Full Version: Are Elves Daisy Eatters?
Now looking through the different SR editions it states flat out that elves are vegitarians in SR2, and of course the term daisy eater is a pretty common insult against elves. However has anyone ever given a REASON elves are the meta-type that can't eat meat? I mean they don't vary that much from humans, and really we aren't exactly well designed to be grazers. Though I realize this may be a moot point with how much Soy the average drone eats in 2070.
Elves can only eat veggies!? 
Damn, there goes Xander, the gayest elf ever created...he only ate meat.
Damn, there goes Xander, the gayest elf ever created...he only ate meat.
If it states flat out that elves are vegetarians in SR2, I'm pretty damn sure it's been retconned. Seriously. It surprises me that it was actually in hard print.
Even if it was canon, I would still baulk and refuse to follow it.
"...Or make some big production out of bringing some wilted salad to the cute little elf, so she won't have to spoil her lips with meat."
-Roweena, rigger.
I figured that contradicts sr2, although only implicitly.
Even if it was canon, I would still baulk and refuse to follow it.
"...Or make some big production out of bringing some wilted salad to the cute little elf, so she won't have to spoil her lips with meat."
-Roweena, rigger.
I figured that contradicts sr2, although only implicitly.
| QUOTE (Sir_Psycho) |
| If it states flat out that elves are vegetarians in SR2, I'm pretty damn sure it's been retconned. Seriously. It surprises me that it was actually in hard print. Even if it was canon, I would still baulk and refuse to follow it. |
Wow, you really hate vegetables, don't you?
Well I have nothing against it. I was just wondering if they ever give a fluff reason. I think SR4 states that most elves are vegetarians, and doesn't say they all are. So I suppose that it has most likely been at least partially retconned. However reading some of the early SR books they mention that meat typicallly isn't served in Elf heavy restaurants. Though it does make a funny mental image for all the Ancients to be sitting around with big salads, and soy burgers.
I only thought about it because I was working on an Sprawl dwelling elf with the allergy flaw to soy. Which started me wondering what exactly he would eat.
I only thought about it because I was working on an Sprawl dwelling elf with the allergy flaw to soy. Which started me wondering what exactly he would eat.
You can just walk out your door and pick up a good 40+ pounds of free range squatter. Of course, you learn that most free range squatter is not fit for consumption... It's all that artificial crap the greedy proles stuff their bodies with. Don't they know how bad that stuff is for you?
I hope not; I have an elf character from Tir na N'Og that loves his meat and potatoes.
The SR2 race profiles were written as something out of a biology book. The way I read it, elves could not eat meat, or were percieved as not being able to eat meat. Still, there doesn't seem to be anything else that supports that, and it would be rather strange lore-wise concidering elves strong connection with the irish (
). I choose to see it as an early missconception that made it into some biology books in the early days of the awakening.
). I choose to see it as an early missconception that made it into some biology books in the early days of the awakening.
| QUOTE (Serial_Peacemaker) |
| Now looking through the different SR editions it states flat out that elves are vegitarians in SR2, and of course the term daisy eater is a pretty common insult against elves. |
The race descriptions in SR2 were presented as ingame texts written by some biologists known for exaggerations and generalizations.
| QUOTE (SR2) |
| The authors tend to regard personal or cultural features as being genetically caused. |
(Quick translation of mine - I only have the German SR2.)
If you take the eating habits as fact you must also accept that most elves have long hair, live in houses made of living plants (unless in cities) and are nocturnal...
In the SR3 race description (again ingame) the author actually complains about being regarded as a vegetarian just because she's an elf.
My take on it would be that there are a higher then normal number of vegetarian elves (especially in the NAN), but this has more to do with the elves tendency to be nature lovers rather then herbivores. I think elves like all animals in the hominidae family are omnivorous.
besides, i'm pretty sure it's dandelion-eaters.
honestly, who eats daisies?
honestly, who eats daisies?
From what I remember, there might have been a mention of elves having soem difficulty digesting meat, but that was it.
So the new munchkin tactic will be to take:
Allergy (Severe, Beef)
Allergy (Severe, Pork)
Allergy (Severe, Lamb)
Allergy (Severe, Chicken)
Allergy (Severe, Beef)
Allergy (Severe, Pork)
Allergy (Severe, Lamb)
Allergy (Severe, Chicken)
I remember a quote going something like "since most burgers are actually made from soy, a lot of elves dont realise they cant eat meat".. I have no idea what book that came from though.
Not a book. It was on Dumpshock IIRC.
| QUOTE (Demerzel) |
| So the new munchkin tactic will be to take: Allergy (Severe, Beef) Allergy (Severe, Pork) Allergy (Severe, Lamb) Allergy (Severe, Chicken) |
Talk about Uncommon substances!
| QUOTE (Jaid) |
| honestly, who eats daisies? |
Every heterosexual male and most lesbians, if given the opportunity.
Which is why elves aren't daisy eaters unless they are lesbians. Otherwise, dandelion eater is correct.
| QUOTE (hyzmarca) |
| Every heterosexual male and most lesbians, if given the opportunity. |
Yea, put up a picture that's not 25 years old . . .
| QUOTE (Demerzel) | ||
Yea, put up a picture that's not 25 years old . . . |
Why when there is SpikeTV to remember that special point in time?
one of the characters that runs in my campaign has an allergy to meat. This works really well when the meet 
is at a bar b que, one of my absolute favorite places for meeting Johnson. As the evil GM that I am, I ruled that even the smell of it tended to nauseate her.
As to the question of whether or not elves are veg, I've always played them that way. From a RL biological/ physiological point of view it can easily make sense as a mild allergy. Just like Black people have a much higher tendency towards Lactose intolerence, the same could be theorized for elves. Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that they don't age. After all, statistically, vegeterians and vegans live longer and healthier lives than meat eaters. (BTW I'm not a vegetarian, I've just read a fair bit on it and practice medicine.)
is at a bar b que, one of my absolute favorite places for meeting Johnson. As the evil GM that I am, I ruled that even the smell of it tended to nauseate her.As to the question of whether or not elves are veg, I've always played them that way. From a RL biological/ physiological point of view it can easily make sense as a mild allergy. Just like Black people have a much higher tendency towards Lactose intolerence, the same could be theorized for elves. Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that they don't age. After all, statistically, vegeterians and vegans live longer and healthier lives than meat eaters. (BTW I'm not a vegetarian, I've just read a fair bit on it and practice medicine.)
to the OP's question i go once more to the quote file:
| QUOTE |
| No, thats just a rumor started by my father |
Seriously, what was anyone thinking that elves had to be veg heads, my elf is almost an obligate carnivore, (the apartment is a dump in one of the worst parts of town, but he eats REAL food with a middle lifestyle)
In the novels elves eat meat...
| QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685) | ||
Talk about Uncommon substances! |
...KK4.3 has a mild allergy to all meat, which also includes poultry, fish and various meat byproducts (such as fat & juices that would find their way into most foods as flavouring agents). Even the smell of meat cooking is enough to affect her. This has come into play a number times now. For example, during a stakeout, one of the team members once brought her back some McHughes & she damn near tossed her cookies. On another mission we had a couple meets at a rib joint (that served real ribs). While there she suffered the negative modifier to all her skill tests and couldn't wait to get back out to the car.
It may have started out that way. As some have suggested though, that may have been a generality. Some elves probably were vegans because it went with the fantasy view of elves (odd that since D&D elves were omnivores and saw hunting as good sport and training for war). It also could be part of that "elves as elite of metahumanity" thing and vegetarianism is more PC than eating meat, in some circles anyway.
None of the elves I have played bothered with that. Most of my mage were more manavores in that they often used the various food replacement spells whenever possible.
None of the elves I have played bothered with that. Most of my mage were more manavores in that they often used the various food replacement spells whenever possible.
...in the old Seattle Sourcebook the listings for restaurants catering to elves also made mention of seafood being featured on the menu.
Never caught that vegetarian elf thing.
It's odd, because every description of elves in the fantasy books I read eat meat (why else would they hunt animals). Some of the non-Tolkien ones even like to gorge on human flesh (like Terry Pratchett's, I think).
One could claim most japanese don't eat meat, but that would be a bad conclusion regarding cause and effect.
It's odd, because every description of elves in the fantasy books I read eat meat (why else would they hunt animals). Some of the non-Tolkien ones even like to gorge on human flesh (like Terry Pratchett's, I think).
One could claim most japanese don't eat meat, but that would be a bad conclusion regarding cause and effect.
I imagine that elves not eating meat would be more of a social/cultural trend, not anything to do with their physiology.
| QUOTE (Demerzel) |
| So the new munchkin tactic will be to take: Allergy (Severe, Beef) Allergy (Severe, Pork) Allergy (Severe, Lamb) Allergy (Severe, Chicken) |
Go ahead. Will have a run where the Johnson takes then to a resterant and buys them a meal. Because so much food in shadowrun is Soy-baised then the runners will have no reason to suspect that the low prices on the foods is because the owner is going out of buisness and does not want to through away all his expensive food. Better to sell it at a slight loss.
Result - Runner Very Sick - Needs medical treatment.
Hope he has a SIN. Opps no SIN.
Hey, this guy over here is buying slightly used organs.
At the very least runner is out for the run.
| QUOTE (Sir_Psycho) |
| I imagine that elves not eating meat would be more of a social/cultural trend, not anything to do with their physiology. |
This was always my take on it. That elves were typically thought of as "dandelion eaters", so quite a few of them just kind of took it to heart, and let the urban legend turn into more or less fact.
Just like that orc and troll food is heavy on sausages and potatoes, served in mass quantities. Actually, that one I do use frequently since the mass quantities bit does fit with the greater mass of trolls and orcs.
I thought the thing with elves being physiologically unable to digest meat was kinda cool. Sets them apart from humans just as trolls' (and orcs') teeth or horns do. Could also lead to interesting situations/obstacles to solve every once in a while for the elf players.
It could of course be solved with a fairly simple biomod, would you want to get rid of it.
It could of course be solved with a fairly simple biomod, would you want to get rid of it.
As someone who plays shadowrun because he gets to play elves, I have always hated ork players mocking my elf calling him a daisy-eater. Of course, I do feel some retrobution knowing that they have at tops a 50 year life span.
Anyways, as to the actual topic, I do think it is logical that elves are slightly less comfortable with red meat biologically, than are orks or trolls. All my characters (except one) have nothing against meat, but one grew up on fish and has a moderate allergy to red meat. I think the allergy if taken should count as uncommon since real meat IS uncommon, and should only apply for one allergy.
I dont think fish are the same as other animal flesh, any biologists out there?
Anyways, as to the actual topic, I do think it is logical that elves are slightly less comfortable with red meat biologically, than are orks or trolls. All my characters (except one) have nothing against meat, but one grew up on fish and has a moderate allergy to red meat. I think the allergy if taken should count as uncommon since real meat IS uncommon, and should only apply for one allergy.
I dont think fish are the same as other animal flesh, any biologists out there?
I'm thinking that it goes with the elitism of elves since about 90% of the vegetarians and vegans I've met are complete asshole elitists. Give the elves more of a reason to look down on us "lowly" humans
I never got how the Ork and Troll cuisine was pretty much German and Irish cuisine in massive quantities while the Dwarf cuisine was based on the Dwarf's race and Elves were vegetarians. What about like coastal elves? Did they only eat seaweed and stuff like that?
I never got how the Ork and Troll cuisine was pretty much German and Irish cuisine in massive quantities while the Dwarf cuisine was based on the Dwarf's race and Elves were vegetarians. What about like coastal elves? Did they only eat seaweed and stuff like that?
You are right nathanross; fish are different from cow meat. Of course so is chicken, lamb, and pork. So just because they don't eat red meat, doesn't mean they don't eat something else.
I think it would be a cultural thing, and probably even more a case of stereotyping by other metatypes. I mean, they're all tall and beautiful, so they're probably all bulemic or something.
And Whiskeymac are these elitist vegetarians the same kind that crave bacon, and feel like they're giving up something special? I hate those guys, but they're in a minority. I've been a vegetarian for years (23, if you want numbers) just because I don't like meat, and lots of vegetarians are like me. Thing is, only the really vocal ones get noticed. So please, no generalisations.
And Whiskeymac are these elitist vegetarians the same kind that crave bacon, and feel like they're giving up something special? I hate those guys, but they're in a minority. I've been a vegetarian for years (23, if you want numbers) just because I don't like meat, and lots of vegetarians are like me. Thing is, only the really vocal ones get noticed. So please, no generalisations.
I'd probably think that in the Tirs, you're likely to find a high ration of vegetarians at least, since lots of elves seem to have taken the 'back to the land, crystal-waving' thing more seriously there than in others. Also, being so environmentally friendly as both countries try to be, there's probably not much livestock raising. That's more for Tir Tairngire than Tir Na Nog, though, since I wouldn't try to come between an Irishman and his whiskey steak. It's just not done (more than once).
| QUOTE (nathanross) |
| Anyways, as to the actual topic, I do think it is logical that elves are slightly less comfortable with red meat biologically, than are orks or trolls. All my characters (except one) have nothing against meat, but one grew up on fish and has a moderate allergy to red meat. I think the allergy if taken should count as uncommon since real meat IS uncommon, and should only apply for one allergy. I dont think fish are the same as other animal flesh, any biologists out there? |
| QUOTE (azrael_ven) |
| You are right nathanross; fish are different from cow meat. Of course so is chicken, lamb, and pork. So just because they don't eat red meat, doesn't mean they don't eat something else. |
...in the old Seattle Sourcebook the listings of several Elven restaurants mention that seafood is also featured on the menu as well.
No quotes yet, huh? The description for elves in SR4 states "According to stereotype, elves are . . . back-to-nature 'dandelion eaters' (though in fact a majority of elves is vegetarian)."
No reason given for the preference.
No reason given for the preference.
By the quote, I take it as that the majority of Elves are vegitarians, but not necessarilly vegans. A few, in the minority of the generalization, are omnivorous.
I've always ran it that the average elf usually doesn't eat meat(then again, who does in the 6th world?). Their teeth arn't quite as good at chewing meat, and their digestive system can't handle it as well so they are prone to cramps and stomach aches if they eat too much meat. Also elves have a fairly strong cultural/mental aversion to it.
That said nothing stops them from eating meat, they can if they want to, they just don't usually want to.
Of course thats just how I house rule it, handle it however you want elves to be in your game.
That said nothing stops them from eating meat, they can if they want to, they just don't usually want to.
Of course thats just how I house rule it, handle it however you want elves to be in your game.
| QUOTE (BookWyrm) |
| By the quote, I take it as that the majority of Elves are vegitarians, but not necessarilly vegans. |
It's not that difficult to live vegan in a society that has mostly soy-based food anyway.
I've seen quite a lot of mentioning elves being "dandelion-eaters", i never understodd what that meant ... i know this might not be the place, but would someone be kind enought to explain me what this means ? (english isnt my birth language)
EDIT :
Sorry i just googled this and found out about Dandelion.
I still have a language question : in french we have an expression "Bouffer les pissenlits par la racine" meaning "Eating dandelions by its roots" as a litteral translation, but its used to describe someone dead (someone eating dandelions by the roots is in a grave ...)
Do you have the same word play in english ?
EDIT :
Sorry i just googled this and found out about Dandelion.
I still have a language question : in french we have an expression "Bouffer les pissenlits par la racine" meaning "Eating dandelions by its roots" as a litteral translation, but its used to describe someone dead (someone eating dandelions by the roots is in a grave ...)
Do you have the same word play in english ?
The closest thing we have is "Pushing up daisies."
edit: nothing to see here, just pre-coffee griping.
| QUOTE (treehugger) |
| I've seen quite a lot of mentioning elves being "dandelion-eaters", i never understodd what that meant ... i know this might not be the place, but would someone be kind enought to explain me what this means ? (english isnt my birth language) |
To be honest, before I had picked up Shadowrun I'd never heard the term before. I expect it's either fallen out of common usage or perhaps the general acceptance of vegetarianism has reached a point where people no longer feel it necessary to use such terms. I would expect that in 2070 if the term is being used it has been revived specifically due to the Elves' dietary habits, and meant more as an insult to the race than to vegetarians as a whole.
I would wonder, idly, as to what justification vegetarianism may have in 2070. As one of the more common arguments for a meat-free diet has been the suffering of animals, would vegetarians in 2070 be those who simply forego real meat, instead enjoying bacon, ham, and burgers via soy additives? Or would there be a new philosophy, maybe a spinoff (akin to vegans) which advocates not only foregoing real meat, but anything with the same flavors? It might be akin to arguments against violent video games today: it isn't so much that you're actually eating meat, but it's conditioning you to enjoy it and want to do so.
Furthermore, we've reached the point now where we can easily create meat without the animal, simply by creating a culture of the appropriate cells and encouraging them to grow. There's no pain, no crowded feeding pens, no animals killed at all- you just grow the meat, then pack it and ship it. My understanding of replacement organs and bioware in the Shadowrun world suggests that this would be at the very least easy to do. I wonder how such a situation would affect vegetarian philosophy, and whether the principle agument for vegetarianism would shift from sympathy for animals to a phobia of genetically-engineered meat (or perhaps a fear that somewhere, somehow, human parts will end up on your dinner plate).
Alternately, the same philosophy that leads some elves to vegetarianism might also incline them against eating 'unnatural' food...vat grown meat, processed-and-flavored soy, etc. They might be big fans of organic farming, etc etc. I don't know that it's ever mentioned in the books, but it'd be consistent. Of course, you're looking at some Lifestyle costs there....
| QUOTE (TheOOB @ Posted on Apr 2 2007, 08:30 PM) |
| Their teeth arn't quite as good at chewing meat |
Oh, the poor elf cant bite off a piece of meat?
Well F*CK you Trog! Ill show you what my teeth can eat when I flay your family and roast them for dinner!
| QUOTE (Wraithshadow) |
| Or would there be a new philosophy, maybe a spinoff (akin to vegans) which advocates not only foregoing real meat, but anything with the same flavors? |
"I'm a 5th level vegan - I eat nothing that has a shadow!"
From an episode of The Simpsons
A classic. 
Your ideas on veganism are both very interesting and sound reasonable to me. But I guess most people won't bother much about going vegetarian or vegan when it's so easy to live on soy-based food alone that doesn't has meat flavor added.
Your ideas on veganism are both very interesting and sound reasonable to me. But I guess most people won't bother much about going vegetarian or vegan when it's so easy to live on soy-based food alone that doesn't has meat flavor added.
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