Hi,

I'm making my first decker and I'm having real problems making this character, the biggest problem is that I'm only allowed to take 400000 in money, and after I have bought some really important cyber/bioware I have about 230000 left for deck and programs, and I'm not allowed to make my own deck or program

So a Novatech Hyperdeck-6 is a no-brainer or?

What programs?

/Peter

Well, you're in a bit of a rough spot. Are you using the Matrix rules, or straight SR3 core book?

Considering your cash squeeze, my first advice is to ignore that attack programs exist. Later, when you have a bottle cyberdeck, you can start getting into cybercombat.

Go with the Hyperdeck-6, put your Masking and Sensor at 6, divide up Evade and Body however you want.

The next step is to buy Sleaze. This is your single most important program, get it at the highest rating you can run. Always keep this at the highest rating you can run. Never consider doing anything without the highest rating of this you can get.

The following programs are the ones I consider critical, and should be kept at the level of your MPCP when possible:

Deception
Browse
Read/Write
If you're using the Matrix rules, Validate
Spoof
Decrypt

If you've got cash left over after taking the above at the absolute highest level you can, consider some of the following at whatever level you can get:

Analyze
Camo
Commlink
Crash
Purge
Scanner
Sniffer
Snooper
Swerve

Then we get our fourth-tier programs. Get these when you can, possibly later in the game.

Any operational utility not covered above
Track
Offensive and defensive utilities of your choice

Obviously, if you intend to use an unusual method of access that requires a program (satellite, cellular, laser, MASER, whatever), put that in tier three or two. Having Sleaze is more important than being able to access the Matrix. Just follow this advice and you should be robin.

~J

using SR3 and Matrix rules.

don't know what way I will access the Matrix, some kind of illegal jackpoint I think.

Do I need anything more then Electronics B/R to do that? Does a decker normally need Electronics?

Installing a dataline tap is an Eb/r task. The only things I remember Electronics being used for are setting up laser and microwave links.

~J

Why the 400K limit? Does your GM know how much this'll limit your deck? Does he have advice?

I do, and always will, recommend starting your Decker without a Deck. You're much better off being ready to deck, than have a deck. Instead, make a Decker that can survive, some speed, some survival cyber (smartlink), etc. You'll maybe go a few games without a deck, but keep your eye open for oppurtunity.

I would however, recommend that you get your programs at character creation. Store them on optical chips until you get a deck you can install them on. You'll be much happier in the long run.

You might want to ask him. It'd be useful to know.

I disagree with Sphynx's recommendation, but there are situations in which it is worthwhile—particularly if you expect high pay or chances to scavenge or barter for a better deck than at chargen. Still, I don't think it's good advice in general.

~J

It's kinda required actually, to wait that is. Considering the availability factor, the most powerful deck a character can start with ( even at a million ) won't get past the weakest systems if he's playing by decking rules. I've showed that in practice on the forum a couple of years ago. If he plays the 'make a computer roll' to get data, it works, but not with the decking rules. I'm also guessing that he's thinking the same thing if he gave only the decker those rules (I'd only do that if I intended to provide a deck in-game within the first couple of games). Regardless, I learned years ago, never start with a deck, the decker is as useless with, as without a deck at all.

PS. Another good idea is to make your decker a security rigger as well. All they need is a datajack after all.

I actually did that years back. Creating a decker under the priority rules, with 400k ressources, meaning no deck. A on skills, C Attributes and D equals free dwarf .

The char was heavily augmented, and had quite a few useful skills on a high rating. I even choose to make her look harmless, so no cyberware like smart link (actually, she had a smartlink processer and what else you need hidden between the headware memory and what else was implanted in her brain, but no obvious induction pads. Relied on a stylish wire for that).

I never got my really exceptional deck. Would have made no difference if I started with one though.

My most fun char and the longest played.

No dwarf is ever free (running multiplier, anyone?).

~J

-1 Running Mult for +4 Attributes and bonus Body dice for pathogens and improved vision.... -1 for running sure doesn't seem like much of a cost.

I'm not saying it's terribly expensive, either, but it's certainly enough to make me think twice about doing it in any given case. That seems fairly not-free.

Especially since Quickness typically floats around 6-7, we're talking the loss of 6-7 meters of movement. That's big. Again, whether or not it's bigger than attributes, vision, and body dice is a matter of taste (though you also have to subtract out gear issues, reduced vertical mobility, so on and soforth), but there are plenty of valid reasons not to do it even when it doesn't cost anything extrinsic to dwarfness.

~J

What edge is this? I've clearly missed it.

~J

Same here Kyoto, we almost always pre-build our own deck with Matrix rules, but without any rolling, if we start with a deck. Decks are just too expensive otherwise. More likely than not though, since every corp you hit will have deckers protecting the place, we plan our runs in a 'grab a deck' level of planning (especially if the decker security is maintained off-site)

And, unless I misremember, has been absent from the game since 3nd edition came out.

~J

That would explain why - I haven't ponied up for 4th ed. yet.

</derail>

i don't think it's around in 3rd ed, either.

okay, here's what you need for your deck. get the best deck you can afford; i don't feel like looking up what that is at the moment. the programs you'll need are: Deception-6, Validate-6, Sleaze-6, and Cloak-6.

pretty much everything else can wait. set your deck into Masking mode and go. Deception-6 should get you onto the system; Sleaze-6 should keep you undiscovered until you can use Validate-6 to make yourself an account. if you do get discovered, use Cloak-6 to duck out of combat. if you've got enough cash left over, it might be good to grab Armor-6 or something, in case something gets the drop on you.

I've ran a character through from no deck to cyber terminal to CMT Avatar to a good running deck. So I hope this is useful:
As already stated
Sleaze: Keeps you hidden and your security tally down* Important*
Deception: Gets you onto a node
Browse: Lets you find things
These three are the backbone of a deck

Read/write and Spoof cover the usal things a decker does on a run.
Validate is exspensive but if the account making works opens up the system, on the other hand, if the system has a high control your out of luck.
Decryption often used on low end runs to stop scramble IC being a show stopper.
Armour is a must for cyber combat, so if you want to mix it up buy it.

Now decide on what kind of decker you want to be while you roleplay. Buy programs around that style.

Take a grade three math spu. This is a must buy, its cheap, low essence and gives you three bonus hacking pool, take this in favour of a cerbral booster.
Active and storage memory are cheap to increase on your deck, as is IO speed. You can therefore cheaply upgrade to the next deck (bar persona incease) till you can afford the next deck. More importantly with a little time you can take this increase with you to the next deck.

Hope this is useful

Where was I. Let's assume you've got a Hyperdeck-6, Masking 6, Sleaze 6, Sensors 6, Deception 6, Browse 6, Read/Write 6, and Spoof 6 (I'm pretty sure that'll fit in a Hyperdeck without swapping, if not it makes things slightly but not much more difficult). You didn't say whether or not you have a math SPU; I'm going to assume you've got four points of Hacking Pool, let me know if that's inaccurate.

Before any modifiers, you've got a DF of 6. Using your Hacking Pool on it gets you up to 8. If your GM hasn't forbidden it, using Masking Mode to raise your effective Masking to 9 increases your base DF to ceiling((9+6)/2), or 8, so your Hacking Pool bonus gets you to 10.

Since you're a starting decker, you're hopefully not going after anything too exotic. Let's say you want to logon to a host, locate and download a file, edit the server copy, and then locate and edit a slave node. I've randomly generated (almost—I increased the difficulty slightly from what I generated) an appropriate host as follows (Green-Easy). Averages are out of your reach, but there's a lot you can still do:

Green 6 - 10/8/10/10/10 Host

Trigger Step
006 Probe 9 ®
010 Probe 5 ®
014 Tar Pit 7 ®
019 Tar Pit 5 ®
024 Tar Pit 5 ®
030 Passive Alert (+2 on all Subsystem Ratings)
034 Killer 7
038 Killer 5
043 Crippler (Bod) 7
047 Tar Pit 7 ®
053 Active Alert
057 Construct 9
063 Lethal Black IC 7
068 Lethal Black IC 9
074 Shutdown Started

Step 1, logon to host. I'm assuming you've got Skill 6. TN 4, you expect 3 successes, the host expects .5. You log on.

Tally: .5

Step 2, start searching. You need five successes. Again the TN is 4, so you expect 3 successes. The host will always expect .5. This time, the host hits a full success, so it cancels out one of yours.

Search successes: 2
Tally: 1.0

Step 3: Continue searching.

Search successes: 5
Tally: 1.5

Step 4: We've found the file. Next step is to download it with Read/Write. We're assuming the file is small enough to transfer in one combat turn. Three successes, one of which is countered by the system.

Tally: 2.0

Step 5: Editing time. Trivial.

Tally: 2.5

Step 6: Time to find that slave node. Searching. Host cancels one search success.

Search successes: 2
Tally: 3.0

Step 7: More searching. This turn the decker expects to find the node.

Successes: 5
Tally: 3.5

Step 8: Edit! Host cancels one success.

Tally: 4

Step 9: We're outta here. Graceful logoff. The host doesn't have a chance of stopping you.

Tally: 4.5

Doesn't look like a waste of money to me. Host attributes right up until 12-13 are still solidly doable for anything below 12 security, and so long as you've done something that will "keep" (like finding the location of something on a host so you don't need to search again) if you trigger IC you can just bail and come back later.

~J

Kage, I'm short on time this morning, but have more than a couple of comments on your Matrix run of things that are 'off'. However, since I want to verify that it's not me 'House Ruling' it, I'll need a moment when I have time to verify via the books the things that seem off. Ie: Not ignoring you, just can't reply quite yet.

Got it. I did all that off the top of my head, so it isn't impossible that I messed something up. I'll double-check myself if I get the time today.

~J

I'd be wary of the Suprathyroid gland, due to the fact that it drops your Signature by 1. If your GM doesn't use drones or opposing Riggers very often, it may not be such a big deal, but it paints a nice big target on you for them.

~J

...with a 400K maximum limit, I personally would allow the decker to come in with a custom designed/built deck & programmes were it my campaign. You can build a pretty good system (with a 6 MPCP) and still have enough change left over for implants & other gear (as long as you don't include a Black Hammer programme)

While heisting a deck may sound good in the beginning, the character needs to keep in mind they will be spending spend downtime to upgrade and customise it to his own personal needs (this means little time left for skill/attribute improvement). It is not a good thing to run around in the matrix using someone else's icon particularly if your team takes them out. I'm not sure how your GM runs things, but even my NPCs have friends and contacts. Also, make sure the character has the necessary technical skills to detect and flush out any kind of embedded tracking signal/IC that may have been installed by the corp or security decker you got the deck from.

As to implants, I notice you have not included anything that boosts your decker's initiative in the meat world, Not a good idea. All of the Deckers I ran had at least two dice of initiative if for anything, to just save her butt when things went south outside the Matrix. I would trade the SupraThyroid for a level 1 Synaptic Accelerator or Boosted reflexes 2. Also good to buy an external vidscreen that you can plug in once you get the deck. This way if you get into a real bad scrape, one of your teammates can jack you out before the IC fries your brain.

Why an induction datajack? That's to hide the fact that you have a datajack, so only makes sense to me if you don't have an obvious datajack already...

Personally, I'd suggest ditching all the bioware unless you really want the cerebrals (always 'ok' for a decker to have). You're gonna most likely be the 'tech' guy. Means cybereyes are important, not only because the Image Link makes the smartlink cheaper but because the microscopic vision gives you some nice bonuses when it's time to do some serious hardware or electronic work.

Sorry for the delay Kage, I'm home now and looking at the books. My first question is the 0.5 tally. Deception is 6, so TN is 6. Green - 6 means rolling 6 dice, TN 6. That should be 1.0 Tally per action, not 0.5, no?

Regardless, not sure if it's style or rulings, but my concern was the single search. I can't find anything, but even when you know what you're looking for, our GM usually requires 3 or more searches. It's like googling for something. First page rarely turns up what you're looking for. And we have to do a read/write between searches to see what our inquiry returned. He's probably just going to extremes, but I know we tally alot more than that on better decks. I'm probably wrong of course, we don't like playing with deckers so it could just be his rules to keep deckers out of the game, but I know we have alot more trouble than you show... o.O

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Whooj. Nice. So you get 8, six of which you can (and should) swap for 3 points of DF, the other points would go to whatever you were doing at the time. You might almost be able to take on a Green-Average, though I wouldn't recommend it.

~J

If your lucky in cyber combat, have armour 6 and using improvised attack, you can take a Green average. Trust me I've done it.

This thread makes me sad that I play SR4, not SR3.

i believe that in 3e, boosted reflexes can be upgraded--just not removed (except via the genetic stuff in SOTA:63).