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Mortax
Okay, so I'm starting a new SR campain, and it may or may not go to the epoch level. The las one certainly did...

Anyway, one of the NPCs is a fixer for the group, who also happens to be a vampire (they don't know this yet.) At some point, I'd like to have him send them on a run to... borrow de Vries' Essence Focus.

Any info/referances on this guy? I know he is a vampire and a vampire hunter, but physical description, magical abbility, lifestyle?

Thanks chummers.
mfb
The Terminus Experiment. fun read, though it villainizes vampires too much.
Mortax
Isn't that the one with the vampire with cyberware?
Ancient History
No. I have a short section on him.
Cochise
QUOTE (Mortax)
Isn't that the one with the vampire with cyberware?

Among other things ...
tisoz
There is a write up on him in Prime Runners, page 14.
Mortax
Thanks. smile.gif

I'm ordering a copy of prime runners.

What grade initiate should I make him? Weve had peopleget up to grade.. 6 I think, though it may have been higher. (300 karma and you are a physad... whata ya gonna do?)

I'm glade de Vries isn't the one with cyberware, I'd have to kill him on principle.
tisoz
They list him as a grade 3 initiate in '55.
FlakJacket
If you want to make it really epoch level then tinker around with the stats a little and make him a physical magician. A vampire physical magician, fully loaded on blood, with the right adept powers and the shielding metamagic is an incredibly powerful guy to go up against. There was a thread about it earlier in year I remember.
SL James
QUOTE (Mortax)
Thanks. smile.gif

I'm ordering a copy of prime runners.

Don't.
Supercilious
QUOTE (SL James)
QUOTE (Mortax @ Dec 23 2006, 08:56 PM)
Thanks. smile.gif

I'm ordering a copy of prime runners.

Don't.

Amen to that, god that book sucked.
Mortax
QUOTE (FlakJacket)
If you want to make it really epoch level then tinker around with the stats a little and make him a physical magician. A vampire physical magician, fully loaded on blood, with the right adept powers and the shielding metamagic is an incredibly powerful guy to go up against. There was a thread about it earlier in year I remember.

Don't suppose it's archived somewhere?
NightmareX
QUOTE (SL James)
QUOTE (Mortax @ Dec 23 2006, 08:56 PM)
Thanks. smile.gif

I'm ordering a copy of prime runners.

Don't.

I dunno - I kinda liked PR [shrug]
Mortax
QUOTE (FlakJacket @ Dec 24 2006, 04:04 PM)
If you want to make it really epoch level then tinker around with the stats a little and make him a physical magician. A vampire physical magician, fully loaded on blood, with the right adept powers and the shielding metamagic is an incredibly powerful guy to go up against. There was a thread about it earlier in year I remember.

smile.gif Then I'd have to rename him Munchkin.

Kidding aside, my intention is not for them to kill him. They in fact, will be instructed NOT to kill him. I was actually going to make it a two part run, one to get the focus for Mortax to study, the other run to get it back, all with it being non traceable.

hmmm, wonder where e's living these days and what it is like......
Snow_Fox
Prime Runners was good IF, and it's a big if, you've got the cash to spare. it's pure role stuff with lots of details about what the big movers and shakers are supposed to be like. I wouldn't necessarily trust it for stats though.

Terminus Experiment was well. let's just say it left a lot to be desired. Like maybe 4 more re-writes.
Cybered vampire hoards who were cut down in swaths by lesbian strippers and then.... well, you get the idea.
SL James
QUOTE (Snow_Fox @ Dec 26 2006, 01:54 PM)
Prime Runners was good IF, and it's a big if, you've got the cash to spare. it's pure role stuff with lots of details about what the big movers and shakers are supposed to be like. I wouldn't necessarily trust it for stats though.

To be fair, they forgot the Skills for only one character.

But the bigger problem is that it's, "what the big movers and shakers are supposed to be like." However, none of the characters in the book mean shit. They were Sargent's & Gasciones's pet NPCs (Michael Sutherland being the most obvious) from their novels and sourcebooks (remember, these two were the authors of the London SB).

The only good thing in that book is the reference to the Spinrad scandal.
Snow_Fox
They would have been the pet NPC's of pretty much anyone who wrote the book. The risk is if osmeone thinks they are the only big players. I used them as examples of what the players can encounter
SL James
Perhaps, but I was around back when the name and summary were being banded about on the AOL forums when Dowd, Findley, et al. posted and used it as a de facto official forum. The characters in the book were most definitely not expected, and not wanted. In the last decade, they have AFAIK never been appreciated, nor wanted.

You know who people wanted in the book. What was given were stats for novel characters and fucking Rhonabwy.
Snow_Fox
The two that stick out in my memoriey were the reporter- Madeline something, and the sports agent, tres D ?
SL James
Plus the P.I., the trid reporter and his cameraman, the bounty hunter, the vampire hunter, the rigger/mechanic. the great dragon, the novelist, the decker, the pseudo-otaku, the talismonger, the cybertech designer and the cybertechnology "fixer," the football player, the contract specialist, the wannabe shadowrunner, the gangbanger chess master, the three troll criminals, the elven assassin, the ork serial killer, the ex-spy terrorist, the SR version of Carlos the Jackal - off the top of my head.

I will give credit where credit is due and admit that the people who wrote Shadows of Europe did a very good job of integrating the crap in it, and making it into something useful.

BTW, does anyone see any "Prime Runners" in that list?
Ophis
The elven assassin was cool as a concept, I had to restat him alot to make him as challenging as he should be... but hey He was a cool scary geezer.

Okay most of the rest was complete poo, Sutherland is the only one I've ever used (I think) and that was due to later Wuxing connections.

Oh and Sukie Redflower (the motor mouth mage) seems to have a Trid/sim series in 2070 it's advertised in Street Magic.
SL James
Shame it's not a bullet in her brain.
NightmareX
There we go again - I kinda liked Sukie. I did wish the book detailed folks like Wedge, Fastjack, Hatchetman, etc instead of some of the more riff raffy individuals detailed - like Rhonabwy wink.gif
SL James
The hatred for SR4 cannot compare. People were pissed.
Chrome Shadow
Think he went to Africa...
Snow_Fox
QUOTE (SL James)
The hatred for SR4 cannot compare. People were pissed.

wanna bet? I bought Prime Runners. I didn't buy SR4. that seems a comparison.
SL James
Hardly.
Snow_Fox
a fire cracker vs an H bomb is a comparrison. one is more noticible and gets more people's ire, but they can still be compared.
Wounded Ronin
QUOTE (Snow_Fox)
Prime Runners was good IF, and it's a big if, you've got the cash to spare. it's pure role stuff with lots of details about what the big movers and shakers are supposed to be like. I wouldn't necessarily trust it for stats though.

Terminus Experiment was well. let's just say it left a lot to be desired. Like maybe 4 more re-writes.
Cybered vampire hoards who were cut down in swaths by lesbian strippers and then.... well, you get the idea.

You have got to be pooping me! That was the BEST book precisely because it had lesbians. I mean, you can't have lesbians in your games, really, because the lesbians are always the greasy socially maladjusted players in your group, but the least you can do is read about them in a Shadowrun fictional setting.

The only problem is how none of the supposedly elite runners have seen enough vampire films to know that your friends who come back to you after a vampire experience are obviously vampires themselves. But besides for that the novel is flawless.
NightmareX
QUOTE (Snow_Fox)
QUOTE (SL James @ Dec 27 2006, 11:43 AM)
The hatred for SR4 cannot compare. People were pissed.

wanna bet? I bought Prime Runners. I didn't buy SR4. that seems a comparison.

And alot of people did buy SR4, and alot like SR4 - like myself. [shrug] One person's actions and opinion are indicative of nothing more than that's persons actions and opinion.
EVLTIM
I loved PR . I thought it was an awsome fluff book .
SL James
QUOTE (NightmareX @ Dec 29 2006, 03:49 AM)
QUOTE (Snow_Fox @ Dec 28 2006, 04:05 PM)
QUOTE (SL James @ Dec 27 2006, 11:43 AM)
The hatred for SR4 cannot compare. People were pissed.

wanna bet? I bought Prime Runners. I didn't buy SR4. that seems a comparison.

And alot of people did buy SR4, and alot like SR4 - like myself. [shrug] One person's actions and opinion are indicative of nothing more than that's persons actions and opinion.

Well, there's no point in reminiscing about peoples' reactions a decade ago, but as a matter of quality, I look back on it as appalling. But I bought it because the fluff got to me then. I never used the characters, and frankly it is one of many RPG book purchases I regret.

It's not even comparable to SR4 because there are so many things in a core rulebook that are at issue that don't come up with a book like PR. But I do consider the amount of fervor as a sign of relative interest. The fact that PR has very little is generally a sign, because unlike SR4 people don't debate it - they just almost universally criticize it. It is a book that one should not buy for the same reason the Germany SB is the worst-selling SR sourcebook ever: It sucks. It's just bad - bad writing, bad concept, bad art, bad execution, and horrible at incorporating itself into the storyline.

I don't even mind that they tried to expand the world of SR beyond Seattle to the eastern US and Europe, but it did so at the expense of being egregiously contrary to what the consumers wanted (which is actually my biggest gripe). It would have served the tone and atsmophere of the shadows if it actually did focus on, you know, shadowrunners like the ones wanted and expected (until people saw it at the stores. Then it was, "Who the fuck are these people and why should I spend $15 on this book?"). The Shadowrun setting and storyline is better for its portrayal of Hatchetman in Cybertechnology and Fastjack in many books - but those were just the characters SR players wanted to see in the book. Instead you get Martin de Vries and a bunch of non-runners who weren't even thought of long enough to be forgotten because Sargent and Gasicone decided to jerk off into the canon pool while they held court as the line developers during the interregnum between Tom Dowd and Mike Mulvihill.
Kesslan
QUOTE (SL James)
It is a book that one should not buy for the same reason the Germany SB is the worst-selling SR sourcebook ever: It sucks. It's just bad - bad writing, bad concept, bad art, bad execution, and horrible at incorporating itself into the storyline.

But...but....but... I liked the Germany source book! eek.gif

frown.gif frown.gif frown.gif frown.gif frown.gif

Maybe not all of it but I thought a good part of it was pretty neat. And personally I allways like having additional fluff that goes into real detail about various groups. Enough so that you -could- if you wanted to, for something different, NOT play the usual sort of game. Like actually not playing a shadowrunner in Shadowrun. Cause it's really the setting more than the shadowrunning I like when it really boils down to it.

Afterall proper fluff on a place/places/groups etc that can affect a runner ultimately helps, I feel, one properly portray those powers that be. Or at least do so better than what little information may be contained in a tiny paragraph. It helps set one group really appart from another. Or just helps set them appart a little bit. Like corp sec. Star for the most part come across as a buch of panzies in small groups or individually. Where as those specops guys in their milspec armor dont.

Or while relatively (to the runners) crapy/semi decent fighters, the Halloweeners stand out a fair bit from the Red Hot Nukes. Cause the former dress up like crazy, and the latter are totally nuts over anything that goes boom.

At the same time, while I havent read Primerunners myself, the title alone would to me suggest that it -should- contain something along the expectation of having... you know.. Big shot runners. Or at least the real big shots of the shadows. Not having that would be like... the DOTSW book having like.. 2 dragons, a small paragraph on drakes and 40 pages about paracritters.
Grinder
QUOTE (Kesslan)
QUOTE (SL James @ Dec 29 2006, 05:29 AM)
It is a book that one should not buy for the same reason the Germany SB is the worst-selling SR sourcebook ever: It sucks. It's just bad - bad writing, bad concept, bad art, bad execution, and horrible at incorporating itself into the storyline.

But...but....but... I liked the Germany source book! eek.gif

eek.gif

Why? I mean: Why????
Snow_Fox
the toruble SL is that I did like it for many of the reasons you disliked it. in a time when I found FASA was cuttingo ut all the character to the owrld and reducing SB's to just stats instead of fleshing out the world , which I loved, this book tried to do that.
BUT
notice you and I are arguing taste as to whether the book was something we wanted.

SR4 raised debate as to whether it was needed at all. and economic issues since it would invalidate all the other books you'd already bought and require you to start over again while heading to e-bay with a crate load of older stuff.
NightmareX
QUOTE (Snow_Fox)
SR4 raised debate as to whether it was needed at all. and economic issues since it would invalidate all the other books you'd already bought and require you to start over again while heading to e-bay with a crate load of older stuff.

Sell my old stuff?!?!?!?!? Never!!!!!
SL James
QUOTE (Snow_Fox @ Dec 29 2006, 08:53 AM)
the toruble SL

James, please.

QUOTE
notice you and I are arguing taste as to whether the book was something we wanted.

Clearly. I wanted shadowrunners.

QUOTE (Kesslan)
Maybe not all of it but I thought a good part of it was pretty neat.

Eh. I blame it as the beginning of the slide away from cyberpunk myself. For that crime, it is the devil to me.

QUOTE
And personally I allways like having additional fluff that goes into real detail about various groups. Enough so that you -could- if you wanted to, for something different, NOT play the usual sort of game. Like actually not playing a shadowrunner in Shadowrun. Cause it's really the setting more than the shadowrunning I like when it really boils down to it.

Sure. If it was a book about, and sold as, and titled in a way to reflect that - well, that's just swell. However, from a book about Prime Runners, you would expect a book about... well, Prime Runners.

QUOTE
Afterall proper fluff on a place/places/groups etc that can affect a runner ultimately helps, I feel, one properly portray those powers that be.

Absolutely. My focus has always been on setting and atmosphere. I'm not smart enough to dig through the mechanics - that's why I listen to people I know who do, and agree with them once I see where they're coming from. Fluff is hugely important, but sometimes... Sometimes it's better to know about fighting in Malaysia because Fed-Boeing is selling one side weapons instead of reading a chapter or subchapter about Malaysia in Shadows of Asia.
Kesslan
QUOTE (Grinder)
QUOTE (Kesslan @ Dec 29 2006, 12:14 PM)
QUOTE (SL James @ Dec 29 2006, 05:29 AM)
It is a book that one should not buy for the same reason the Germany SB is the worst-selling SR sourcebook ever: It sucks. It's just bad - bad writing, bad concept, bad art, bad execution, and horrible at incorporating itself into the storyline.

But...but....but... I liked the Germany source book! eek.gif

eek.gif

Why? I mean: Why????

Well.. cause I like a city in total anarchy.

The entire city is sort of like the Barrens. Except here and there you've actually got high class appartments and such who's security is granted specifically by force of arms against the 'lesser masses'.

It's kinda like Yak or Maf turff in the Z-zones etc. Or the warlord controled areas in Bug City. Besides, it makes for some good places to hide from folk who are after you. Cred rules all, no one gives a damn about ID. And while your there you can pick up pretty much anything you damn well want so long as your credstick balance holds out.

Course getting it home might be a problem, but then surely you can hire a relatively relaible smuggler to help with that.

I'm not saying I thought the book was perfect or anything but I certainly never found it eye bleeding horrible.

@James: And yes, I agree that a book title should at least in some way reflect it's contents. I was just stating that I at least like having all sorts of backstory fluff, character info etc. That doenst mean I disagree with the problem behind Prime Runners being really not about Runners but rather just a portfolio of high powered nobodies with a few actual notable people scattered within.

I would have expected a book like that to actually have people like Prime Runner, Chaptain Chaos, Fastjack, Dragonslayer, Bung and others one sees on a regular basis popping up.

Afterall if you happened to get into Dragonslaying for example, you might very well run into Dragonslayer in the flesh. Afterall, I seriously doubt that many people take up such a profession to begin with. And even if quite a few do, it's still going to be a small circle, given that it isnt one that leads to long life expectancies.
Snow_Fox
The fed-Boeing facility is being downscaled following the withdrawal of the Imperial Japanese forces in the region. They signed a new deal for a space in the PPC to build their top secret stuff.
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