the Big Black Book (p.58), you could limit his rolls to his skill level. I.e. five rolls for someone with a hacking skill of 5. This rule probably won't stop any really good hackers, and only occasionally stop the marginally good ones, but there you go. Unless you're having trouble with script kiddies - hackers with poor skill but good equipment.
| QUOTE (Lord Ben @ Nov 21 2006, 12:21 AM) |
| I want to prevent some guy from just sitting in a room with a girl and hacking on the fly until he gets my business records. Is there a way to do this with book programs and book equipment while still maintaining the spirit of the game? |
The best way is to keep your business records off the net. Do you need them ON the net for any particular reason?
EDIT: Like Charon said!
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