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emo samurai
Somebody told me that in SR, the bosses have wised up and realized that happy employees as productive employees. But the thing is, that's not dystopic enough, and doesn't come with enough caveats to make the setting interesting.

What is it like in your games? How much shit do people have to go through to get shit done? How much mundane office politicking happens in your games' cubicles? What problems arise when you work where you live and you live where you work?
Glyph
Wage slaves are supposed to be relatively well off, in that they have comparative job security, but the distopian part is that they are also cogs in an uncaring machine. There is also that sense of Big Brother always watching, relentless propoganda (sappy motivational posters, singing the company song before work, etc.), and, finally, the ever-present risk of being the pawn in one of the games that the corporate sharks are always playing.

They may not be roasing devil rat skewers over a trashcan fire in the Barrens, but there is still lots of distopian goodness to being a wage slave. smile.gif
Sahandrian
Personally, I just take "Office Space", and imagine that Peter never gets to go home. Okay, so I also leave out the entire plot. But the things he put up with when he did show up to work.

And every time Michael or Samir abused the copier, it would identify them and deduct maintenance cost from their paycheck. And Peter's eventual slacking would have got him brought in front of a major boss and threatened a bit. And Milton's pay "issue" would have probably been resolved much sooner.

Oh yeah. And as soon as they attempted to use the virus, it would have been detected by a security decker, user ID logged, and everyone who made contact with him that day interrogated. And then all involved would have been quietly "disappeared" and all mention of them removed from company records.
hyzmarca
QUOTE (emo samurai)
happy employees as productive employees.

That is a lie. A happy employee is not a productive employee. A watched employee is a productive employee. Studies show that you can pamper your employees or screw them up the ass every chance you get, and you'll still get similar levels of productivity if they know that they are being watched and evaluated.

Wageslavery, however, is rather cushy, I'd imagine. You get corporate health and dental, competitive pay, and you rarely have to worry about being kidnapped or killed. The advantages far outweigh the disadvantages.

Dystopian? constants monitoring, repetitive tasks, evil bosses, and occasionally the computer system that control your entires life gain sentience and decides to turn you into a science experiment.

Also remember that your corporation is a state unto itself. This produces problems of an unimaginable scale if you should ever decide to think outside the box and fail. Being a wageslave is sort of like being a soldier. It doesn't matter if you think it is morally right, if they tell you to kill somebody then you better do it or else. Whistle-blowers in real life get lose their jobs and are sometimes blacklisted. Whistle-blowers in SR are executed for treason.

And remember, when the Aztechnology legal department mentions the "death of a million paper-cuts" they're speaking literally. It ain't a pleasant way to go.
Ryu
Motivated employees are productive employees. Motivation can be non-monetary, but usually isn´t. Suggested reading: Lazear, personnel economics for managers.

The dystopian aspect is that you have no real choice but to become a wage slave, and it is only stiffling for those who want to be creative and unbound in their ways. Some, including me, like the gilded cage corporate employment offers. That still does not mean that I enjoy intradepartmental conflicts like the fight for promotions. The fact is that the things important to you as an employee hardly matter to even your co-workers, and no-one cares if you don´t impact the bottom line.
mfb
the dystopian part, to me, comes in the ubiquitous monitoring and the constant fear that you will somehow be labelled a traitor to the company. i think of it as a cross between 1984 and McCarthyism.
SL James
There are also the constant, yet subtle reminders (yay, psychotropic IC!) that you OWE the corp for your well-being and very existence. Without the corp, you would be one of those poor bastards living in the Barrens. Without the corp, you would be *gasp* inconvenienced by being around people who aren't in your corporate family, or choice (e.g., kids' schools, brand of car to drive when you do leave the compound, where to go on vacation...), or worry. And in return, you have enough debt and so much fixed consumption of corp goods and services that if you ever even think of quitting you will go to jail, or be repatriated back to the corp if you try and run (Thank you 13th Amendment to the UCAS Constitutiton! Which is just the greatest legal irony in the whole game) only to have you and your family lose all those luxuries while you serve in debtor's prison. After all, you didn't think that apartment or car or health insurance or your kid's tuition to Novatech University (formerly Fuchi University) was free now, did you?
Grinder
Most wage-slaves don't care about the constant monitoring, the (more or less subtle) propaganda and the fact that they get paid in con script that is only accepted in the shops or their corp. They live their small, unimportant life, fear the outside world and are happy with that.

But if one of them opens his eyes and realized how trapped he is, he is fucked.

To me, that's really dystopian.
Kagetenshi
IMO, the corp tries to make everyone happy, it just doesn't try very hard or personalize its efforts at all. If motivational posters, the occasional motivational speaker, and a requirement to sing the company song once a [month/day/week/hour] make you happy, you'll probably be pretty happy as a wageslave.

Think Friend Computer, but quieter.

~J
Snow_Fox
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
QUOTE (emo samurai @ Nov 24 2006, 02:57 AM)
happy employees as productive employees.

Wageslavery, however, is rather cushy, I'd imagine. You get corporate health and dental, competitive pay, and you rarely have to worry about being kidnapped or killed. The advantages far outweigh the disadvantages.

That's pretty much what I think. Most employees don't see the 'evil' of their corps. they do theiur jobs and get taken care of. if anything the better corps are the more protective ones. Until the Arcology went off the deep end it had everything employees could want. They never had to venture out into the dangerous world.

The corps provide food, shelter, protection etc. The idea of losing this, being fired or seeing your company go under is the worst thing that could happen to them. SO why bother about being a scary fragger to your employees? Keep them happy and they will work hard to keep within that situation. Be an ugly fragger of a boiss and they may wonder if another corp would want them.

This is for the average maybe 98% of the employees, even warehouse laborers have that view. It's only the higher levels and corp elite sec guys who would have and idea of what else might be gonig down. My favorite RL example of employees often not knowing what the corp is up to is in my own life. In the early 1990's Xerox, you know the copier people, was the major importer of Russian Vodka to the US. This isn't evil but I bet it would never even ocure to most employees that we were involved in that business. (Since the economy was not stable, futures of Vodka were sold to Xerox to pay for advanced office equipment.)
lorechaser
Grinder did it more justice than I could.

I don't think the wage-slaves see their life as a bad thing, unless they upset the corp. We are intended to see their life as bad, but they don't. However, as soon as they anger the corp, their entire existence falls apart. All their assets (they don't own anything - it's all corp provided) disappear. Their friends hate them. They basically go from being well taken care of to being less than a hobo in the course of a day.
Grinder
Thank you smile.gif

It's not only by angering their corp that a wage-slave can fall off grace. Publishing "radical" ideas in a blog, talk aboutt the wrong things with the wrong people, just think about the outside world - all that can get attention of corp internal security. Just like the situaton in today's china or iran, to some degree.
Penta
QUOTE (SL James)
(Thank you 13th Amendment to the UCAS Constitutiton! Which is just the greatest legal irony in the whole game)

SL: Where is this Amendment mentioned?
Fortune
I found reference to the 14th Amendment in the Timeline Explorer ...

QUOTE
2036 - In the UCAS, the 14th Amendment to the Constitution is ratified. This amendment establishes the System Identification Number (SIN), requiring the registration of every UCAS citizen. Individuals without SIN's are defined as "probationary citizens," and have sharply limited rights. Probationary citizens are not allowed to vote in federal elections. Species other than Homo Sapiens are eligible for probationary citizenship in the UCAS, but full citizenship to a non-human/metahuman may be granted only by act of Congress. (Neo-Anarchist's Guide to North America)


and...

QUOTE
2057 - In the UCAS, Vice President Daviar spearheads changes to the 14th Amendment of the UCAS Constitution allowing non-metahumans and other probationary citizens legal SINs when vouched for by a UCAS citizen in good standing. (Matrix)


I couldn't find anything on #13 though.
De Badd Ass
Just what is your definition of wage slavery?

I think wage slavery is when some one is so afraid of losing their job - because they are deep in depth, have no savings, no other income, too many financial obligations, can't get another job quickly, etc. - that they put up with all kinds of crap.

If you aren't afraid to say, "Take this job and shove it", then you aren't a wage slave. You can be putting up with the same crap as the wage slave - but as long as it's by choice, then you are still free.

The crap doesn't even have to be directed at you. And the crap doesn't have to come from your boss. The majority of wage slaves are shackled to their jobs by their spouses.

On the other hand, if there is no crap, then you can't feel the chains.
SL James
QUOTE (Penta @ Nov 24 2006, 02:27 PM)
QUOTE (SL James @ Nov 24 2006, 09:25 AM)
(Thank you 13th Amendment to the UCAS Constitutiton! Which is just the greatest legal irony in the whole game)

SL: Where is this Amendment mentioned?

It's described in NAGNA and mentioned in SoNA.

QUOTE (NAGNA)
13th Amendment—UCAS recognizes contracts between corporations and their employees as binding. Upon due process of law in a Contract Court, corporations may extradite persons found guilty of unlawfully breaking their employment contract.


And in case you don't know (for whatever reason), I call it the greatest legal irony in SR because the 13th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution officially abolished slavery in the United States. I cannot reasonably believe this is a coincidence on the part of the authors.

QUOTE (lorechaser)
I don't think the wage-slaves see their life as a bad thing, unless they upset the corp.  We are intended to see their life as bad, but they don't.

Well, most of the references have been that, no, they don't see it as bad. It's like saying your family or home country is evil. Sure, there are people who believe it, but they wouldn't be employed by the corps anyway. It's the shadows, the Barrens, the outside world that is evil and corrupt and wrong.
Snow_Fox
SL you beat me to it. yeah, real irony on the 13th ammendment, especially as the UCAS constitution is supposed to be a carry over of the US constitution.
SL James
Yes, that was implied. Otherwise it would be as ironic as, say, the song (i.e., not one goddamn bit).
krayola red
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
Studies show that you can pamper your employees or screw them up the ass every chance you get, and you'll still get similar levels of productivity if  they know that they are being watched and evaluated.

Source? I want to know more about these studies. smile.gif
PlatonicPimp
Given how distopian I find modern, real world wage slavery, SR's version strikes me as little more than an open, honest version of the same. You work for us. If you stop, you die. Termination in SR just cuts to the quick, it kills you outright instead of letting you slowly starve to death.

hyzmarca
QUOTE (krayola red)
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
Studies show that you can pamper your employees or screw them up the ass every chance you get, and you'll still get similar levels of productivity if  they know that they are being watched and evaluated.

Source? I want to know more about these studies. smile.gif

Those would be the Hathorne Studies Hawthorne studies.

In essence, so long as you pay attention to the workers and give them positive reinforcement for their performance, they'll do their best up until you break them completely.
KnightRunner
It is worth noting that the Hawthorne studies are 70 years old and society amd the workplace has changed significantly. And before we all start shouting the Hawthorne gospel, many consider it to be unscientific and trivial.
mfb
total aside: KnightRunner, if you don't have a commlink named KITT, i'm going to be very disappointed with you.
Dog
So far, it looks like wageslavery includes financial coercion through things like debt and corp scrip --keeping the employees running the Red Queen's race-- as well as extensive use of various motivational techniques, some ethical and positive, some not. I'd imagine that since there are so many different ideas about what's effective motivation, that each corp (hell, each manager) could be using different ideas. Another commonality is some sort of strict monitoring of employees. Lastly, I would include fostering some degree of xenophobia towards anything outside of the corp.
I think that all of these elements, used together, generate wageslaves most effectively. When I try to think of what differentiates runners from the general populace, I think of the freedom-from/freedom-to debate.
SL James
QUOTE (PlatonicPimp)
Given how distopian I find modern, real world wage slavery, SR's version strikes me as little more than an open, honest version of the same. You work for us. If you stop, you die. Termination in SR just cuts to the quick, it kills you outright instead of letting you slowly starve to death.

But where's the fun in that? Better to dump their asses in the Barrens. Especially two weeks before they retire and/or during the holidays.
toturi
QUOTE (mfb)
total aside: KnightRunner, if you don't have a commlink named KITT, i'm going to be very disappointed with you.

So would I. rotfl.gif
Grinder
Iirc there was a line in an old sourcebook that said that most employees who will reach retirement age soon are supposed to become "volunteers" for experimental medial treatment and such.
mfb
wageslavery is not supposed to have any relation to actual slavery--the reasons slavery is wrong are different from the reasons wageslavery is wrong. wageslaves are dystopian not because they're forced to work on pain of death (though some of them are), but because they want to work for their corporation. they view it with patriotism and pride, and in return the corporation hides the truth of the world from them. wageslaves make the poor poorer and the rich richer, they keep the pollution flowing and the green initiatives dead, they steal power from nation-states and give it to the corporations. none of SR's dystopia would be possible without willing, eager wageslaves. that's why they're dystopian.
SL James
Well, there is also the aspect where they are slaves to their present-day reliance on their wages so that the slightest change would financially cripple them. In SR, it becomes a matter of concern if that happens because a sufficiently knowledgeable or well-positioned corper could be leaned on.
KnightRunner
Ahh the Mind of a gamer... how twisted a thing.

Of course I have such a device. It is installed in a Eurocar Westwind with an embedded AI.
Ryu
What with playing fair and all, my first run for you would pay VERY good. You´d need the cash to buy a new car.
Penta
Because I'm a loser who missed class by my internal clock being an HOUR off, I'm going to post this, basically to kill time:

What I see wageslavery as being like:

Anybody here ever live in a one-company town? Not a town owned by the company, but one *dependent* on one company for economic survival?

In a larger scale, that's wage slavery.

In SR, I doubt severely that Bob Warehouse Worker lives in corp housing, goes to corp entertainment, watches corp trid, gets paid in corp scrip, etc, etc.

No. His life hasn't changed in the decades since our times, not really.

The same applies for all low-level workers. Your KE cop on the beat does not live off Ares like that. Rather, they all are like people who live in a factory town; They work at the factory, everybody in town has someone who works at the factory, or worked at the factory. Or they're dependent upon the money the factory puts into the local economy for their survival, like shop owners.

But, and this is where it's new...Your middle managers? Your researcher types? Your junior execs?

Yup. They do. They live in corp housing, eat at corp dining halls, watch corp trid, get paid in corp scrip.

That's never happened before. Historically, these were the "freest" sorts of people still considered to not be the owners.
hyzmarca
QUOTE (Edgar Friendly)
You live up top, you live Cocteau's way: what he wants, when he wants, how he wants. Your other choice, come down here, maybe starve to death.


Excuse me while I go and buy a clean pack of seashells.
Be well; I'll see you at the Taco Bell.
lorechaser
QUOTE (SL James)
Well, there is also the aspect where they are slaves to their present-day reliance on their wages so that the slightest change would financially cripple them. In SR, it becomes a matter of concern if that happens because a sufficiently knowledgeable or well-positioned corper could be leaned on.

And it would cripple them far beyond the idea of living paycheck to paycheck.

Am I wrong in my assumption that the majority of a wageslave's possessions are not owned by the person, but by the corp? I swear that was a major theme, but it's been a while since I've read the relevant flavor.

My remembrance is that the employee has corp scrip, which they can use to buy incidentals, foods, luxuries. All their needs (housing, food, medical care) are simply a part of their benefits. So when they die, there's no need for a will or the like, the corp simply moves out the stuff (which they own) and puts someone new in....
SL James
Pretty much, yeah.

QUOTE (Penta)
In SR, I doubt severely that Bob Warehouse Worker lives in corp housing, goes to corp entertainment, watches corp trid, gets paid in corp scrip, etc, etc.

Dude. What? Except that, you know, pretty much everything ever written about the subject has either said outright or highly suggested the exact opposite.
Grinder
Yep.

*cough*arcologies*cough*
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