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FlakJacket
I don't have my books in front of me at the moment, but does the Seattle Metroplex have the death penalty on the statute books? Doing a quick search it seems that the current day Washington state has the death penalty, but I don't remember any of the sourcebooks mentioning it for Shadowrun's Seattle one way or the other.
Ancient History
Official death penalty, or "Breathing While SINless And Running Into A Lone Star Officer" penalty?
Penta
I presume he means official.
Ancient History
Well, according to the most recent source (ha ha ha), Seattle does not have a death penalty. Federal law may be a little different.
Snow_Fox
RL current washington state does have the death penalty. The condemned may choose death by leathal injection or the noose.

There was a case a few years back where a man choose the noose them put on weight and appealed against execution claiming he was now so fat he would be decapitated by the noose. the judge put him on a diet.
FlakJacket
Hanging? Now that's cool. If I had to choose a way to be executed it'd have to be a choice between either firing squad or the long drop. I'm surprised that Shadowrun's Seattle doesn't have a death penalty though.
SL James
I think it's unconscionable.
Penta
Leaving aside moral points *glares at SL James's transparent trolling*, it's worth noting that Seattle and the environs is traditionally very liberal politically; There's something of a divide between Eastern Washington state (conservative and rural), and Western Washington (liberal and urban), in terms of general political tendencies.
hyzmarca
There used to be an old urban legend that a person who survived execution had to be set free, this is untrue for technical reasons. However, I wonder about people who are magically resurrected. If you're sentenced to be hung by the neck until you are dead, and that sentence is carried out, it seems that the reanimated individual should be free to go, assuming that his reanimation has more to do with 4th World Wizard spells than with Shedim.
SL James
I meant it's unconscionable that SR's Seattle doesn't have a goddamn death penalty. Given Lone Star's more-than-willing to kill people reputation, what the Hell difference would it make?
Penta
Simple: Easier to switch contracts than change statute.
Ancient History
QUOTE (SL James)
I meant it's unconscionable that SR's Seattle doesn't have a goddamn death penalty. Given Lone Star's more-than-willing to kill people reputation, what the Hell difference would it make?

Makes better business sense, really. After all, why get paid to kill a murderer once when you can charge the metroplex to hold him for the rest of his/her natural life?
krayola red
Er, doesn't that argument advocate in favor of a death penalty? Capital punishment is a policy decision that lies within the domain of the Seattle government, not Lone Star, and why pay to hold a murderer for the rest of their natural life when you can just kill them?
emo samurai
It's the government. The government doesn't care about efficient spending.
hyzmarca
The government is run by people who get paid a very small amount of money considering how important their job is. There are two ways that they can balance this. They can continue to hold a regular job and neglect their official duties, which is what may do at the local levels, or they can rely on what are called kickbacks for their income.

Kickbacks work quite simply and very nicely. If you have hiring power then a company who is looking or an individual for a job will pay you to hire it. Since the money used to pay for the job does not come out of your pocket you make a profit. The bigger the kickback, of course, the bigger the profit you make, so it is best the hire the companies that are willing to provide the best kickbacks.
SL James
QUOTE (Ancient History)
QUOTE (SL James @ Nov 26 2006, 02:15 AM)
I meant it's unconscionable that SR's Seattle doesn't have a goddamn death penalty. Given Lone Star's more-than-willing to kill people reputation, what the Hell difference would it make?

Makes better business sense, really. After all, why get paid to kill a murderer once

Because it's not like you can kill him again anyway.
PlatonicPimp
There are ways, SL james. There are ways......
SL James
Of course there are, but it's not worth the time and effort.
nezumi
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
I wonder about people who are magically resurrected.

If there is a resurrection spell in SR4 I am going to scream. If you're talking about Shedim (or zombies or other spirit possession), it's a new entity in an old body and should be treated as such, generally with a flamethrower.
hyzmarca
QUOTE (nezumi)
QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Nov 25 2006, 09:10 PM)
I wonder about people who are magically resurrected.

If there is a resurrection spell in SR4 I am going to scream. If you're talking about Shedim (or zombies or other spirit possession), it's a new entity in an old body and should be treated as such, generally with a flamethrower.

Umm... My group is using Microsoft rules... devil.gif
Konsaki
So when the rezed body suddenly turns blue and stops moving, we know where the refference came from, gotcha.
SL James
Oh, also while you can kill the body quite a few times, you can only send them to Hell once (unless Seattle somehow gets ahold of some cybermantic ritual-capable mages).
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
However, I wonder about people who are magically resurrected.

They get tossed into the lava sea.

~J
Dog
QUOTE (krayola red)
Er, doesn't that argument advocate in favor of a death penalty?

Depends on if you're the guy paying, or the guy getting paid.

I'd be less concerned about the Metroplex government allowing the death penalty than I would about any of the extraterritorial corps kicking around. After all, if you've done something that might warrant the death penalty, chances are at some point that a corp will be involved.

I imagine that Lone Star has some policy like this. Say you've committed mass murder of non-corp citizens on municipal territory and LS comes to arrest you. If you go quietly, they are expected to follow the municipal laws and once you're convicted you go to jail for life. But if you kill some cops before they grab you, LS gets to invoke some sort of clause where they can sentence you to death under their corp laws before the Seattle government gets you. (Which is redundant in a few ways, I realize.)

Fortune
QUOTE (Dog @ Dec 3 2006, 04:17 AM)
I imagine that Lone Star has some policy like this.  Say you've committed mass murder of non-corp citizens on municipal territory and LS comes to arrest you.  If you go quietly, they are expected to follow the municipal laws and once you're convicted you go to jail for life.  But if you kill some cops before they grab you, LS gets to invoke some sort of clause where they can sentence you to death under their corp laws before the Seattle government gets you.  (Which is redundant in a few ways, I realize.)

I imagine Lone Star has the policy that if you off a cop or two, especially when they are in the process of arresting you, then your head is going to spring a leak as soon as they get a chance. No death sentence needed when you are killed while resisting arrest.
Dog
That being the redundancy I was referring to...
Fortune
Fair enough then. biggrin.gif
Adarael
SL James:

I think it's a perfect example of the cultural schizophrenia in the sixth world that there isn't a death penalty. I mean, the state looks shinier and more progressive on the books, as it prefers (officially) not to resort to such 'barbarity.'

But if you (the politician) look out the window, you can see the Barrens over Lake Washington. You know there are people there killing eachother there over scraps of food. You know that sometimes Lone Star has to send some guys with assault rifles to Bellevue to hose down the more uppity ones. But, on paper, none of those corpses exist.

And that's the cognative dissonance in Shadowrun that I love so well.
SL James
Actually I'm thinking about walling the Barrens off and selling the trid rights to see what happens to prisoners dumped there.
Snow_Fox
Just don't let the president's plane crash there.
Jack Kain
QUOTE (Snow_Fox)
Just don't let the president's plane crash there.

yeah you'l have to hire Snake Plissken to get him out.
Snow_Fox
I thought he was dead.
SL James
Well, taking a cue from another thread, we can always conjure some Great Forms and drown the miserable bastards.
Adarael
QUOTE
Actually I'm thinking about walling the Barrens off and selling the trid rights to see what happens to prisoners dumped there.


Now THAT'S what I'm talking about. Turn an eyesore into a profit.
Now we're cooking with 6th World gas!
Slump
nono, you add the gas to the barrens, and set it alight.
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