I do find the theory about Dunkelzahn running AZT interesting though. But if it were the case, there are a lot of things that seem off. Like why he went through all the trouble of everything in the Dragonheart Trilogy. If Dunk were running AZT, he should have seen all that coming long before a personal sacrifice would be required to stop it.

Besides, as far as we're aware, while Dunk possessed voting stock and a Board seat, that alone wouldn't give him enough sway over AZT to be considered the one in charge.

The Dragonheart was far more powerful than anything that could have been made at this period in the mana cycle. Producing it required the use of Earthdawn era Death Patterns. That is: characters in Earthdawn can make disgustingly powerful effects with their own death, and Mountainshadow is an Earthdawn character.

The Hoorors were coming in through a bridge to mana spikes that were already in place without any say-so by Aztechnology or Dunkelzahn.

---

Thereafter, Aztechnology began producing such a bridge deliberately under controlled circumstances. A copy of the ones left over from the Ghost Dance that was scientifically investigated during formation. All reports were handed over to the board, and by extension - Dunkelzahn.

Just before those bridges were completed, someone tipped off a bunch of Runners (see Harlequin's Back) who came in and killed everyone performing the actual bridge creation process. And then Dunkelzahn turns around and suddenly he knows exactly how the entire bridge system works and then uses the power released by his own death to destroy them all.

And then Dunkelzahn lives on after the fact using cybermancy - a magical technique that was also financed by Aztechnology at great expense. In fact, it was originally put together by the same group of blood mages that made the bridges in the first place (see Cybertechnology), with presumably their research data turned over to the same people.

So let's consider the timeline:

1. Oscuro is empowered by the Aztechnology Board to spend huge fat wads of nuyen to make a bridge to the horror lands and refine cybermancy into a working proposition.
2. Oscuro starts getting results, turns over research to the board, and requests more funding.
3. An interested party shoots Oscuro right in the face.
4. Dunkelzahn creates a powerful magical effect that stops the horror invasion in its tracks based on research into the horror bridge phenomenon that is remarkably similar to Oscuro's.
5. Dunkelzahn is able to survive this event because of cybermancy.

So... what's would Occam's Razor say is the easiest way to connect those dots?

-Frank

Lofwyr?

I'm not sure Occam's Razor would touch that either.

I mean, it's not a bad theory, but there are holes. We have no evidence or information indicating that Dunkelzahn had anymore influence over the Board than any other Board member. We know he had voting stock and a Board seat, but so do other people. So why would Dunkelzahn be the guiding force behind AZT in that case?

And sure, self-sacrifice allowed Dunkelzahn to create a powerful artifact, but if he was behind the mana bridge in the Dragonheart Trilogy, what's the rush to create the Dragonheart? It's understandable that there's a rush if he wasn't behind the bridge and the situation was really quite dire, but if the bridge was a controlled experiment intended to never be completed, then it certainly seems odd for a dragon to feel the need to sacrifice himself to create an artifact right then.

Besides, would a dragon who has been through previous ages really need to study a mana bridge? I can't imagine the effect of the Great Ghost Dance created more of a mana spike than a Dragon Ritual would. Which could very well explain why Dragon Rituals were banned by the Council of Barsaivian Dragons, but Dunk would have already been familiar with the process. After all, he went against that ban before with dire consequences for the city of Vivane.

And if it was Dunkelzahn's planned and intended goal to survive on through cybermancy, that process definitely wasn't perfect either. Understandable if he was in a rush, but again kinda strange if it was all predetermined.

Basically he killed him self, a littel setup contingency IIRC. I always assumed he was using the "dying legacy" sacrifice blood magic thingy from ED (In the Magic&Mysterires book) to empower a legendary magic item. Funny thing with that is that it specifically says that if someone dies this way, they cannot be brought back under any circumstances. and yet there's Lethe. Wonder if being a spirit counts?

'cause he carries one around in his over night bag whenever he goes out .... just in case....

Yeah, that little bomb bit was never really explained to my satisfaction. But hey, it's Shadowrun! They don't need to explain things! It's a conspiracy.

Gosh, I guess it must have been someone who didn't like Dunkelzahn.

If only there was someone like that in the Shadowrun world!

Seriously though, whoever dropped that nuke already dropped it. It's done with. FanPro will probably never explain who did it. Many people have run campaigns where it was revealed to be... whoever hey revealed it to be. Anspecific person or group now would undermine their campaigns. The important bits have been made into official metaplot, who was actually on the Grassy Knoll at the time can vary from game to game without the setting suffering for it.

-Frank

But if we didn't nit pick about the details, what would we have to talk about?

I really should try to track down all the old Shadowrun novels. Sometimes I don't understand what the hell you people are talking about, and I don't just mean the threads where you go all scientific and do mathmatical shit.

Oh shut up

I agree though, read them all. Except Nyx Smith.

Yeah, he only wrote crap.

LOL, if people pay attention or have read most of the source books then they would know what you were talking about even if they have not read the books. Be a student of the game!

I'm still waiting for Robocop to appear in detroit Ares has to have one or two cybermancy guys working for them. Maybe they have that big superimposed rouge robot patroling the streets of detroit to.

Before I puke on that one let me point out the skynet connection that robo cop has and the idea of robocop being the first terminator... I could go on with this but I wont i feel nauxious.

To get back on task Dunkie was blown up in the car with his driver. Would his driver be a drake and get absorbed in the dragon heart with him. Plus what about all those mages who went trhough the rift thinking they would come back out. Its like going through the looking glass.

Roxburogh is getting smacked arround by "Alice" my all time favorate ghost in the machine. But yet the Azzies just executed an adult dragon. So they are on their way to getting there swagger back.

Yeah Dunkie benifited from the blood magic research but someone else has to be able to connect the dots as well right? What about the Feathered serpant and eastern dragon? Would they notice that dunkie had this information? It would seem weird if they were unaware of what they had and didnt produce a lot of cyber zombies or other off-shoots of their blood magic research.

No, dirver just got blown up.

Latest news on Roxie is that he got peeved that the Azzie's couldn't get his errant wife back, so he split with them. No more Uni-Azzie

I'm down with putting Robocop into SR, that's been being built up for years. But the Robocop vs. Terminator comics definitely don't go into canon.

-Frank

Ares could have a new toy huh?

Well at least since SR3 if not earlier, it's allways been possible to build a full cyborg character thats effectively robocop. Using higher grade ware you can quite easily pull off cyberskull, torso, arms and legs.

And thats exactly what he is, Robocop at least by the stuff presented in the movies/TV series does still have internal organs beyond just his brain. But not much, which is really what you get with an SR full con borg too. Then just slap on a ton of ablative armor, smartlink 2, headjack, range finder, the leg pistol holster (Which I belive is in M&M if I recall, that or one of the SOTA books) and a few other toys and there you go.

Actually Robocop is a good deal cruder than an SR3 version. All the computer interfacing is done with a tiny plug and optical cable. His interfacing was done with much larger plugs and that spike in his hand.

plus any self-respecting sam would have init boosters. RoboCop's ablative armor was way, way higher than his Qui (or Bod, if you prefer).

Speaking of init boosters, robo cop definately doesnt have any. He's often the last one to start shooting for starters, and while his aim is incredibly accurate (SL + high firearms skills FTW!) he's bloody slow.

*tromp tromp tromp*

I mean geeze.. my dead grandmother moves faster than that!

...

That's what I get for checking on a thread by starting on the last page. Robocop!

Once you sort out everything about Robocop, nerps and (possibly) Dunkelzahn there's a decent thread here somewhere.

Just keep telling yourself that...

Robocop (Robozan? A fuzion!) for President!

LOL its ok to get side tracked. Crops really coulr have a robo cop the way things are going. Just think if the Star had a robo cop or a couple of them.

I propose they make his chassis from soylent chicken feathers.

You know, speaking of borgs and the Star. Who says they dont?

Just you wait till augmentation baby!

I hope they do have borgs and giant renegade robots to try and enforce the law. Although I do want the borgs to be super kick butt and rare. Runners should look at borgs as cannon hodder.

I would think Ares would be the one to put them out they have the perfect setup being in detroit and all.

Well the monitary cost involved in creating borgs obviously would keep the numbers down. I mean the star doesnt even pay for basic enhancement for it's police officers. It just offers 'discounts'