Full Version: How do I cross walls?
| QUOTE (Butterblume) |
| I kinda computed jump ranges in my head, but knassers pictures say more than 1000 numbers. |
I feel happy.
I did start a more crowded picture with a standard trolls, some more stats and (if I recall correctly) a barghest. I can dig it out if there's interest.
Who cares about trolls, I play dwarfs...
BTW what is a parkor adept?
Wiki page on parkour. As for a parkour adept, it's simply an adept that's chosen their adept powers with a view to improving the skills - climing, running, jumping etc. - that you use when doing it. Do a search for parkour at YouTube or Google Video, they got some good clips that should illustrate things.
Google Video for "Freerunning" or "Free running" , and you'll see some seriously awesome stuff. 
Now I'm probably going to be blacklisted by some crazy "True Parkourist" lurking here...
Now I'm probably going to be blacklisted by some crazy "True Parkourist" lurking here...
As I understand the wikipage, freerunning is like parkour, but with the added element of showing of with tricks, probably makes for cooler videos, but a less efficient way of crossing urban obstacles.
| QUOTE |
| nor a runner who relies on equipment, hangliders or grapple guns |
This makes it harder. The 10m drop isn't a problem if you have a few ranks of freefall, making hanggliders unescessary. Getting up is another matter.
It's a long shot, but can wall running be combined with rooting, in order to run up part of a wall, root there for a round, and then run further on?
Isn't there an adept power that acts like gecko gloves? Am I just imagining that there used to be such a power? (I know there's a spell called Spider Climb in the other game, but that doesn't help much here)
Nice thread knasser.
| QUOTE (psykotisk_overlegen) |
| As I understand the wikipage, freerunning is like parkour, but with the added element of showing of with tricks, probably makes for cooler videos, but a less efficient way of crossing urban obstacles. |
Yeah, like sommersaulting over a one feet high obstacle...
| QUOTE |
| Isn't there an adept power that acts like gecko gloves? |
I know there was a spell, gecko crawl or something like that.
Thinking about climbing the hard way:
10m unassisted climbing upward on a sheer wall is a climbing+STR (15, 1 combat turn) test, at -4 dice. An assumed adept (4 climbing, 5 strength) would statistically need 9-10 combat turns. That can hurt if you are in a hurry.
Since I am at it, my new char, mundane with 'ware has 4(+4) climbing, 5 strength and gecko gloves (climbing boni by enhanced articulation and synthacardium).
so, a climbing + STR (10, 1 combat turn) test, at -2 dice. Less than 3 turns
. Hey, finally something I'm better at (altough the adept can roughly half the time to 4-5 turns buy using gecko gloves himself).Also, as GM I would probably let the adept use wall running as far as he can and let him climb the rest.
The problem is that you're asking for something that's just beyond the pale. Running straight up a 10 meter wall with nothing nearby to leap off (everything I've seen about free running suggests that you're best off bouncing) is gonna require something more than just a really high jump check.
If you want to just get over it fast, by climbing, that's another thing entirely.
If you're building the adept, give him Wall Running (1 pp), Gliding (1 pp) and Flexibility 6 (1.5 pp). Great leap 6 (1.5 pp). Improved Ability (Climb) 6 (1.5 pp). Improved Ability (Gymnastics) 6 (1.5 pp). Improved Ability (Running) 6 (1.5 pp). Possibly ability boost. Freefall 6 (1.5 pp).
Granted, all those together are too much - it's 11 pp total. So pick and choose among them, but....
And the Gecko Crawl power was something proposed on DS, not in the book. It was a power that seemed logical based on the spell. It's found here
If you want to just get over it fast, by climbing, that's another thing entirely.
If you're building the adept, give him Wall Running (1 pp), Gliding (1 pp) and Flexibility 6 (1.5 pp). Great leap 6 (1.5 pp). Improved Ability (Climb) 6 (1.5 pp). Improved Ability (Gymnastics) 6 (1.5 pp). Improved Ability (Running) 6 (1.5 pp). Possibly ability boost. Freefall 6 (1.5 pp).
Granted, all those together are too much - it's 11 pp total. So pick and choose among them, but....
And the Gecko Crawl power was something proposed on DS, not in the book. It was a power that seemed logical based on the spell. It's found here
Hm, I didn't consider unassisted climbing, because I thought it would just be impossible to climb a sheer, smooth wall without equipment or magic. But RAW it's just an extended test with a very high treshhold.(as butterblume pointed out)
Using edge it can probably be done with a wall runn the first six meters(six hits on a running+strength) then six hits on climbing the last 4 meters unassisted (1.5x distance) albeit at a -4 dice pool.
Or, ask your gm to include the geckocrawl power. I personally like it as an upgraded version of wall running, rather than as a stand alone power.
Using edge it can probably be done with a wall runn the first six meters(six hits on a running+strength) then six hits on climbing the last 4 meters unassisted (1.5x distance) albeit at a -4 dice pool.
Or, ask your gm to include the geckocrawl power. I personally like it as an upgraded version of wall running, rather than as a stand alone power.
I play a character named Skate who's a kind of cyber version of this. For the record, you can put cyberjacks in partial cyberlegs... they work pretty well there, although they just eat the capacity.
The incredible limiter on his max distance right now is, IIRC, his Athletics group still being at 4. That's gotta go up soon. It's basically this giant wall he hits (no pun intended) right in the middle of the bell curve on how far he can go. Agility is going to be pegged to human max soon.
Skate's got no trouble jumping from rooftop to rooftop, pulling a Matrix 2 on highways, or doing a lot of other cool shit that involves flinging himself all over creation. When augmentation comes out (and hopefully brings the magnetic limb systems with it), he's getting those added in, and some gecko gloves too.
Even maxed out, though, I don't think Skate can pull off a 10 meter wall. I'm pretty sure that Agil 9 and Jacks 6 would get him to a max vertical leap height of 6.6 meters. You're talking about essentially dead-jumping onto the roof of a three story building.
Most of the parkour stunts I see where they're going up the outside of buildings involves stopping at ledges, hooking onto pipes, and doing a bunch of other things. A single jump isn't parkour, it's Bunnyman. If this is a 34 foot tall sheer concrete wall in the middle of an urban area, your GM has problems, but a couple of EXEX rifle rounds or panther shells fired into that wall a few days ahead of time (to make nice big pockmarks/handholds for your ascent during the run) would help a lot.
The incredible limiter on his max distance right now is, IIRC, his Athletics group still being at 4. That's gotta go up soon. It's basically this giant wall he hits (no pun intended) right in the middle of the bell curve on how far he can go. Agility is going to be pegged to human max soon.
Skate's got no trouble jumping from rooftop to rooftop, pulling a Matrix 2 on highways, or doing a lot of other cool shit that involves flinging himself all over creation. When augmentation comes out (and hopefully brings the magnetic limb systems with it), he's getting those added in, and some gecko gloves too.
Even maxed out, though, I don't think Skate can pull off a 10 meter wall. I'm pretty sure that Agil 9 and Jacks 6 would get him to a max vertical leap height of 6.6 meters. You're talking about essentially dead-jumping onto the roof of a three story building.
Most of the parkour stunts I see where they're going up the outside of buildings involves stopping at ledges, hooking onto pipes, and doing a bunch of other things. A single jump isn't parkour, it's Bunnyman. If this is a 34 foot tall sheer concrete wall in the middle of an urban area, your GM has problems, but a couple of EXEX rifle rounds or panther shells fired into that wall a few days ahead of time (to make nice big pockmarks/handholds for your ascent during the run) would help a lot.
What the original poster is talking about is building a character designed to do one thing and one thing only. Why would you want to do that?
If I were the wall-running-jumping adept's GM, I'd probably let them accomplish this by wall-running up the fence, jumping off that, jumping off the upper-side of a passing truck, and probably make it over the fence. Assuming he could make the jumps, of course.
For a movement adept concept to work, your GM really needs to be into it, though. It's too easy for the GM to say there isn't prop X or whatever in the area so you can't do a stunt, but if the GM works with you it could be a really sweet character.
For a movement adept concept to work, your GM really needs to be into it, though. It's too easy for the GM to say there isn't prop X or whatever in the area so you can't do a stunt, but if the GM works with you it could be a really sweet character.
Lampposts could work too.
True. True.
In fact, if I were the GM I would further handle this by considering the desired stunt (i.e. get over the fence) and the environment (lamp posts, streets, big flat pavement, etc) and assign a threshold based on difficulty. Utter lack of effort (or absurd strategy) would result in up to -2 DP to the check. A half-assed description of how he wants to do it is no modifier. A good, flavorful, (but not absurd) description earns up to +2 DP bonus to the check.
In fact, if I were the GM I would further handle this by considering the desired stunt (i.e. get over the fence) and the environment (lamp posts, streets, big flat pavement, etc) and assign a threshold based on difficulty. Utter lack of effort (or absurd strategy) would result in up to -2 DP to the check. A half-assed description of how he wants to do it is no modifier. A good, flavorful, (but not absurd) description earns up to +2 DP bonus to the check.
Play a dwarf. Have a cybered street sam troll toss you.
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What?
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What?
Am I mistaken though in beliving improved ability is capped by the skill raiting? Cause there's that 'modified skill raiting' cap of 1.5x skill level (Which max is 7) or is the adept skill boosting a pool bonus instead in which case it's uncapped?
Cause otherwise you cant add more than 3 dice anyway in the case of skills. WHich seems odd to me but I'm not entirely clear on that one which is why I ask.
Overall the concept of a Parkour adept is sound, but yeah your not easily ever going to manage to clear a 10m fence without something else to jump off of or find a landing. Both the wall running and gliding powers have technically 'unlimted' range -if- you can find even a tiny 'landing' spot in between runs.
So the only other suggestion would be to see if there's some sort of ledge you can prop up on on the wall. Something that bloody tall would likely have something ilke that if only to keep the wall togeather. Cause you certainly cant build a wall like that in a single piece and it would be under a great deal of stress. The ultimate combo though still seems to lay in an adept power/bioware mix
Worst case scenario, just use gecko gloves, long as it's not raining, instant landing spot.
Cause otherwise you cant add more than 3 dice anyway in the case of skills. WHich seems odd to me but I'm not entirely clear on that one which is why I ask.
Overall the concept of a Parkour adept is sound, but yeah your not easily ever going to manage to clear a 10m fence without something else to jump off of or find a landing. Both the wall running and gliding powers have technically 'unlimted' range -if- you can find even a tiny 'landing' spot in between runs.
So the only other suggestion would be to see if there's some sort of ledge you can prop up on on the wall. Something that bloody tall would likely have something ilke that if only to keep the wall togeather. Cause you certainly cant build a wall like that in a single piece and it would be under a great deal of stress. The ultimate combo though still seems to lay in an adept power/bioware mix
Worst case scenario, just use gecko gloves, long as it's not raining, instant landing spot.
| QUOTE (Kesslan) |
| Am I mistaken though in beliving improved ability is capped by the skill raiting? |
Nope, you are not mistaken.
Edit: for spelling errors etc
Right thats what I thought, wasnt 100% sure though. So yeah best you can pull off skill wise is 10 dice (For the skill itself) after rank 3 improved ability, 11 if you round up but i"m pretty sure the book says to round down.
Enhanced articulation and Synthecardium though can still give you a small added boost there too however.
The best deal I seem to be able to do with basic CG rules is the following, and it's very BP intensive (still assuming ork adept here)
Ork Adept:
Bod: 5
Agi: 5
Rea: 5
Str: 6
Cha: 3
Int: 3
Log: 3
Will: 3
Edge: 1
Magic: 6 (5)
Essence: 5.4
Athletics Group: 4
Bioware:
Synthacardium 3
Enhanced Articulation
Powers:
Improved Ability: Climbing 3
Improved Ability: Running 3
Improved Ability: Gymnastics 3
Wall Running
Great Leap 6
Freefall 1
This burns up 344 of 400 BPs
Alternatively you can boost each skill individually,
Climbing (Freehand) 4
Running (Urban) 6
Gymnastics (Jumping) 4
Which takes you up to 366 BP of 400 BP
Not exactly alot of BPs left for anything else.
Oh yeah thats the other thing, you can of course take Aptitude for eh, lets say running (10 BP) to add to that.
Right thats what I thought, wasnt 100% sure though. So yeah best you can pull off skill wise is 10 dice (For the skill itself) after rank 3 improved ability, 11 if you round up but i"m pretty sure the book says to round down.
Enhanced articulation and Synthecardium though can still give you a small added boost there too however.
The best deal I seem to be able to do with basic CG rules is the following, and it's very BP intensive (still assuming ork adept here)
Ork Adept:
Bod: 5
Agi: 5
Rea: 5
Str: 6
Cha: 3
Int: 3
Log: 3
Will: 3
Edge: 1
Magic: 6 (5)
Essence: 5.4
Athletics Group: 4
Bioware:
Synthacardium 3
Enhanced Articulation
Powers:
Improved Ability: Climbing 3
Improved Ability: Running 3
Improved Ability: Gymnastics 3
Wall Running
Great Leap 6
Freefall 1
This burns up 344 of 400 BPs
Alternatively you can boost each skill individually,
Climbing (Freehand) 4
Running (Urban) 6
Gymnastics (Jumping) 4
Which takes you up to 366 BP of 400 BP
Not exactly alot of BPs left for anything else.
Oh yeah thats the other thing, you can of course take Aptitude for eh, lets say running (10 BP) to add to that.
I am pretty sure that with the Athletics Group at 4 (or even the seperate Skills at that level), you could only have the Improved Abilities (Climbing, Running, Gymnastics) at level 2 (1.5 x current Skill level).
| QUOTE (Fortune @ Dec 20 2006, 03:11 AM) |
| I am pretty sure that with the Athletics Group at 4 (or even the seperate Skills at that level), you could only have the Improved Abilities (Climbing, Running, Gymnastics) at level 2 (1.5 x current Skill level). |
Ah yes, you would be correct. So then, I'd just shuffle the excess points into freefall so then you'd have:
With skill group:
Climbing, Gymnastics, Running 2
Freefall 4
Or with the skill groups seperately:
Climbing 2
Gymnastics 2
Running 3
Freefall 3
Also with the aptitude you could bump running (Urban) to 7 (9)
EDIT: I also just remembered, you cant have a power greater than your magic attribute, so drop greatleap to 5 and bump freefall an extra point.
they got rid of the wallrunning cheat you could use in SR3. despite the name of the power, the description in SOTA:64 actually allows you to move at less than a run, and there's no time limit. so if you decide to move at, say, a tenth of a meter per round, you can stay sideways for three minutes (assuming 6 magic). the SR4 power is much better, since it a) enforces wallrunning, b) allows adepts of greater ability to get more use out of it, and c) allows combining powers for greater effect (Imp Att: Str + Imp Ab: Running + Wallrunning = zomgz teh parkurz).
Except that boosting Strength beyond natrual maximum costs 2 powerpoints per stat point, meaning it will cost you 6 PP just to boost it to the maximum modified value. Your WAY better off just sacrificing a point of magic for bio/cyber in that case.
| QUOTE (Kesslan) |
| Except that boosting Strength beyond natrual maximum costs 2 powerpoints per stat point, meaning it will cost you 6 PP just to boost it to the maximum modified value. Your WAY better off just sacrificing a point of magic for bio/cyber in that case. |
True.
Well, I guess if Magic has to be able to do everything, at least technology can still be better at one or two things.
| QUOTE |
| Well, I guess if Magic has to be able to do everything, at least technology can still be better at one or two things. |
There are a number of things that cyber is better at - stat boosting and ip boosting in particular.
The SR4 adept should be carefully picking and choosing which things are bought with magic points, and which with cyber. Personally, my adepts get Muscle Toner and/or synaptic boosters fairly often. For 2 essence/magic, you can fit muscle toner 2, platelet factories, and synapatic boosters 2, and still have .44 points of bioware, or .88 points of cyber
My gunslinger adept has all of the above, plus internal air tank, cyber-ears and cyber-eyes.
Granted, it's 46 bp worth of gear, and 20 bp worth of magic. But it's a heck of a lot of bonus to get for it....
Compare that to +2 agi, or +1 reaction, +1 ip from either improved agility or improved reflexes?
Personally I lean more to the cyberlegs solution. You can buy it all quite cheap and have BP to spare since the only physical stat you can't get in cyber is reaction. You can get a athletics 4, 7 in Agility, hydraulic jacks 6, and synthacardium 3 for a total of 20 dice. Hell if you want you can grab an extra six by packing in gymnastics(jump) 6(+2), enhanced articulation, and reflex recorder. While in crazy land become a lucky human w/ 8 edge and watch your GM cry at 34 exploding dice!
Comparing the jacks to great leap you'll find that they increase your max jump at a greater rate. Though a nutter initiate might finally win the race when he gets to great leap 12.
Using my 20 dice example you can make 3m high jumps, 6m standing long jumps, and 12m running long jumps with ease. Plus my personal fav of leaping off tall buildings and walking away from that 22m dive without a scratch. DfA anybody?
The improvement costs on cyber-stats are insanely low and since your not an adept you can actually save the karma to buy up that athletics group. And is 10,000
(factoring in some markup) not a good price for agility 9?
Comparing the jacks to great leap you'll find that they increase your max jump at a greater rate. Though a nutter initiate might finally win the race when he gets to great leap 12.
Using my 20 dice example you can make 3m high jumps, 6m standing long jumps, and 12m running long jumps with ease. Plus my personal fav of leaping off tall buildings and walking away from that 22m dive without a scratch. DfA anybody?
The improvement costs on cyber-stats are insanely low and since your not an adept you can actually save the karma to buy up that athletics group. And is 10,000
(factoring in some markup) not a good price for agility 9?This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.