http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn2...20070207a4.html
I love how gangsters have known offices. It is also a news item when there is a new God father choosen.
Full Version: Yakuza in Japan
nothing new. everyone knew where to find Capone when he lived in Chicago. the trouble was pinning a crime on him.
But did the media announce his election? Litterally. They might have known where to find him but he did not have open officers.
I'm a little surprised that somebody opened fire. That's a little rare for Japan, yeah?
do you think using office might be a translation thing, were in an english speaking paper they might have used headquarters, or something?
Not really. Having fixed and public offices is common practice—it would be unusual for them to not have them.
~J
~J
| QUOTE (Daddy's Little Ninja) |
| But did the media announce his election? Litterally. They might have known where to find him but he did not have open officers. |
my guess would be that these are the headquarters of the corporation that the syndicate owns. it's not that the Kobayashi-kai has offices, it's that the guys who run the Kobayashi-kai have sunk a lot of their money into Random Japanese Corporation X, which they founded and are the primary shareholders of. RJCX does a lot of legitimate business, generally in the area of owning things (land and other corporations), which they use to launder and hide their illegitimate business. everyone knows that RJCX is a Kobayashi-kai front, but RJCX is rich enough to afford accountants who can hide the connections. the owners of RJCX hang out at RJCX headquarters, at which location nothing illicit ever happens because the cops are watching that building like hawks.
okay. An american newspaper might have written something like, "gunmen fired shots outside the offices of Luigi's sanitation, a business long suspected of ties with the _____ Crime family."
I see the parallels.
I see the parallels.
I'll try to find a reference, but I'm almost certain that that's not correct. If I remember correctly, we're talking about offices that are, explicitly and publicly, for the Yakuza organization and not a front business.
~J
~J
| QUOTE (Sicarius) |
| okay. An american newspaper might have written something like, "gunmen fired shots outside the offices of Luigi's sanitation, a business long suspected of ties with the _____ Crime family." |
I always knew Mario was involved with something bigger than just plumbing...
well, if you had the power to jump into a sewage pipe and end up in a magical fantasy world, that would give you a great way to get rid of bodies.
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
| I'll try to find a reference, but I'm almost certain that that's not correct. If I remember correctly, we're talking about offices that are, explicitly and publicly, for the Yakuza organization and not a front business. |
could be. Japan's a weird place.
Yakuza are odd.
I've heard stories of the Yaks being the first in after earthquakes, helping people rebuild, and the government basically saying "The Yaks have it."
I knew a girl who's father was the head prosecutor in Nagoya in charge of chasing down the Yakuza. I heard some very very odd things from her. One of the oddest was her story of driving home one night, late, on her scooter. This bike gang circles her, and revves their engines, she gets *really* nervous.
Then one of them realizes who she is, and they grin, and wave, call out a greeting, and escort her home.
I've heard stories of the Yaks being the first in after earthquakes, helping people rebuild, and the government basically saying "The Yaks have it."
I knew a girl who's father was the head prosecutor in Nagoya in charge of chasing down the Yakuza. I heard some very very odd things from her. One of the oddest was her story of driving home one night, late, on her scooter. This bike gang circles her, and revves their engines, she gets *really* nervous.
Then one of them realizes who she is, and they grin, and wave, call out a greeting, and escort her home.
It is really bizarre. As I understand it, they have open offices. Not "Everyone knows about the Hunt and Fish Club." But real offices for the particular group.
The fact shots were fired has rattled people though. From what I can read that is really uncommon, even with crime wars.
The fact shots were fired has rattled people though. From what I can read that is really uncommon, even with crime wars.
Iirc Japan has really rigid gun possession laws, so it's uncommon for gangsters to have guns.
And having a shootout isn't something you do - it's .... well, gauche is kinda the best word I can think of for it.
Although if it's a conflict with the Triads, or the russian mafia, or something, it's not that surprising. There are lots of criminals in Japan now that don't align with the Yakuza's ideals.
Edit: I noticed what is considered a "shootout" - three shots fired in the doorway.
That's hardly even a greeting some places in the US.
Although if it's a conflict with the Triads, or the russian mafia, or something, it's not that surprising. There are lots of criminals in Japan now that don't align with the Yakuza's ideals.
Edit: I noticed what is considered a "shootout" - three shots fired in the doorway.
That's hardly even a greeting some places in the US.
what? you don't shoot at people to greet them, in the US. you shoot at them when you're saying good-bye. i swear, nobody understands our culture...
So, this was sort of a drive-by "ahoy!", then. 
| QUOTE (mfb) |
| what? you don't shoot at people to greet them, in the US. you shoot at them when you're saying good-bye. i swear, nobody understands our culture... |
%You say Goodbye, and I say Hello...%
So, do they really do business Street Fighter style? 
blades and arson mainly I think.
They still fight with swords? That's awesome.
Respect.
Respect.
Probably not swords. Swords are pretty hard to come by in Japan, strange as that may seem.
~J
~J
mostly knives. it's not Japan, and it's not Yakuza, but the movie Chingoo (Friend) gives an interesting look at organized crime in a no-guns asian environment.
Awww. No drive-by katanaing? 
Still, high-level organized crime without guns is pretty damn exotic. At least to me. Then again, all high-level organized crime is pretty exotic to me.
Still, high-level organized crime without guns is pretty damn exotic. At least to me. Then again, all high-level organized crime is pretty exotic to me.
| QUOTE (Draug) |
| Awww. No drive-by katanaing? |
No, but they use throwing knifes instead. Sort of a drive-by-throwing.
I do not think swords are that hard to come by. It is just they are really hard to hide and make a very big mess when you use them.
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn2...20070209a2.html
Is the latest news on it. They actually list the numbers of members in each mob.
This report http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn2...20070209a4.html is even more wierd. It talks about part time and full time Yaks.
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn2...20070209a2.html
Is the latest news on it. They actually list the numbers of members in each mob.
This report http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn2...20070209a4.html is even more wierd. It talks about part time and full time Yaks.
Maybe it's just difficult to own them legally, or maybe my information's old. About eight years ago I spoke with a iaidou instructor from Japan who talked about the difficulties of getting a sword that wasn't blunted for training.
~J
~J
| QUOTE (mfb) |
| what? you don't shoot at people to greet them, in the US. you shoot at them when you're saying good-bye. i swear, nobody understands our culture... |
But then how do you know what ammo to serve them, if you haven't ID'ed their guns until they're going out?
You're a pretty poor host, mfb. Or do you just have a big bowl of bullets on the table in assorted calibers and loads?
Seems like more work that just cracking open an ice cold box of .45's when you hear the report....
| QUOTE (Draug) |
| Then again, all high-level organized crime is pretty exotic to me. |
I'd hope so!
Unless, you know, you wanna hook us up with a couple mil in our bank accounts....
I remember reading an article several years ago about some attempted murder with a crossbow in Japan. Then again, I saw this tv show about this one murder case in Connecticutt and the guy there also used a crossbow...
Was that the case with the old guy who was having some sort of driving dispute with another car, and when they pulled over to settle it he got out a hunting crossbow and shot one of the occupants of the other car in the chest, then went on to say he had no regrets and was protecting his family (who weren't present) in an interview?
~J
~J
wow. i mean, there are two possibilities, there, and i don't know which one is dumber. one, the guy was driving around with a loaded crossbow--i can't possibly see how that could end in disaster. two, the couple in the other car sat there and watched the guy pull out a crossbow and load it, making no move to escape. either way, somebody failed natural selection.
i like the idea that he was driving around with a loaded crossbow. i mean, that shit's hilarious. he hits a bump and KA-PRANG someone across the street comes down with message-for-you-sir disease.
i like the idea that he was driving around with a loaded crossbow. i mean, that shit's hilarious. he hits a bump and KA-PRANG someone across the street comes down with message-for-you-sir disease.
Nah, the one I saw was about this guy in a connecticut town who made friends with a patent lawyer and his family who moved in from Manhattan. The guy befriended the family and managed to get them to invest in some money (which the guy then lost). The lawyer wanted his money back so the guy instead bushwacks them using a crossbow he bought. Then buried the bodies of the parents and the still alive daughter. A very sick individual. The guy still maintains his innocence and saying the lawyer was involved with drug dealers (yeah, right)... one clear thing is that there're records of him buying the crossbow and other stuff.
| QUOTE (mfb) |
| wow. i mean, there are two possibilities, there, and i don't know which one is dumber. one, the guy was driving around with a loaded crossbow--i can't possibly see how that could end in disaster. two, the couple in the other car sat there and watched the guy pull out a crossbow and load it, making no move to escape. either way, somebody failed natural selection. |
I'm pretty sure it was option 2, but unless I misremember the story it wasn't as dumb as it sounds. Someone from the non-old-guy car saw the old guy get out and got out in response, probably assuming the old guy wanted to talk. The potentially dumb part is that he kept approaching after the old guy opened his trunk, but it's not always immediately obvious what someone is doing in the trunk of their car. Anyway, at some point he IIRC started heading back for his own car, and partway there he got arrowed (bolted, I suppose).
~J
i guess most people don't spend much time pondering questions like "if somebody opens their trunk, what's the likelihood that they're going to pull out a crossbow? and if they do, what should my response be?"
i blame the continuing moral decay of the youth.
i blame the continuing moral decay of the youth.
A few years back, a terrorist organization had an office about 200m from where I lived.
was it an anti-german organization or a group like Hammas that is recognized as terorrists but don't screw around in Germany-so the germans won't arrest them.
What DLN is pointing out, quite rightly- is that the Yaks have public offices in their own nation where there operate. I like the idea of part time thugs.
Office worker closes up his desk: "Hey Sanji, want go for a few drinks?"
"Nah, I've got to go to my second job, there's an old man who's behind on his vig and I gotta break his knee caps. Don't forget we've got that meeting tomorrow morning on the Watanabe account."
then again I've met DLN's brothers and the older one....nah he's too loopy.
What DLN is pointing out, quite rightly- is that the Yaks have public offices in their own nation where there operate. I like the idea of part time thugs.
Office worker closes up his desk: "Hey Sanji, want go for a few drinks?"
"Nah, I've got to go to my second job, there's an old man who's behind on his vig and I gotta break his knee caps. Don't forget we've got that meeting tomorrow morning on the Watanabe account."
then again I've met DLN's brothers and the older one....nah he's too loopy.
I heard rumors on the news awhile back that they were trying to muscle in on illegal activity down here after the storm. Aside from a few news reports nothing ever came of it. Meh, interesting the entity that is gangs.
is there a big japanese population down there to support the yaks?
One fact, one supposition.
Fact: Yakuza organizations have offices which loudly and proudly announce what they are. This is literally along the lines of hanging a sign saying "John Gotti Lil' Mafioso Clubhouse" on a building. But this is not especially strange in Japan. The Yakuza has never been a shadow organization - in fact, they go to great lengths to be visually 'loud'. Despite the fact that they cover their tattoos in most public places, their dress/speech/body language are pretty apparent. Of course, you might get some false positives off of youngsters trying to act cool. There are a couple of reasons for this:
1) The Yakuza roots in gambling, prostitution, and (if it is to be believed, which I think it can be) burakumin actor/dancer troupes DEMANDED that they advertise. You can't pick up a hooker if you don't know where to look.
2) The Japanese perspective that Japan is free of crime allows them to put some pretty serious blinders on. What they should say is that Japan is almost free of VIOLENT crime. Extortion, racketeering, drug use, et cetera is all quite popular.
3) When the bubble econonmy burst and land values in Japan fell like a rock, it coincided with the passing of the botaiho - the anti-organized crime bill. It's american equivalent would be the RICO statues. When this happened, it afforded the yakuza a wonderful chance to ditch a lot of their more overt activities and concentrate on being landlords, which they did. So they could then proclaim to be legitimate community organizations.
Supposition:
Those two guys who admitted to the shooting? They were probably told to do so, and probably told to admit they did so, in exchange for not being punished in some other way. A loyalty test, if you will. The Yakuza will generally not resort to shooting unless they are trying to make a point or it's some serious shit - because shooting REALLY stirs up the Japanese police like a beehive in a kettle drum. I'm betting they got asked to 'show their loyalty.'
This is my input.
Fact: Yakuza organizations have offices which loudly and proudly announce what they are. This is literally along the lines of hanging a sign saying "John Gotti Lil' Mafioso Clubhouse" on a building. But this is not especially strange in Japan. The Yakuza has never been a shadow organization - in fact, they go to great lengths to be visually 'loud'. Despite the fact that they cover their tattoos in most public places, their dress/speech/body language are pretty apparent. Of course, you might get some false positives off of youngsters trying to act cool. There are a couple of reasons for this:
1) The Yakuza roots in gambling, prostitution, and (if it is to be believed, which I think it can be) burakumin actor/dancer troupes DEMANDED that they advertise. You can't pick up a hooker if you don't know where to look.
2) The Japanese perspective that Japan is free of crime allows them to put some pretty serious blinders on. What they should say is that Japan is almost free of VIOLENT crime. Extortion, racketeering, drug use, et cetera is all quite popular.
3) When the bubble econonmy burst and land values in Japan fell like a rock, it coincided with the passing of the botaiho - the anti-organized crime bill. It's american equivalent would be the RICO statues. When this happened, it afforded the yakuza a wonderful chance to ditch a lot of their more overt activities and concentrate on being landlords, which they did. So they could then proclaim to be legitimate community organizations.
Supposition:
Those two guys who admitted to the shooting? They were probably told to do so, and probably told to admit they did so, in exchange for not being punished in some other way. A loyalty test, if you will. The Yakuza will generally not resort to shooting unless they are trying to make a point or it's some serious shit - because shooting REALLY stirs up the Japanese police like a beehive in a kettle drum. I'm betting they got asked to 'show their loyalty.'
This is my input.
Generally, and this is strictly hearsay, as I've never been a Yak...
When the police pressure the Yaks over a case (due to public pressure on the police) it is tradition for a younger, uninvolved member to 'take the fall' for the crime, regardless if it's murder or something lighter. The police will know he's not really guilty, but they get to hold up the scapegoat, the courts know the guy isn't guilty, but they also know they won't get the guilty guy. The scapegoat gets a wrist slap sentence, the yak takes care of him and his family, and when he gets out, having done his time, he's very well respected for his loyalty.
Everybody wins. Except the public, but who cares about them anyway?
Hey, at least the public THINKS someone gets punished...
When the police pressure the Yaks over a case (due to public pressure on the police) it is tradition for a younger, uninvolved member to 'take the fall' for the crime, regardless if it's murder or something lighter. The police will know he's not really guilty, but they get to hold up the scapegoat, the courts know the guy isn't guilty, but they also know they won't get the guilty guy. The scapegoat gets a wrist slap sentence, the yak takes care of him and his family, and when he gets out, having done his time, he's very well respected for his loyalty.
Everybody wins. Except the public, but who cares about them anyway?
Hey, at least the public THINKS someone gets punished...
Do you live in Japan Spike?
Not for lack of trying... damnit.
No, I don't. I was supposed to go there a couple of years ago as a foriegn exchange student in college, but... er... life interfered with that. Now I wait until I retire and can go anywhere I want.
So sad.
No, I don't. I was supposed to go there a couple of years ago as a foriegn exchange student in college, but... er... life interfered with that. Now I wait until I retire and can go anywhere I want.
So sad.
Reminds me of a newspaper article in the FT I read at the weekend about them.
| QUOTE |
| Taken from the Financial Times, February 10, 2007 Gangsters muscle in on part-time practices By David Pilling in Tokyo The popular image of Japanese gangsters - tattoos and missing fingers - is pretty hackneyed. But when it comes to business practice, yakuza gangs are positive trendsetters. Figures released by the police this week show that Japan's mobsters, whose members patrol the country's ubiquitous red-light districts, have a far more flexible labour force than conventional businesses. For the first time since records began in 1958 - Japanese statisticians keep records of almost everything - the number of yakuza part-timers, at 43,200, has outstripped regular employees of 41,500. Gangs have also become more efficient. In spite of a steady advance in revenue, which has mirrored the economy's return to modest health since 2002, they have cut their workforce. Last year it fell by 1,600. "These guys are the best entrepreneurs in the country, certainly the most responsive to change in business conditions," says a lawyer who deals with underworld issues. Estimates of the size of crime-related activity remain notoriously sketchy, making it impossible for economists to calculate gains in total mobster factor productivity. But the trend is clear. In 1991, part-timers made up 33 per cent of total gang membership, a proportion that had risen to 51 per cent by last year. Conventional businesses have lagged behind that trend; a decade ago, part-timers made up 19 per cent of the workforce, rising to about 30 per cent today. The sharp rise in part-timers, the product of 1990s restructuring, has helped conventional businesses control costs and return to record profits. But divisions in the labour market between regular and non-regular workers has provoked soul-searching about the creation of an underclass of "working poor". In the crime world, this has been less of an issue. Yoshinori Watanabe, former leader of the Yamaguchi syndicate, the biggest and most formidable Japanese gang, long ago instructed his members to get regular jobs to camouflage their activity. Legitimate business, including warehouses, trucking and real estate, make up more than half of gang-related income, experts estimate, the rest being derived from more colourful lines of business, including protection rackets, prostitution and drugs. "There is so much yakuza money coursing through the investment world, it is almost impossible to distinguish it from clean money," said one financial expert. "They are much better at hiding what they do than they were during the bubble era." Part-time gang members may also be opting out of the hierarchical world that full-time membership entails. Onerous duties include making cash payments to the oyabun, a young hoodlum's father-figure boss, and keeping long hours, for instance by preserving a henchman's precious parking space. Similarly, in regular business, many young Japanese prefer bouncing between part-time jobs to joining a rule-bound company. Like yakuza gangs, Japanese businesses tend to be hierarchical, with strict dress codes, mind-numbing duties and compulsory overtime. The liberalisation of gangland labour practices is only one way Japan's yakuza have innovated. The Yama-guchi syndicate, for example, has led a wave of hostile takeovers unmatched in corporate boardrooms where such tactics are notoriously unsuccessful. The syndicate, based in the central city of Kobe, has moved steadily eastwards, taking over smaller gangs and consolidating its power in Tokyo. This week, two widely publicised shootings have been cited as evidence of the gang's tightening grip on the capital. As a result of expansion, Yamaguchi members now account for 47 per cent of all mobsters, once again putting them ahead of the corporate curve. The Fair Trade Commission currently blocks mergers that result in a market share above 35 per cent. But, in the interests of international competitiveness, it is considering raising the threshold to 50 per cent. That rule change would make the Yamaguchi syndicate competition-compliant. |
That news story is Awesome. Once again the Japanese have proven their absolute coolness as a people. They actually keep business statistics on their organized criminals!
Super-geeky. Next we'll here there is a permit you can get to start up a new gang!
Super-geeky. Next we'll here there is a permit you can get to start up a new gang!
I think the Yaks are holding quite a bunch of blackmail material on hand, just in case...
| QUOTE (Snow_Fox) |
| is there a big japanese population down there to support the yaks? |
used to be a small community of japanese, but since the storm one doesn't exactly know who is where. I've talked to a few after the storm who stayed who were from, or had grandparents from south american countries, kinda interesting speaking spanish with a japanese accent.
| QUOTE |
| Gangsters muscle in on part-time practices [...] Like yakuza gangs, Japanese businesses tend to be hierarchical, with strict dress codes, mind-numbing duties and compulsory overtime. |
Now, that's what wage slavery is all about.
| QUOTE (Snow_Fox) |
| was it an anti-german organization or a group like Hammas that is recognized as terorrists but don't screw around in Germany-so the germans won't arrest them. |
It was the Kurdistan Workers Party, the PKK, which was declared a terrorist organization when they went on a rampage against turkish targets in germany. Of course, they took down the sign on the door, but everyone interested knew that was still an office. Today, their status is downgraded to an organized crime organization (drugs and extortion, mainly).
| QUOTE (Spike) |
| That news story is Awesome. Once again the Japanese have proven their absolute coolness as a people. They actually keep business statistics on their organized criminals! Super-geeky. Next we'll here there is a permit you can get to start up a new gang! |
And people complain about over-burecratic germans.
@Grinder:
No, we don´t have forms to fill out for that one.
But if you are planning to get into organised crime, a friend of mine will be glad to visit you with a notepad and write it up. You do live in Hannover, right?
Concerning the part-time business: Some criminals are not really yakuza, but merely commit crimes for them. That judgement call would be hard to make for your average western criminal. What institutes you as "member" of a criminal syndicate if the syndicate is just a social network structured to benefit the top members? Not all of those mark their membership with tatoos...
No, we don´t have forms to fill out for that one.
But if you are planning to get into organised crime, a friend of mine will be glad to visit you with a notepad and write it up. You do live in Hannover, right?
Concerning the part-time business: Some criminals are not really yakuza, but merely commit crimes for them. That judgement call would be hard to make for your average western criminal. What institutes you as "member" of a criminal syndicate if the syndicate is just a social network structured to benefit the top members? Not all of those mark their membership with tatoos...
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