Prehaps my search fu is weak today or there just isn't something easily accessable to me atm.
Has anyone gone to the trouble of "mapping out" both physical and or stun damage values to comparable real life injuries and their physical side-effects?
Like:
1P = small flesh wound, annoying but hardly something to get in your way
9P = Gaping hole in your back from a shotgun blast at close range, at best you can blink your eyes and say a little prayer.
Just curious as I'm just having a hard time transposing the condition monitors to real injuries/effects. I'd like to play it straight and as realistically as possible.
Thanks a million in advance.
Full Version: Translating Damage to RL Terms
..I actually had copy from several medical journals on gunshot wounds, both diagrammatic and images, wich I used for a while running in the SR2/3 days.
"...now you got hit by a slug from that M22A2 . This is the path the bullet takes through your character's body, this is the Temporary Cavity it creates as it passes through, This is the entry wound, and this is the exit wound. Now mark off 6 boxes"
"...now you got hit by a slug from that M22A2 . This is the path the bullet takes through your character's body, this is the Temporary Cavity it creates as it passes through, This is the entry wound, and this is the exit wound. Now mark off 6 boxes"
I think it has less to do with what it looks like or has done to your entire body than how close to death it has put you. A .22 slug in the heart (a low base damage attack pumped up with a lot of hits, and not knocked low with defense and damage resistance dice), that hasn't actually exited might not make a large wound, but could be a 17P attack.
At the same time, 1,000 pimp-slaps might turn your entire body red and irritated, but only be a point stun. I think the penalties you suffer are either due to pain, actual impairment, or both.
Ironically, I'm in a fair amount of pain typing right now because I suffered a particularly nasty papercut on my right index finger that seems to repopen constantly. I wouldn't call it a point of either Stun or Physical damage, since I could ignore it in a combat situation, and I'm not any closer to death than I was before
I try to describe the special effects of damage as best as I can. Sometimes it takes a lot of imagination
Dread Polack
At the same time, 1,000 pimp-slaps might turn your entire body red and irritated, but only be a point stun. I think the penalties you suffer are either due to pain, actual impairment, or both.
Ironically, I'm in a fair amount of pain typing right now because I suffered a particularly nasty papercut on my right index finger that seems to repopen constantly. I wouldn't call it a point of either Stun or Physical damage, since I could ignore it in a combat situation, and I'm not any closer to death than I was before
I try to describe the special effects of damage as best as I can. Sometimes it takes a lot of imagination
Dread Polack
| QUOTE (Dread Polack) |
| I think it has less to do with what it looks like or has done to your entire body than how close to death it has put you. A .22 slug in the heart (a low base damage attack pumped up with a lot of hits, and not knocked low with defense and damage resistance dice), that hasn't actually exited might not make a large wound, but could be a 17P attack. At the same time, 1,000 pimp-slaps might turn your entire body red and irritated, but only be a point stun. I think the penalties you suffer are either due to pain, actual impairment, or both. |
That's basically my point... I'm looking for generics more or less.
I.E. generally (assuming you're talking about a PC with a stun and physical track of 10 each) with 5P damage you're feeling like X, with 2S you're feeling like Y. At 15P (after soak and extended time) you're dead.
Does that make more sense? I've asked questions of other players in the past and it seems like people had mentioned some kind of "chart" or mutually agreeed upon kind of "stats" but I've never personally seen it.
That's kinda what I'm looking for. I mean I don't want to treat 7P from an air spirit like a papercut
...I usually only puled the articles out when a player hung up the game by debating just how his character could be taken down so quickly. It would get the point across so we could move on.
Actually depending on the type gun and ammo used, a vital organ can be ruptured without the bullet passing directly through or even next to it due to the cavity created by the shockwave. It was pretty interesting stuff.
Actually depending on the type gun and ammo used, a vital organ can be ruptured without the bullet passing directly through or even next to it due to the cavity created by the shockwave. It was pretty interesting stuff.
Depending on the vital organ as well. The liver is particularly vulnerable, and while the tissues of the heart might not be damaged by it might cause commotio cordis. Some organs don't tend to give a damn about passing high energy projectiles.
This site provides a decent intro into terminal ballistics. Firearmstactical.com has several interesting articles and a few gelatin test images.
There's quite a bit of discussion what the SR3-style damage levels sort of might represent, maybe, in these two threads.
This site provides a decent intro into terminal ballistics. Firearmstactical.com has several interesting articles and a few gelatin test images.
There's quite a bit of discussion what the SR3-style damage levels sort of might represent, maybe, in these two threads.
I try to describe it like so, with how many dice they've lost as an indicator:
-0 dice: "Whew, that was close, you'll want to patch that shirt up when this is over"
-1 dice: "Uff! Good thing your vest caught most of that"
-2 dice: "Eh, just a flesh wound"
-3 dice: "Your you're bleeding from a gut wound, the pain is immense and it's hard to see straight"
-4 dice: "You're one tough cookie, but even your redundant organs that you had installed are starting to fail, lie down and pretend you're dead"
-0 dice: "Whew, that was close, you'll want to patch that shirt up when this is over"
-1 dice: "Uff! Good thing your vest caught most of that"
-2 dice: "Eh, just a flesh wound"
-3 dice: "Your you're bleeding from a gut wound, the pain is immense and it's hard to see straight"
-4 dice: "You're one tough cookie, but even your redundant organs that you had installed are starting to fail, lie down and pretend you're dead"
I've always found that there's no real way to "realistically" determine damage in an RPG. You accept it on faith that it's just a high-level system designed to give a method to track the life and death of creatures/players in a game.
For example, you ask the difference between 1P of damage vs. 9P of damage. Well, that depends, doesn't it?
1P of damage to someone at full health (no damage taken) might mean a big bruise, a minor flesh wound, or a pulled/strained muscle. Simultaneously, that 1P of damage to someone with 8P of wounds already could mean their spinal column was just cracked in 4 places.
The same 1P of damage. Totally different results.
Essentially, you have to use your imagination and the situation to determine how damage is dealt. Don't feel constrained to use the source the damage as being the "thing that actually did the damage". Allow me to clarify.
Someone is shot while behind cover with a pistol. The damage total was 2P. Instead of saying " the bullet grazes your ear", you could say "The bullet falls short, spattering against your cover sending shrapnel and debris into your face, cutting you badly, but not seriously".
A bullet does not have to penetrate armour to strike flesh in order to wound someone. The concussive strike of a bullet carries into the body even if it is stopped by armour. People can die of ruptured organs, internal bleeding and broken bones as a result of bullets striking their body that don't actually penetrate their armour.
Just some ways to handle damage in a situational sense. I don't believe you can ever equate "5P worth of damage to being 1 broken bone, 4 lacerations and a partridge in a pear tree..."
For example, you ask the difference between 1P of damage vs. 9P of damage. Well, that depends, doesn't it?
1P of damage to someone at full health (no damage taken) might mean a big bruise, a minor flesh wound, or a pulled/strained muscle. Simultaneously, that 1P of damage to someone with 8P of wounds already could mean their spinal column was just cracked in 4 places.
The same 1P of damage. Totally different results.
Essentially, you have to use your imagination and the situation to determine how damage is dealt. Don't feel constrained to use the source the damage as being the "thing that actually did the damage". Allow me to clarify.
Someone is shot while behind cover with a pistol. The damage total was 2P. Instead of saying " the bullet grazes your ear", you could say "The bullet falls short, spattering against your cover sending shrapnel and debris into your face, cutting you badly, but not seriously".
A bullet does not have to penetrate armour to strike flesh in order to wound someone. The concussive strike of a bullet carries into the body even if it is stopped by armour. People can die of ruptured organs, internal bleeding and broken bones as a result of bullets striking their body that don't actually penetrate their armour.
Just some ways to handle damage in a situational sense. I don't believe you can ever equate "5P worth of damage to being 1 broken bone, 4 lacerations and a partridge in a pear tree..."
| QUOTE (Aemon) |
| The concussive strike of a bullet carries into the body even if it is stopped by armour. People can die of ruptured organs, internal bleeding and broken bones as a result of bullets striking their body that don't actually penetrate their armour. |
Can, certainly. (I've yet to see a credible report of that happening, however, and would appreciate any linkage you might have.) A shotgun slug vs. a heavy flexible armor vest causing a few points of physical could be described as causing severe blunt trauma in the form of a cracked rib and some internal bleeding, but when you're talking about non-armor piercing handgun rounds vs. body armor or rifles vs. rifle plates, the most likely result is minor bruising which barely qualifies as 1 point of physical. So when someone wearing an Armored Vest gets hit with an Ares Predator firing standard ammo causing 6P, I'd much rather go with a hit in the groin penetrating and fracturing the pelvis and causing severe bleeding but missing the iliac/femoral arteries.
A grazed ear seems way too minor a wound to be 2P. Having a chunk of your ear blown off, sure, but just grazing it rather seems like a fine way of describing a narrowly dodged bullet.
| QUOTE (Lagomorph) |
| I try to describe it like so, with how many dice they've lost as an indicator: -0 dice: "Whew, that was close, you'll want to patch that shirt up when this is over" -1 dice: "Uff! Good thing your vest caught most of that" -2 dice: "Eh, just a flesh wound" -3 dice: "Your you're bleeding from a gut wound, the pain is immense and it's hard to see straight" -4 dice: "You're one tough cookie, but even your redundant organs that you had installed are starting to fail, lie down and pretend you're dead" |
Vegas- I see what you're getting at. I like Lagomorph's breakdown, although I'd revise it so that the penalties are more severe. Keep in mind that a -2 for most people is 60% of the way toward critical condition. Most of us will never see a -2 penalty in our lives (at leat not in pure physical damage. Stun, maybe).
As for stun damage:
-1 dce: Like hitting your funny bone, hard. (although it lasts longer)
-2 dice: Slamming your hand in the car door or hitting it with a hammer.
-3 dice: clubbed repeatedly with an aluminum baseball bad or a few times with a crow bar. (in real life, not in SR).
-4 dice: A professional beat-down by a team of thugs or cops
Dread Polack
| QUOTE (Austere Emancipator) |
| Can, certainly. (I've yet to see a credible report of that happening, however, and would appreciate any linkage you might have.) A shotgun slug vs. a heavy flexible armor vest causing a few points of physical could be described as causing severe blunt trauma in the form of a cracked rib and some internal bleeding, but when you're talking about non-armor piercing handgun rounds vs. body armor or rifles vs. rifle plates, by far the most likely result is minor bruising which barely qualifies as 1 point of physical. So when someone wearing an Armored Vest gets hit with an Ares Predator firing standard ammo causing 6P, I'd much rather go with a hit in the groin penetrating and fracturing the pelvis and causing severe bleeding but missing the iliac/femoral arteries. A grazed ear seems way too minor a wound to be 2P. Having a chunk of your ear blown off, sure, but just grazing it rather seems like a fine way of describing a narrowly dodged bullet. |
Austere,
I have none
I just know the force of impact a bullet can have going into armour, regardless of the round itself being stopped, a lot of force carries over into the body. Remember, this is all theoretical damage we're talking about here - I for one am not trying to replicate the Damage Chart system into real-life... just finding ways to thematically apply it to the game so that it is enjoyable to all.
The wound modifiers help a lot towards figuring out how serious the damage is.
-1 Wound mod: Serious pain. Shaking a bit from it. Like being hit with a big blunt object or getting slashed shallowly with a knife. Bullets causing flesh wound(s).
-2 Wound mod: Agonizing. Breathing heavily, getting hard to focus. A troll just threw you across a room into some furniture with sharp corners. You've been stabbed or had some toes/bits cut off. Broken bone. Bullet hit in arm, leg, side.
-3 Wound mod: Infirm with pain. Senses starting to cut off. You got hit with the blast from a grenade or was hit by a car. You've been shocked by a stun baton. You've had a limb cut off or taken a sword slash across your body. Bullet hit in torso, face or head.
Does this sound about right? It might be a bit severe.
-1 Wound mod: Serious pain. Shaking a bit from it. Like being hit with a big blunt object or getting slashed shallowly with a knife. Bullets causing flesh wound(s).
-2 Wound mod: Agonizing. Breathing heavily, getting hard to focus. A troll just threw you across a room into some furniture with sharp corners. You've been stabbed or had some toes/bits cut off. Broken bone. Bullet hit in arm, leg, side.
-3 Wound mod: Infirm with pain. Senses starting to cut off. You got hit with the blast from a grenade or was hit by a car. You've been shocked by a stun baton. You've had a limb cut off or taken a sword slash across your body. Bullet hit in torso, face or head.
Does this sound about right? It might be a bit severe.
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