Full Version: PC Fixer
How exactly would someone create a PC Fixer? I imagine lots of social skills, some appropriate knowledge skills, decent amount of currency, and contacts up the wazoo. I am asking because I am right now writing up a social adept with aspirations of taking a slice out of the local black market.
Contacts. Lots of contacts. I'd imagine they have much more contacts than most faces, as well as tons of social skills and matrix skills. Many are former shadow runners, so it wouldn't be inappropriate to be more well rounded either.
Why do you want to play a fixer though? That doesn't sound very exciting to me compared to an actual runner. Those former runners-turned-fixers became fixers because they wanted life to be a little slower and safer.
Why do you want to play a fixer though? That doesn't sound very exciting to me compared to an actual runner. Those former runners-turned-fixers became fixers because they wanted life to be a little slower and safer.
Well a few things to put down are in knowledge skills
Such as Fences, Smuggler hangouts.
Look at the sample Fixer from friends and foes, but your already on the right track your not confusing fixers, with fences, arms dealers and smugglers. A fixer is none of those things. But they know the people.
From the book.
"Think of the fixer as a combination employment agency, procurement firm, and
all-purpose fence: they earn their keep by what they know, who they know,"
Green runners don't have the contacts. During the course of the campaign i'm in my face has kept track of every single contact they've made. He's planing a head for his retirement.
One of his main fixer's was a runner teams face until SURGE turned her into a catgirl.
My advice to you is build up a face how you would face. Throw in some knowledge of Fence's and smuggling hangouts. It will quite awhile of running to build up all the contacts you need.
Such as Fences, Smuggler hangouts.
Look at the sample Fixer from friends and foes, but your already on the right track your not confusing fixers, with fences, arms dealers and smugglers. A fixer is none of those things. But they know the people.
From the book.
"Think of the fixer as a combination employment agency, procurement firm, and
all-purpose fence: they earn their keep by what they know, who they know,"
Green runners don't have the contacts. During the course of the campaign i'm in my face has kept track of every single contact they've made. He's planing a head for his retirement.
One of his main fixer's was a runner teams face until SURGE turned her into a catgirl.
My advice to you is build up a face how you would face. Throw in some knowledge of Fence's and smuggling hangouts. It will quite awhile of running to build up all the contacts you need.
A fixer is basically a face with a business plan.
Yeah, lots of contacts helps, but that's not the most important part. You'll get contacts later and as you do, you'll become a better and better fixer, but only as you use those contacts.
It's important to have social skills, especially Etiquette and Negotiation, along with lots of languages and dialects so that you can talk in all areas of society. Any legwork-related skills will help, too, most notably Data Search.
It's kind of a delicate game to build a fixer, because he's sort of a secondary runner. What I mean is, you want to go for subtely but effectiveness. Lots of cyberwear probably won't be your thing, so you'll want to compensate somehow. Make sure you're good with your guns.
I see a fixer has having top of the line equipment, though, but maybe that's just me. I can easily see a fixer getting the best pistol he can, awesome ammo, a smartlink, possibly some skillwires, basically any edge he can get but still be stuble (i.e., no heavy assault rifles, wired reflexes, or any of the obvious street-sam upgrades). See if you can talk to your GM about maybe using one or two of your contacts during chargen to buy higher availability equipment, for the compromise of not getting the more obvious upgrade packages.
Basically, lots of contacts and knowledge skills help, but be sure you have lots of ideas on how to use them. Ultimately, that's going to make the difference.
| QUOTE (Jack Kain @ Jan 21 2007, 09:51 PM) |
| From the book. "Think of the fixer as a combination employment agency, procurement firm, and all-purpose fence: they earn their keep by what they know, who they know," |
They forgot the most important part.
A fixer knows when to keep their fucking mouth shut.
There is a PC fixer. It's called the Face.
Yeah, just make a normal face.
Then in the course of the campaign try to develop business relations with your contacts, keep an eye out for people who can give you useful info and to people who would pay for that info.
And by the time you are ready to retire, you are a fixer.
But you can't play a fixer right from the start with 400 BP. You'd need to blow 100 to 150 BP on contact at the very least to be credible as a fixer. And then with the remaining BP all you can design is a bum. And people will inevitably wonder how the hell such talentless individual could have made so many useful connections? The only answer will be a silly background that translate into : "Chargen rules allowed it!"
But on the other hand, while playing, you can start making contact like crazy and for free. Assuming you are not a useless bum, of course!
Then in the course of the campaign try to develop business relations with your contacts, keep an eye out for people who can give you useful info and to people who would pay for that info.
And by the time you are ready to retire, you are a fixer.
But you can't play a fixer right from the start with 400 BP. You'd need to blow 100 to 150 BP on contact at the very least to be credible as a fixer. And then with the remaining BP all you can design is a bum. And people will inevitably wonder how the hell such talentless individual could have made so many useful connections? The only answer will be a silly background that translate into : "Chargen rules allowed it!"
But on the other hand, while playing, you can start making contact like crazy and for free. Assuming you are not a useless bum, of course!
A Fixer is just a prestiege class that most Faces want to join.
If you're GM allows it, maybe you can get an organization or two as a contact. Or just a ubiquitious "Network", just so that you can say you're contacting your network of informants and have rules for it (in the form of connection). I don't think these networks/organizations would have very much loyalty though, probably 1 or 2.
This can get unbalanced pretty quick, though, so discuss it with your GM to see if you can get on the same page... on the other hand... you'd expect the fixer to be contacting his network every session... and at the most the connection rating will be 6, so it's not totally out of balance.
Otherwise, make extensive use of the Data Search, Negotiation, and Intimidation skills but explain them in a way that sounds fixer-y, like "Yeah, he owed me a favor" or "I know this guy, who knew this guy, who got me this info" for a Data Search. In this case your Data Search wouldn't represent so much going through the Matrix-equivalent of search engines and such, but rather the Matrix-equivalent of chat-rooms and forums.
This can get unbalanced pretty quick, though, so discuss it with your GM to see if you can get on the same page... on the other hand... you'd expect the fixer to be contacting his network every session... and at the most the connection rating will be 6, so it's not totally out of balance.
Otherwise, make extensive use of the Data Search, Negotiation, and Intimidation skills but explain them in a way that sounds fixer-y, like "Yeah, he owed me a favor" or "I know this guy, who knew this guy, who got me this info" for a Data Search. In this case your Data Search wouldn't represent so much going through the Matrix-equivalent of search engines and such, but rather the Matrix-equivalent of chat-rooms and forums.
| QUOTE (Charon) |
| Yeah, just make a normal face. Then in the course of the campaign try to develop business relations with your contacts, keep an eye out for people who can give you useful info and to people who would pay for that info. And by the time you are ready to retire, you are a fixer. But you can't play a fixer right from the start with 400 BP. You'd need to blow 100 to 150 BP on contact at the very least to be credible as a fixer. And then with the remaining BP all you can design is a bum. And people will inevitably wonder how the hell such talentless individual could have made so many useful connections? The only answer will be a silly background that translate into : "Chargen rules allowed it!" But on the other hand, while playing, you can start making contact like crazy and for free. Assuming you are not a useless bum, of course! |
I doubt it - a credible fixer can be made with about 40-70 BPs spent on his contacts. With each contact at 1/3(or 1/6), he can reach each contact regularly and have 3(or 6) more dice for related tests.
The main problem with playing a fixer or any other legwork/info PC is this: How much of the plot is the GM comfortable in giving away? How much of legwork should be roleplay and rollplay? Taken to the extreme, fixers can wield tremendous power and influence. In SR3, a diviner-otaku with Info Sortilage was a unholy metaplot nightmare. What does he know? What doesn't he know would be a better question. In SR4, a Mystic Adept Face with Divining, Data Search and a network of high Loyalty contacts (because the fixer has enough contacts that low Connection contacts are not a problem) can become a similar headache. An NPC fixer with high Connection is balanced by being not easily available, a PC fixer with many contacts on the other hand is available anytime the player is playing.
I dont let players play fixers as a general character concept. If they want to do some hiring of team(s) for a job to subcontract work that is fine. or if they want to pawn work off onto another group that is fine or if they need a distraction that is fine. But I am not going to come up with dozens of runner teams for them to play Johnson or fixer to.
I have someone now that is basically working their way to being a fixer (as their retirement from running).
to each his own...
dog
I have someone now that is basically working their way to being a fixer (as their retirement from running).
to each his own...
dog
Yeah, being a fixer is most interesting as a character goal, rather than a playable concept. I've got a guy in my group who's heading that direction. It's neat. It gives me something to hook onto with my plots. I'm willing to bet he'd take some serious risks if he thought it could get him some useful contacts.
I love the idea of someone whose job requires them to treat disposable people, like runners, like shit... being on a shadowrunning team.
| QUOTE (toturi) |
| I doubt it - a credible fixer can be made with about 40-70 BPs spent on his contacts. With each contact at 1/3(or 1/6), he can reach each contact regularly and have 3(or 6) more dice for related tests. |
Oh only to 40-70 BP, thats nothing. A small drop in the bucket.
If you converted my face's contacts into BP. He'd have 66 BP in contacts. He started with 10. And has been on 8 shadowrun's (Parliament of Thieves through Chasing the Dragon). Plus four or so Parahunts.
Alot can depend on the DM. But spending that kind of BP on contacts just isn't worth it.
| QUOTE (Jack Kain @ Jan 24 2007, 10:32 AM) | ||
Oh only to 40-70 BP, thats nothing. A small drop in the bucket. If you converted my face's contacts into BP. He'd have 66 BP in contacts. He started with 10. And has been on 8 shadowrun's (Parliament of Thieves through Chasing the Dragon). Plus four or so Parahunts. Alot can depend on the DM. But spending that kind of BP on contacts just isn't worth it. |
Why won't it be worth it?
As a fixer, you would not give a damn how Connected your contact is. What you really want is Loyalty and for the most part Loyalty is damned hard to come by. Notice that actually for a fixer the lower the Connection stat the better, it ensures that the fixer can contact the guy. Using SRM contacts as baseline, acquired contacts are not very useful, they tend to have Connection 3 and Loyalty 1, with some variables. So each new contact is worth 4BPs. Remember 3/1 costs as much as 1/3, but 1/3 is far more effective(to a fixer) than 3/1. IMO, a 1/3 Contact for a fixer is worth more than a 3/3 Contact. So you got a new 3/1 Contact, congratulations, you got yourself a RP opportunity and you got to work hard to upgrade that Loyalty.
So we are back to chargen efficiency. Is it more efficient to buy the Contacts at chargen(and at the C/L stats you want) or wait to acquire them during play? Again taking SRMs as an example, acquisition during play requires that the writer/GM giving the PC that Contact and not necessarily at the C/L levels you want. The Face in my games would rather use one of his chargen contacts than anyone I have given him(per the instructions in the SRMs) because they are more reliable(lower Connection, so he can always get them) and more effective(higher Loyalty).
Spending 40-70 BP on Contacts (for a Face/Fixer) is definitely worth it.
First off that availibility check is optional and not a standard rule. Its in the DM's hand.
Second, you have no idea what connection means do you? Or does your group not follow the connection table.
A Connection 1 contact
Knows very few people and has practically no social influence. Many are useful only for
their Knowledge skills. Examples: squatter, manual laborer, academic graduate assistant.
A connection 1 contact can offer little in the way of info, gear or much of anything.
Connection 3
Meets people on a regular basis and has some personal pull. Examples: beat cop, private
investigator, street doc, corporate secretary, club owner, street-level fixer or fence.
A real skilled Face should be a smooth enougth talker that loyality should be a minor matter. A fixer lives and dies by his contacts. If all he has are a bunch of squatters and laborer's he cant' do crap. A skilled face should be able to aquire what a connection 1 contact could on thier own skills.
| QUOTE (toturi @ Jan 23 2007, 10:05 PM) |
| As a fixer, you would not give a damn how Connected your contact is. What you really want is Loyalty and for the most part Loyalty is damned hard to come by. Notice that actually for a fixer the lower the Connection stat the better, it ensures that the fixer can contact the guy. Using SRM contacts as baseline, acquired contacts are not very useful, they tend to have Connection 3 and Loyalty 1, with some variables. So each new contact is worth 4BPs. Remember 3/1 costs as much as 1/3, but 1/3 is far more effective(to a fixer) than 3/1. IMO, a 1/3 Contact for a fixer is worth more than a 3/3 Contact. So you got a new 3/1 Contact, congratulations, you got yourself a RP opportunity and you got to work hard to upgrade that Loyalty. |
toturi,
While I won't directly say I agree with Jack Kain (because he's quoting examples as rules), I do think you need to update yourself on the concept and mechanics behind Connection. Connection is your contact's ability to do stuff; Loyalty is his willingness and reliability to help you when you call on him. With low loyalty, it will be hard to convince him to do anything. But as much as he would like to, with Connection 1 he really won't be very useful to you.
Actually I thought I was quoting the connection table. I figured if he was following the availibilty check rule he should at least follow the connection table.
edit: removed
I bow out.
I bow out.
I was using the Availibility rules, yes. And the Connection table shows examples of who has what connections. But must a squatter have only Connection 1? If a player decides that his PC should have a Squatter contact with Connections 6 Loyalty 1, I will accept that as part of the chargen process. This is a house rule, but one that I think is widely accepted(like Mentor spirits that are not explicitly mentioned in some Traditions are still allowed, like how you can have a Dragonslayer Druid when the Dragonslayer Mentor isn't mentioned in the Druid tradition and related "religion" write-up in Street Magic). My own GM NPC contacts follow the canon ratings, but I generally allow PC contacts to be whatever ratings the player chooses.
Yes, a GM may think that for the purposes of the campaign/mission, it is better that the PC has access to a certain NPC contact. But he can also decide to let the dice do the talking. Personally, my players like to consider the most probable worst case scenario.
Yes, for some tests, the higher the Connection, the better. But most of the time, it means that the NPC is using his skill/stat + his Connection to find someone who can do something he cannot. But why rely on someone else to find someone who can do the thing you want when you as a fixer/face should go to the source? And when going directly to the source, the important stat is not Connection(in fact, I think that if the GM decides to let the dice fall as they may, high Connection is bad), but Loyalty. There is no need to call Bob, who will call Dick, when as a fixer you can call Dick directly. There is no need to call John of the gunshop to get your PAC when you could call Jim, his supplier.
I agree that a low Connection contact can do less than what a higher Connection contact can, but for some of the tests, Connection isn't going to matter, since you will call the guy who knows.
Yes, a GM may think that for the purposes of the campaign/mission, it is better that the PC has access to a certain NPC contact. But he can also decide to let the dice do the talking. Personally, my players like to consider the most probable worst case scenario.
Yes, for some tests, the higher the Connection, the better. But most of the time, it means that the NPC is using his skill/stat + his Connection to find someone who can do something he cannot. But why rely on someone else to find someone who can do the thing you want when you as a fixer/face should go to the source? And when going directly to the source, the important stat is not Connection(in fact, I think that if the GM decides to let the dice fall as they may, high Connection is bad), but Loyalty. There is no need to call Bob, who will call Dick, when as a fixer you can call Dick directly. There is no need to call John of the gunshop to get your PAC when you could call Jim, his supplier.
I agree that a low Connection contact can do less than what a higher Connection contact can, but for some of the tests, Connection isn't going to matter, since you will call the guy who knows.
| QUOTE (Jack Kain @ Jan 23 2007, 11:05 PM) |
| A Connection 1 contact Knows very few people and has practically no social influence. Many are useful only for their Knowledge skills. Examples: squatter, manual laborer, academic graduate assistant. A connection 1 contact can offer little in the way of info, gear or much of anything. |
I've actually gotta back Toturi on this one. Ammazing though this statement must be (Afterall we've disagreed/debated a great deal on a number of issues)
If at least your going by the 'letter of the rule' for contacts. Connections. Which to me means exactly what it says. Their 'connections to others'. Is irrelevant compared to what the NPC actually knows.
Ok so what if the guy doesnt know 10 other people. That doesnt mean he isnt a closet expert in the field of chemistry or explosives, or bioengineering.
It's like having a conspiracy theorist contact. Most of his knowledge is useless. But what if you just -happened- to trip over something. And it soudns so horribly machevellian you have a hard time beliving it. And you've got zero leads. Hrmm.. well.. give him a shot. Maybe him and his likely very limited circle can actually dig up something by their mad ravings. Stuff everyone else ignored because they dont see 40 monsters and plots and twists in every little stupid thing that happens.
You might well get a red herring. But maybe... just maybe, given the fact that the guy is basically a -specialist- in plots. He'll come up with something that leads you to the truth however strange that truth may be.
Now personally I'd argue if the guy was a 'real' professional he'd probably at least rate connection 2 or 3. Afterall if your regularly working in a field you -normally- have a fair bit of contact with other 'professionals' in that field. But you dont necessarily.
Afterall a Bum on the street might not have alot of friends. But in a pinch he can easily show you how to survive when your dos gets blown up and you cant touch yoru bank accounts because some AAA is out for your head. He can show you areas of the city only folk who LIVE on the street even know about because other people just ignore them.
He might not be good for much else. But that doesnt mean he isnt good at what he does to. And that my friends is survial when one has no money at all. He might not be entirely sane either. But because he's your 'best buddy' level 6 loyalty contact he'll hang with you, chat with you. Possibly drive you further down the path of insantiy as well. But he'll still show you all the nifty tricks you need to know to survive in the environment he knows. One he's been living in for 10, 20, 40+ years.
It seems to me that it's only common sense that certain type of contact must have minimum ratings while others can't have a very high ones.
Take a talismonger. Awfully tempting to take him with a connection 1 / loyalty X. It's cheaper!
But that implies that this talismonger is virtually your personal supplier and does almost nothing else but keep you stocked in magcial goodies.
Logically a normal talismonger knows several mages ; his customers. And of course he has his suppliers. And most likely some contacts with at least one criminal syndicatem the one who controls the smugling routes used by his suppliers. Not quite connection 1, you see? I know it's more expensive but a talismonger is basically a fixer for the arcane and he knows too many useful people to justify him being connection 1. Connection 1 would be a shopkeeper selling only legal magical product.
Meanwhile you could argue a squatter contact may have more than connection 1. If he's popular amongst his crowd, he could know a lot of transients and have a keen ear for the word on the street. But no matter how many people he knows, not many of them will useful and even quantity can't overcome lack of quality and so giving him a connection rating 6 is just a joke.
In theory you can give any type of contact any rating you want to, but in practice some situation would sretch credulity too much and detract from the setting.
Take a talismonger. Awfully tempting to take him with a connection 1 / loyalty X. It's cheaper!
But that implies that this talismonger is virtually your personal supplier and does almost nothing else but keep you stocked in magcial goodies.
Logically a normal talismonger knows several mages ; his customers. And of course he has his suppliers. And most likely some contacts with at least one criminal syndicatem the one who controls the smugling routes used by his suppliers. Not quite connection 1, you see? I know it's more expensive but a talismonger is basically a fixer for the arcane and he knows too many useful people to justify him being connection 1. Connection 1 would be a shopkeeper selling only legal magical product.
Meanwhile you could argue a squatter contact may have more than connection 1. If he's popular amongst his crowd, he could know a lot of transients and have a keen ear for the word on the street. But no matter how many people he knows, not many of them will useful and even quantity can't overcome lack of quality and so giving him a connection rating 6 is just a joke.
In theory you can give any type of contact any rating you want to, but in practice some situation would sretch credulity too much and detract from the setting.
A connection 6 squatter? What does he sleep in the attic of a Mafia don's favorite restaurant?
Or is he really a great dragon who likes to spend his time sleeping under a freeway overpass.
A squatter may be an example of a connection one contact but this would be the rule if there really are any rules for contacts.
"Knows very few people and has practically no social influence."
How is it these connection 1 contacts just happen to know the person you need to talk to. If your GM designs the adventures so at least one of the connection 1 contacts happens to be closest related in some way to the target then it works.
What are the chances the connection 1 contact is going to know the guy or the thing the PC needs access to to. Low, thats why they have a low connection.
What if you don't know Dick? What if out of the 20 million people in the city he's not on your list of 30 connection 1 contacts.
OH and your little thing here.
"There is no need to call John of the gunshop to get your PAC when you could call Jim, his supplier."
Jim who supplys the PAC to John would have a good connection rating being an arms dealer who supplys gunshopts. If he didn't have a good connection he wouldn't be in business. Thats like saying the head of R&D at Aries has a lower connection then the guy at the aries manufactoring plant.
I AM NOT disregarding connection 1 contacts. What I'm saying is if you want to be more then a sub street-level fixer. You need more then that. You need some good 3/3 contacts. You can increase loyality by being a good customer and doing favors. However you can't increase your contacts connection.
What toturi here is saying is you only need dozens of connection 1 contacts to get by. Thats bull, Low connect contacts know few people and have little pull.
So they are required to be close to the subject. And just about anything can come up for a run.
If you ignore all the guide lines for contacts then yes it works. Because you can have the connection 1 loyalty 5, professional dog walker who happens to walk the dog of Mafia Don, Tommy.
Or is he really a great dragon who likes to spend his time sleeping under a freeway overpass.
A squatter may be an example of a connection one contact but this would be the rule if there really are any rules for contacts.
"Knows very few people and has practically no social influence."
How is it these connection 1 contacts just happen to know the person you need to talk to. If your GM designs the adventures so at least one of the connection 1 contacts happens to be closest related in some way to the target then it works.
What are the chances the connection 1 contact is going to know the guy or the thing the PC needs access to to. Low, thats why they have a low connection.
What if you don't know Dick? What if out of the 20 million people in the city he's not on your list of 30 connection 1 contacts.
OH and your little thing here.
"There is no need to call John of the gunshop to get your PAC when you could call Jim, his supplier."
Jim who supplys the PAC to John would have a good connection rating being an arms dealer who supplys gunshopts. If he didn't have a good connection he wouldn't be in business. Thats like saying the head of R&D at Aries has a lower connection then the guy at the aries manufactoring plant.
I AM NOT disregarding connection 1 contacts. What I'm saying is if you want to be more then a sub street-level fixer. You need more then that. You need some good 3/3 contacts. You can increase loyality by being a good customer and doing favors. However you can't increase your contacts connection.
What toturi here is saying is you only need dozens of connection 1 contacts to get by. Thats bull, Low connect contacts know few people and have little pull.
So they are required to be close to the subject. And just about anything can come up for a run.
If you ignore all the guide lines for contacts then yes it works. Because you can have the connection 1 loyalty 5, professional dog walker who happens to walk the dog of Mafia Don, Tommy.
Indeed. Which is why I make the argument that any 'normal professional' should have at least connection 2 or 3 unless their just starting out in the field.
But that doesnt necessarily mean they arnt useful or dont know alot of stuff. The recluse would very much be a connections 1. He may be one of the top minds in the field even. Though in that case I'd make em very specialized. It's just your one of the only people he actually talks to for any reason.
Maybe you were friends in school or something. I've actualy got a friend who's sorta like that IRL. He's Scitzophrenic (I'm sure i've mispelled that). Doesnt talk to many people. It's hard getting anything out of him. He's finally at the point again where you can have a sort of conversation with him. He used to whisper everything, now he actually says it in a normal tone of voice. He's quite smart, artistically tallented.
But he hardly knows anyone, he's horribly shy etc. He wasnt ALLWAYS that way. He used to be a perfectly normal kid. But beyond a few immediate friends and family he doesnt really talk to anyone.
I still get a X-mas card from him every year on the dot though, even though we just about never talk to one another.
Another guy I got to know on the street used to be a university professor. Really smart guy. You could have some really great conversations with him. Though... again he had alot of mental issues, totally kept to himself most of the time. The last I saw of him he was still wearing the exact same suit he did every day. Kept it clean as he could. It was obvious he had a nervous breakdown and had no real friends or family to look after him.
But he's still as smart and still knows just as much as he ever did about.. well what ever the heck it was he used to teach. Thats another case where you coudl have a connection 1 contact thats still quite useful. Limited use perhaps, for very specific kinds of information. But you could also, through careful cultivation get a high loyalty raiting out of em.
And it may well be simply becuase you were one of the only or very few people who were ever actually nice to them. This guy in particular used to allways be made fun of and picked on by the others in the shelter. But if you were nice to him and workd him out of his shell he'd talk your ear off. Simply because you were one of the only people who seemed to care.
But that doesnt necessarily mean they arnt useful or dont know alot of stuff. The recluse would very much be a connections 1. He may be one of the top minds in the field even. Though in that case I'd make em very specialized. It's just your one of the only people he actually talks to for any reason.
Maybe you were friends in school or something. I've actualy got a friend who's sorta like that IRL. He's Scitzophrenic (I'm sure i've mispelled that). Doesnt talk to many people. It's hard getting anything out of him. He's finally at the point again where you can have a sort of conversation with him. He used to whisper everything, now he actually says it in a normal tone of voice. He's quite smart, artistically tallented.
But he hardly knows anyone, he's horribly shy etc. He wasnt ALLWAYS that way. He used to be a perfectly normal kid. But beyond a few immediate friends and family he doesnt really talk to anyone.
I still get a X-mas card from him every year on the dot though, even though we just about never talk to one another.
Another guy I got to know on the street used to be a university professor. Really smart guy. You could have some really great conversations with him. Though... again he had alot of mental issues, totally kept to himself most of the time. The last I saw of him he was still wearing the exact same suit he did every day. Kept it clean as he could. It was obvious he had a nervous breakdown and had no real friends or family to look after him.
But he's still as smart and still knows just as much as he ever did about.. well what ever the heck it was he used to teach. Thats another case where you coudl have a connection 1 contact thats still quite useful. Limited use perhaps, for very specific kinds of information. But you could also, through careful cultivation get a high loyalty raiting out of em.
And it may well be simply becuase you were one of the only or very few people who were ever actually nice to them. This guy in particular used to allways be made fun of and picked on by the others in the shelter. But if you were nice to him and workd him out of his shell he'd talk your ear off. Simply because you were one of the only people who seemed to care.
A Connection 1 anybody "knows very few people and has practically no social influence."
These Connection 1 buggers do not know the people you need to call. These Connection 1 buggers ARE the people you as the fixer know you need to call.
You know that you will need someone to supply you with guns and ammo, so you go to the source, that Amerind gunsmith. You know you will need someone to help fix your car, you go to that mechanic that works out of that junkyard. You know that blogger guy that tracks Triad activities. You know that conspiracy theory guy who tracks megacorporate affairs. You know that ivory tower professor who knows his magical theory. These people may have very limited social circles hence their low Connection, but it doesn't matter that they don't know many people, you know them. Instead of knowing someone who knows someone else, you know that someone else. You short circuit the chain, cut out the middlemen and go to the primary.
These Connection 1 buggers do not know the people you need to call. These Connection 1 buggers ARE the people you as the fixer know you need to call.
You know that you will need someone to supply you with guns and ammo, so you go to the source, that Amerind gunsmith. You know you will need someone to help fix your car, you go to that mechanic that works out of that junkyard. You know that blogger guy that tracks Triad activities. You know that conspiracy theory guy who tracks megacorporate affairs. You know that ivory tower professor who knows his magical theory. These people may have very limited social circles hence their low Connection, but it doesn't matter that they don't know many people, you know them. Instead of knowing someone who knows someone else, you know that someone else. You short circuit the chain, cut out the middlemen and go to the primary.
| QUOTE (toturi @ Jan 24 2007, 12:54 AM) |
| A Connection 1 anybody "knows very few people and has practically no social influence." These Connection 1 buggers do not know the people you need to call. These Connection 1 buggers ARE the people you as the fixer know you need to call. |
What if you don't know the connection 1 guy you need to call. What then?
Your examples assume the fixer has the exact guy they team need to talk to on his list. And I find that highly unlikly.
| QUOTE (Jack Kain) |
| How is it these connection 1 contacts just happen to know the person you need to talk to. If your GM designs the adventures so at least one of the connection 1 contacts happens to be closest related in some way to the target then it works. What are the chances the connection 1 contact is going to know the guy or the thing the PC needs access to to. Low, thats why they have a low connection. What if you don't know Dick? What if out of the 20 million people in the city he's not on your list of 30 connection 1 contacts. What toturi here is saying is you only need dozens of connection 1 contacts to get by. Thats bull. |
How is it you happen to know alot of connection 3 guys? Same way you know alot of connection 1 people. You network, you hunt them out. Maybe you just happen to run into them in a coffee shop some day.
Like you go to the same coffee shop every day for several years. And for 2+ years, eveyr day you see this same guy whos a little quirky. Maybe one day you finally decide to talk to him and hit it off for some reason. Your natural charisma perhaps. You just manage to say the right things perhaps.
Next thing you know you find out he does thus and so for a very limited clientel base. Not a streatch to say at that point "Well... I do know a guy who's looking for that kinda thing. He's willing to pay alot. Think you could help me out pal?"
In essence to anyone else they'd be, because of YOU a connection 2+. Take you out of the loop though and their only connection 1 or connection 2.
And if you dont know Dick? Then your RP about, get the contacts to get the contacts. A bunch of level 1 contacts can be very useful. They wont allways be. And i definately agree you should take more than a horde of connection 1's. But that doenst mean that say.. those 5 connection 1 NPCs on your contact list wont some day come up with some stuff you need, or might even save your life.
I mean any big shot fixer knows hundreds of people. And even then they might not quite know say.. a specialist in rocketry.
Any PC fixer however, unless your playing some super high level game. IS NOT going to be anything more than a low to at best mid level fixer. If they were the total balance of yoru game goes right out the window. That doesnt mean they wont be useful for getting certain things done however. BUt if your playing a 'regular' game the last thing your PC fixer in that group is going to be is 'ultra connected'. Becasue if he is, then your not playing a 'regular' game anymore. Because at that level he's got the connections for anything and everything pretty much.
| QUOTE (Jack Kain @ Jan 24 2007, 01:56 AM) | ||
What if you don't know the connection 1 guy you need to call. What then? Your examples assume the fixer has the exact guy they team need to talk to on his list. And I find that highly unlikly. |
THen you dont know him do you? You've gotta spend the time to track him down.
Its like saying just becuase you have a connection 3 contact that he will automaticlaly be the contact you need to contact some other guy. Just cause he's a connection 3 doesnt mean he knows George the specialist in rifles. It all depends on what that connection 3 raiting is applied to.
I mean if your a chemist your not too likely to know alot of folk who are specialists in firearms unless there's some good reason they are (LIke maybe they work for Alamos 20K but thats again an exception)
EDIT: To add to this. it's like saying a connection 6 contact knows EVERYONE you will ever need to have a connection with. Which is blatantly untrue. They know ALOT of people. Who also know alto of people. But that STILL doesnt mean that just because you have that connection 6 contact that they can help you.
Kess
you do know toturi was talking about spending 40 to 70 BP on contacts right?
And he's totally disregarding networking. He talks about having so many low connection contacts you can just go the direct route.
I never question how you know all those connection 3 guys. I questions how a bunch of connection 1 guys happend to be so convientely connected.
you do know toturi was talking about spending 40 to 70 BP on contacts right?
And he's totally disregarding networking. He talks about having so many low connection contacts you can just go the direct route.
I never question how you know all those connection 3 guys. I questions how a bunch of connection 1 guys happend to be so convientely connected.
Their so convinently connected because you are that connection. Is it all that likely? Perhaps not.
But thats really the GMs call. Personally I'm not so likely to allow some one who bought up 20 connection 1 contacts that are all specialisits. But its still potentially possible that if their explanation as to just how in the HELL they got to know so many reclusive level 1 contacts that they now have a small army of em. Then.. well maybe I would let it go.
That doesnt mean however that they'll be as useful if say they needed to track down some one who ISNT on their contact list. Som eone with 10 connection 3 contacts is a hell of alot more likley to be able to deliver in a situation like that than some one with 10 connection 1 contacts. Infact I'd say the odds are heavily against the latter.
That doesnt mean one shouldnt allow that sort of situation to happen. I've seen much wierder stuff happen IRL.
I also wouldnt say he's totally disregarding networking. Think about it for a moment. Alot of the low to mid level fixers would only relaly know alot of specific folk. Afterall your 'average' fixer is a connection 3 or so contact.
Well obviously if thats the case and you ARE the average fixer. You dont really know -that- many well connected people do you? You instead probably know quite a few not really well connected folk. IE folk with connection 1 or 2.
A Fixer is made or broken purely by the folk he knows. And there's all sorts of reasons why contact X may only be connection 1 or 2. Even a corp using the fixer could count as connection 1 or 2 Why? Because the stuff is so black none of the corp J's talk to one another. Most of probably dont know who the others are. They might not even be sure that their not the only one.
At the same time they want the ultimate cutouts. They wont extend you many favours. They wont help you out alot. They only want to know you because of you knowing other people who know other people and worst case scenario. They either quit talking to you or geek you and then and ONLY then do they go looking for a replacement fixer for the fixer for the fixer.
Hell in such a scenario the cutout that gets geeked might not even be you, but your corporat J contact. Afterall he knwos more of the deep dark secrets than you do. And jsut because his rolodex had your number in it, his replacement gives you a ring and feels you out.
But thats really the GMs call. Personally I'm not so likely to allow some one who bought up 20 connection 1 contacts that are all specialisits. But its still potentially possible that if their explanation as to just how in the HELL they got to know so many reclusive level 1 contacts that they now have a small army of em. Then.. well maybe I would let it go.
That doesnt mean however that they'll be as useful if say they needed to track down some one who ISNT on their contact list. Som eone with 10 connection 3 contacts is a hell of alot more likley to be able to deliver in a situation like that than some one with 10 connection 1 contacts. Infact I'd say the odds are heavily against the latter.
That doesnt mean one shouldnt allow that sort of situation to happen. I've seen much wierder stuff happen IRL.
I also wouldnt say he's totally disregarding networking. Think about it for a moment. Alot of the low to mid level fixers would only relaly know alot of specific folk. Afterall your 'average' fixer is a connection 3 or so contact.
Well obviously if thats the case and you ARE the average fixer. You dont really know -that- many well connected people do you? You instead probably know quite a few not really well connected folk. IE folk with connection 1 or 2.
A Fixer is made or broken purely by the folk he knows. And there's all sorts of reasons why contact X may only be connection 1 or 2. Even a corp using the fixer could count as connection 1 or 2 Why? Because the stuff is so black none of the corp J's talk to one another. Most of probably dont know who the others are. They might not even be sure that their not the only one.
At the same time they want the ultimate cutouts. They wont extend you many favours. They wont help you out alot. They only want to know you because of you knowing other people who know other people and worst case scenario. They either quit talking to you or geek you and then and ONLY then do they go looking for a replacement fixer for the fixer for the fixer.
Hell in such a scenario the cutout that gets geeked might not even be you, but your corporat J contact. Afterall he knwos more of the deep dark secrets than you do. And jsut because his rolodex had your number in it, his replacement gives you a ring and feels you out.
| QUOTE (Jack Kain) | ||
What if you don't know the connection 1 guy you need to call. What then? Your examples assume the fixer has the exact guy they team need to talk to on his list. And I find that highly unlikly. |
What I meant was that while a high Connection contact will have a better chance of knowing someone you'd need, you, as a fixer with many contacts, can do the same yourself. While a good spread of contacts, you can cover most of the bases. You can get a high Connection contact as backup, but if your initial spread of contacts was wide enough, not having that backup would be OK, IMO. Most likely (fluff reasoning) he doesn't know who to call as well.
To play a good PC fixer, I'd say this.
You'd want say 25 BP in contacts no more. You still have to have good charisma and influence skils, and not die very quickly. If you intend to join the team on the run you need to do more then simply talk.
Geting the DM to agree to the free contact points equal to twice your charisma would be a great help.
You'd want contacts in several areas. Smuggling, arms dealling, Lone Star(with good loyality), drugs, a mafia lieutenant, a Corp hacker(with good loyality). A good steet doc.(good loyality).
Thes guys are all around connection 2 or 3.
You want the loyality to be with people who wouldn't normally tell you stuff. The lone star detective won't give inside info just for bribe. You need to be friends. But they also need some pull so they can get a hold of what you want.
Connection 1 good loyality contacts should be in more high risk areas for runners. Say a BLT junky in Redmount barriens might know the good places to hide out.. He doesn't know any body but he knows where to hide from the ghouls and the gangs so he can get his fix in peace.
The bouncer as a street trash bar if he's your good buddy would let you keep your weapons when you enter.
The good loyality low connection contacts should be the guys who will shelter you after a runl lie to the police and corperate goons.
Another example is Biff, the taxi driver. This orc may be connection 1 but he is a good friend who will pick up your sorry bloody broken body and drive you to a street doc and 3:00am two hours after he went to bed, and not say a word to anyone about it. Execpt a long string of insults for waking him up after an hour of sleep to save your sorry butt.
You'd want say 25 BP in contacts no more. You still have to have good charisma and influence skils, and not die very quickly. If you intend to join the team on the run you need to do more then simply talk.
Geting the DM to agree to the free contact points equal to twice your charisma would be a great help.
You'd want contacts in several areas. Smuggling, arms dealling, Lone Star(with good loyality), drugs, a mafia lieutenant, a Corp hacker(with good loyality). A good steet doc.(good loyality).
Thes guys are all around connection 2 or 3.
You want the loyality to be with people who wouldn't normally tell you stuff. The lone star detective won't give inside info just for bribe. You need to be friends. But they also need some pull so they can get a hold of what you want.
Connection 1 good loyality contacts should be in more high risk areas for runners. Say a BLT junky in Redmount barriens might know the good places to hide out.. He doesn't know any body but he knows where to hide from the ghouls and the gangs so he can get his fix in peace.
The bouncer as a street trash bar if he's your good buddy would let you keep your weapons when you enter.
The good loyality low connection contacts should be the guys who will shelter you after a runl lie to the police and corperate goons.
Another example is Biff, the taxi driver. This orc may be connection 1 but he is a good friend who will pick up your sorry bloody broken body and drive you to a street doc and 3:00am two hours after he went to bed, and not say a word to anyone about it. Execpt a long string of insults for waking him up after an hour of sleep to save your sorry butt.
| QUOTE (toturi) | ||||
What I meant was that while a high Connection contact will have a better chance of knowing someone you'd need, you, as a fixer with many contacts, can do the same yourself. While a good spread of contacts, you can cover most of the bases. You can get a high Connection contact as backup, but if your initial spread of contacts was wide enough, not having that backup would be OK, IMO. Most likely (fluff reasoning) he doesn't know who to call as well. |
Which is pretty much what I'm getting at as well.
I mean you have to keep in mind what a Fixer is. Most folk are just used to thinking of contacts as the type the usual NPC has. Not the type of contact a Fixer would have.
Afterall normally you go to your connection 3 fixer and get a yes or no. BUt how does HE come up with that yes or no? Becuase he asks some one else. ANd how do THEY get to know X? Well.. because they know that same fixer who then asks another guy. Or maybe he even asks YOU.
Example:
PC to Fixer: Got any work?
Fixer: Hmm.. not right now but gimmie a few hours and I'll see if I can dig somethign up.
Fixer to Corp J: So yeah, I've got some prime talent itching for work. Got anything?
Corp J: Why... yes.. yes I do. It's nothign big. Pays only 6k and it's no rush. But if you think your boys can handle it you can have it.
Fixer: Sweet. Done deal. Wire it and the details to the usual drop point.
Fixer to PC: Chummer just landed you some work. Not big, only pays 5k for the lot of you. Simple stuff, no rush. If your still interested call me back and we'll setup a meet.
See in this case the J doesnt know the PCs. Or he'd just go right ahead and ask -them- if they wanted the work (unless he wanted another level of cutouts). Afterall then he actually knows the guys doing the work and can judge the likelyhood of success himself.
But he doesnt, so in this istance he uses the fixer to find him the muscle for the job. And the PCs use the fixers to find the work as well. In both situation the PCs and the Corp J can be level 1 contacts. Good for certain things, very specific knowledge, but if neither contact can help the fixer.. well then he's gotta go to another contact or find someone else who DOES know.
Most 'average' contacts really shouldnt ever go beyond 2. 3 or 4 if their a professional 'go getter' type guy. And up to 6 if their a 'prime mover and shaker'.
Afterall to me any dragon is instnatly a connections 6. But you could argue a dragon as being lower than that. Afterall it could just be that yea.. hes got the connections. He just isnt going to put out more effort than 3 for some slag like you is all.
| QUOTE (Jack Kain) |
| To play a good PC fixer, I'd say this. You'd want say 25 BP in contacts no more. You still have to have good charisma and influence skils, and not die very quickly. If you intend to join the team on the run you need to do more then simply talk. Geting the DM to agree to the free contact points equal to twice your charisma would be a great help. You'd want contacts in several areas. Smuggling, arms dealling, Lone Star(with good loyality), drugs, a mafia lieutenant, a Corp hacker(with good loyality). A good steet doc.(good loyality). Thes guys are all around connection 2 or 3. You want the loyality to be with people who wouldn't normally tell you stuff. The lone star detective won't give inside info just for bribe. You need to be friends. But they also need some pull so they can get a hold of what you want. Connection 1 good loyality contacts should be in more high risk areas for runners. Say a BLT junky in Redmount barriens might know the good places to hide out.. He doesn't know any body but he knows where to hide from the ghouls and the gangs so he can get his fix in peace. The bouncer as a street trash bar if he's your good buddy would let you keep your weapons when you enter. The good loyality low connection contacts should be the guys who will shelter you after a runl lie to the police and corperate goons. Another example is Biff, the taxi driver. This orc may be connection 1 but he is a good friend who will pick up your sorry bloody broken body and drive you to a street doc and 3:00am two hours after he went to bed, and not say a word to anyone about it. Execpt a long string of insults for waking him up after an hour of sleep to save your sorry butt. |
Since this came up while I was posting.
Yes this is the sort of thing I'd call a 'good' fixer. But with a PC fixer as a GM do you necesarily want to ALLOW that much influence in the game? You can certainly, but it'll have reprocussions. Afterall the more favours, the more intel a PC can gather the more powerful and bigger a threat they are.
A PC isnt a threat soley by what guns they can use and what armor they have. Their a threat by how much intel they can dig up on some one. How many buddies they can call in favours with to help 'deal with a problem'. How many people will shelter then when that big AAA comes cracking down on them cause of a run gone bad.
That too in itself is power. Thats why they say knowledge is power. It's just one aspect of it, but it's just as important an aspect as a gun. Some times it's more important than one. It all just depends on the situation. And Knowledge along with a Gun is far more powerful than either on their own.
That thing with the dragon kinda reminds me of the contact I gave the PC's in a shadowrun I ran.
His name is Al, he's an elven hacker who has been hacking sense before thier was a matrix. This guy has access to the programs and software above six. He's got the cuting edge and state of the art stuff. A connection 6 guy through and through. (the cap of six is only to buy not to build or program yourself)
However like that dragon, He'd never give them any of that, he won't share his firewall 8 coding. Or the secrets of a rating 7 stealth. Or how to make an anthro drone tap dance. Well maybe the last one. But he's kinda a joke more then anything.
What he does do however is pay you to plant devices designed to defeat wi-fi blocking technology.
His name is Al, he's an elven hacker who has been hacking sense before thier was a matrix. This guy has access to the programs and software above six. He's got the cuting edge and state of the art stuff. A connection 6 guy through and through. (the cap of six is only to buy not to build or program yourself)
However like that dragon, He'd never give them any of that, he won't share his firewall 8 coding. Or the secrets of a rating 7 stealth. Or how to make an anthro drone tap dance. Well maybe the last one. But he's kinda a joke more then anything.
What he does do however is pay you to plant devices designed to defeat wi-fi blocking technology.
| QUOTE (toturi @ Jan 24 2007, 01:54 AM) |
| You know that you will need someone to supply you with guns and ammo, so you go to the source, that Amerind gunsmith. |
Oh, for crying out loud.
That's exactly what I was talking about when I said those low connection rating contact could strecth credulity.
An isolated, connection 1 amerind gunsmith is keeping you loaded in weapon and ammo? Yeah, right. That guy couldn't do squat for you that a fake ID and legal firearm store couldn't do. It's just a ridiculous way to save 2 or 3 BP on your contact's cost at chargen.
I wouldn't let a player get away with such an obvious number crunching ploy at the expensive of credibility.
Same thing for you junkyard mechanic. It's useless because if your car has been damaged in a run, you don't need to fix it, you need to dump it. When a runner need a mechanic it's because he needs to do some illegal work on his car. And no way does a connection 1 guy stuck in lowly junkyard garage can do that. He needs to know underworld suppliers and obviously would do this for more customers than just you so right there his connections have to jump up bit.
Anytime you are talking about "shadow" worthy service provider, you need better connection than 1.
And to add more thought to all of this. Think of just how powerful even connection 1 can be.
I mean to different folk its going to mean different things. But can you really argue that a connection 1 doesnt know ANYONE? No of course not, they know family, a few friends and a few collegues.
So what can connection 1 really mean? Well lets use the fixer example again. The Fixer has a AAA after him or maybe the Yakuza. Who cares why thats not the issue. The issue is they have street muscle looking for him to kill him.
Crap what does he do? The Corps? Tough he's on his own.
Buddy who knows alot of folk in the entertainment biz? Not bloody likely to be much help at all.
Hmm.. The runners? Now there we go.
Your average runners who are 'starting professionals' probably dont know many folk. So you've got your team of 6 guys. You all have family, maybe a few low level friends. But the group's Face knows the fixer. So the fixer calls up the Face.
Yeah I need help and I need it now and I'm willing to pay.
Suddenly the fixer has 6 guys behind him who can help deal with the yak threat. NOt enough? Well surely a fixer knows mroe than one runner. Maybe he knows say.. 6 runners in all all at connection 1. MOst runners dont work alone so they all bring a few friends.
Suddenly, with the proper application of cash and the offer of future 'big favours' he's gone from an army of 1, to having say.. 16 runners to deal with the Yak threat. All because he knew say 4 runners who knew 2 other runners who knew maybe one or two more runners.
And there you have the real power of a bunch of connection 1 contacts expressed in terms of firepower.
I mean to different folk its going to mean different things. But can you really argue that a connection 1 doesnt know ANYONE? No of course not, they know family, a few friends and a few collegues.
So what can connection 1 really mean? Well lets use the fixer example again. The Fixer has a AAA after him or maybe the Yakuza. Who cares why thats not the issue. The issue is they have street muscle looking for him to kill him.
Crap what does he do? The Corps? Tough he's on his own.
Buddy who knows alot of folk in the entertainment biz? Not bloody likely to be much help at all.
Hmm.. The runners? Now there we go.
Your average runners who are 'starting professionals' probably dont know many folk. So you've got your team of 6 guys. You all have family, maybe a few low level friends. But the group's Face knows the fixer. So the fixer calls up the Face.
Yeah I need help and I need it now and I'm willing to pay.
Suddenly the fixer has 6 guys behind him who can help deal with the yak threat. NOt enough? Well surely a fixer knows mroe than one runner. Maybe he knows say.. 6 runners in all all at connection 1. MOst runners dont work alone so they all bring a few friends.
Suddenly, with the proper application of cash and the offer of future 'big favours' he's gone from an army of 1, to having say.. 16 runners to deal with the Yak threat. All because he knew say 4 runners who knew 2 other runners who knew maybe one or two more runners.
And there you have the real power of a bunch of connection 1 contacts expressed in terms of firepower.
| QUOTE (Charon @ Jan 24 2007, 03:01 AM) |
| He needs to know underworld suppliers and obviously would do this for more customers than just you so right there his connection jumps a bit. |
Why does he need to know any underwold suppliers at all? Why does he have to do anythign illegal for anyone but you?
Maybe you were best friends in highschool. He's normally totally legit but your ireally in a bind and your best friends. So you offer him some money and what not and -just for you- a few parts go missing.
Uhh.. miscount in inventory sorry.
Oh.. that? Yeah we had some dude swipe some tires while back. We werent able to catch him. Cost of doing buisness.
That super charger? Oh yeah that, well this guy paid in cash for that, looked like he had all the proper ID. Address? Uhh.. looks like Tim forgot to get that from him, it's not required anyway.
EDIT:
ALso for 'shadow worthy' stuff. Sure a level 1 contact works just fine. Need ammo? A connection 1 can get you limited ammoutns easily enough. Maybe not that .50 cal ammo but he can get you that 10mm handgun ammo in several boxfulls easy! WHy? Cuase he buys it legit. He goes to a gun club 3 times a week and fires off all sorts of guns. No one really pays attention to how much ammo he goes through. So him buying a few extra boxes one week wont -ever- get noticed.
And if you think thats not 'realistic' think again. I used to be part of a gun club. and thats exactly how stuff like that could work. I went 3 times a week, on any given day i'd fire off 100 rounds or so. SO me buying an extra box or two here and there not only quickly adds up, but goes totally unnoticed.
I'm just not sure why you're assuming all these people are Connection 1. Why would a fixer be at connection 1? Why would runners be at connection 1? Because you want them to be?
I believe that falls under what I said about the real power of connection 1 is they don't have know people to save your ass and protect you. The cab driver, the bouncer example I gave.
They just need to be loyal or you have a really good bribe.
The fixer isn't connection 1, the team is.
The legal arms supplier can't get you much even if your his best friend. To many miss counts in inventory and he's fired or worse arrested.
They just need to be loyal or you have a really good bribe.
The fixer isn't connection 1, the team is.
The legal arms supplier can't get you much even if your his best friend. To many miss counts in inventory and he's fired or worse arrested.
Why can't a Connection 1 guy get you something that is in his area of expertise? Yes, I agree that it is more RL plausible if the Connection numbers on the Connection Table was followed, because we can't all be reclusive hermits. But just like guns and combat and many other things in the game, SR isn't RL.
| QUOTE (toturi) |
| Why can't a Connection 1 guy get you something that is in his area of expertise? Yes, I agree that it is more RL plausible if the Connection numbers on the Connection Table was followed. But just like guns and combat and many other things in the game, SR isn't RL. |
Because he has a Connection of 1.
By setting the Connection at 1, the player has basically said the the GM, "this guy isn't going to be very resourceful or well-connected."
If you want something to be more useful, pay more BP for it. It's not a terribly hard concept. The ratings are there for a reason; to be used.
If he had set it at 6 that would have more properly stated that he wanted to buy a contact who he could get Panther Assault Rifles from every couple of sessions.
In both examples we're dealing with the area of expertise, but the connections value gives us a range at which he'll be useful. Of course, whether or not the contact will help you at all is based on loyalty.
| QUOTE (cetiah) |
| I'm just not sure why you're assuming all these people are Connection 1. Why would a fixer be at connection 1? Why would runners be at connection 1? Because you want them to be? |
Well the fixer is a connection 3. Thats even in the connection table example.
You have to use some sense obviously when dealing with connection numbers, which is why it gives you examples. That doesnt mean ALL fixers are connection 3 though. A wet behind the ears just starting out fixer -coud- be connection 2 afterall. He's just a wannabe yet, not a 'real' fixer which is connection 3.
That doenst mean he cant help you out in certain situations though.
I mean it's just like claiming a connection 1 is worthless. Why are they worthless? Just because they cant help you out in every concievable situation? Just because they cant make that ares alpha and 10,000 rounds of ammo dissapear? Hardly.
Sure if you NEED that kind of thing you need a higher connection level NPC. But what if you just need say.. 100 rounsd of pistol ammo. What is there about 100 rounds of ammo that that gun enthusiast cant fudge to get you? What is there that a connection 1 mechanics assistant cant nab a few parts no one pays much attention to such as a few spare light bulbs, maybe 'forget' to lock up the tire rack so you can quickly steal 4 new runflats.
Sure he'll cat abit of flack for it but if you make the risk worht his while and dont push it too much he probably wont get caught. That doesnt mean he WONT. You CAN land any and all contacts in deep shit. But just becuase their connection 1 doesnt mean that they cant do something for you.
Afterall say you know 10 connection 1 mechanics assistants. You don tthink for a moment that knowing that many and each of em say working at a different shop couldnt casually make a few parts here and there dissapear for you? Individually it doesnt add up to much but collectively it sure as hell does. How the hell do you think so much stuff winds up in the inventory of that guy with the big connections? It's cause somewhere some connection 1 guy stole some crap and passed it on up the ladder. Maybe that connection 1 runner is part of a team that hit a parts truck for a job, and those 3 conenction 1 mechanics helped steal a few parts.
It's all in how you use and treat the connections, not what their connection raitings are some times.
| QUOTE (toturi @ Jan 24 2007, 02:11 AM) |
| Why can't a Connection 1 guy get you something that is in his area of expertise? Yes, I agree that it is more RL plausible if the Connection numbers on the Connection Table was followed. But just like guns and combat and many other things in the game, SR isn't RL. |
Because there as to be a value on connection. By definintion of the game connection 1 has very little pull. They tend to be these things, such was basic wage slaves. Thats why they lay out those examples. People who deal in say rounds of EXEX have to know the people who can supply them.
EDIT: all the guy above explained the point that was here alot better.
And just because guns and combat don't follow real life in SR. (They never do in games so why mention it) Doesn't mean anything you want should. After all if you can get the gear from all these low connected guys. Why would anyone go to the PC fixer who's highly connected?
One reason a connection say 4 contact costs more then a connection 1 in nuyen. Is that the connection 4 has to contact and pay several lower connection suppliers to get you what you need in the amount you need.
Now well the PC could take say those same 10 contacts its really better to save the BP and take contact who has those 10 lower rung contacts.
| QUOTE (Kesslan @ Jan 24 2007, 03:19 AM) |
| Sure if you NEED that kind of thing you need a higher connection level NPC. But what if you just need say.. 100 rounsd of pistol ammo. What is there about 100 rounds of ammo that that gun enthusiast cant fudge to get you? What is there that a connection 1 mechanics assistant cant nab a few parts no one pays much attention to such as a few spare light bulbs, maybe 'forget' to lock up the tire rack so you can quickly steal 4 new runflats. |
A minute ago you just said that 4 connection-1 contacts can get you a small army of 16 well-armed runners to challenge the Yakuza. Now they can sneak you 100 rounds of ammo or some spare lightbulbs every so often. Which is it?
Does this mean you've changed your mind on this issue?
| QUOTE (cetiah) | ||
Because he has a Connection of 1. By setting the Connection at 1, the player has basically said the the GM, "this guy isn't going to be very resourceful or well-connected." |
It never says the NPC isnt very resourceful at all. It's not a 'resourcefulness' raiting it's a CONNECTION raiting. How well conected they are. It has some baring on how resourceful they can get since they can only work with what they have sure.
But tha doesnt mean that the NPC cant eventually deliver big time for you. It just takes him longer. You want those 10,000 rifle rounsd. WEll sure. If you give him say.. 20 years to slowly buy a few extra boxes here and there and pretend to use em at a range. But you havent GOT two years. So in that aspect he's usally not too useful.
But if you DO have those 2 years for him to do that well then sure he can deliver! Or ok the guys a retired mechanic alot of his friends are now dead the company he worked for went under. He' sstill as skilled with a wrench as he ever was. But he cant get you any parts.
Does that make him useless? No. get him teh parts and the shop and he can do what ever you want him to. Is that of limited use? To a degree. That limited use is really what you make of it afterall. If say you can infact arrange for him to get the parts and everything then he can be damn useful untill the day you decide he's not anymore and take all that away from him. Because he still doesnt know anyone but you and a few close buddies and your the only friend who can get him a shop and parts.
I mean it's just why there's rules either I think in SR companion or Sprawl Survival guide for maintaining/improving contacts. I mean say you take that old mechanic. He's still good with a wrench. Now through you he gets to meet Gregory the Fixer. Gregory is starting up an underworld mechanic shop. Suddenly your mechanic is more connected, starts making new friends. Eventually his connection raiting will improve.
But it takes work and effort on your part to help get that improvemetn going. This wont allways happen but it CAN. He wont likely ever be over connection 2 perhaps. But in the field hes good for (Mechanical altering) he's one of the best.
| QUOTE (cetiah) | ||
A minute ago you just said that 4 connection-1 contacts can get you a small army of 16 well-armed runners to challenge the Yakuza. Now they can sneak you 100 rounds of ammo or some spare lightbulbs every so often. Which is it? Does this mean you've changed your mind on this issue? |
Its both.
In one instance 1 level 1 contact gets you 100 rounds for your pistol
In instance 2 4-5 level 1 contacts nets you a total of 16 guys who can use guns.
To make instance 1 match instance 2, take 4-5 level 1 contacts and suddenly you've got 400-600 rounds of pistol ammo. And in a pinch maybe yoru buddy will help you shoot some 'bad guys' too since he's obviously good with a gun.
| QUOTE (Jack Kain) |
| And just because guns and combat don't follow real life in SR. (They never do in games so why mention it) Doesn't mean anything you want should. After all if you can get the gear from all these low connected guys. Why would anyone go to the PC fixer who's highly connected? |
Why does a normal PC have a fixer as a contact? You connect to your fixer because he can get what you want from his contacts.
You can buy all those low Connection contacts yourself and not have a fixer contact, and go buy the gear straight! Notice I never mentioned getting a fixer contact as something that is essential for a fixer PC.
The point is that it is more efficient in terms of game mechanics to buy a fixer contact than to buy all those source contacts. The only time it makes sense to do so is when you are going to buy a lot of them and you become that fixer they go to.
| QUOTE (toturi) | ||
Why does a normal PC have a fixer as a contact? You connect to your fixer because he can get what you want from his contacts. You can buy all those low Connection contacts yourself and not have a fixer contact, and go buy the gear straight! Notice I never mentioned getting a fixer contact as something that is essential for a fixer PC. The point is that it is more efficient in terms of game mechanics to buy a fixer contact than to buy all those source contacts. The only time it makes sense to do so is when you are going to buy a lot of them and you become that fixer they go to. |
Not to mention some fixers specialize.
Fixer A: He can get you in touch with some smugglers and underworld chopshops
Fixer B: He can get you in touch with some street muscle and guns
Fixer C: He can get you in touch with anyone in the media Biz
Fixer D: He -might- be able to get you in touch with the kinda folk Fixers A, B and C can. Not allways, but now and then he can.
So on and so forth. Why is that? Becuase each fixer has X # of contacts. Mostly those contacts only have a limited sphere of influence of their own. Fixers who can get you all the stuff that Fixers A, B and C can are obviously really high up the food chain. And thats why their raiting 5 or 6 instead of 3. But ultimately if you want to talk in terms of BP. SOMEONE has to spend the money to know those specialists. And just cause your a specialist doenst mena you have 100 friends.
Think about it. How many people do YOU know. How many of those people would you REALLY consider a friend? Of those how many would actually be able to help say... loan you $100?
But do still think spending 40 to 70 BP in contacts is really a good way to go?
And all those Connection 1 guys who make up your supply line don't need to be loyal just well paid.
And all those Connection 1 guys who make up your supply line don't need to be loyal just well paid.
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