What is the Navy equivalent of a Supply Sergeant? I want to use one as a contact. If it matters if ashore or at sea, then ashore.

Could it be quartermaster?

Purser handles monies and the like in UCAS and CAS navies, and would be either a petty officer or warrant officer position. General goods and equipment would fall under Supply as normal.

not sure about what section they'd be in (or what the Navy calls sections), but his rank would be Petty Officer 2nd class (E-5), Petty Officer 1st Class (E-6), or Chief Petty Officer (E-7). i suppose you might get one that's a Senior Chief Petty Officer (E-8). E-7 is the best bet for a contact.

Thanks alot guys!

Possible ratings would be Postal Clerk (PC), Quartermaster (QM), Storekeeper (SK), and Yeoman (YN)... Depending on exactly what you need him to have access to. The Navy has a heckuvalot more ratings than the Coast Guard (probably so they canmake themselves look more impressive and get more money from Congress). But these should do... dependingon what you need.

A Yeoman, for example, performs secretarial and clerical work. Which can be pretty darned important actually. Can you imagine the milage you could get out of a high Loyalty-rating Contact that works as an Admiral's secretary?

Postal Clerks, naturally, handle the postal (mail) service for the whole dang military branch (Navy or Coastie). They are even more overworked and underappreiccated than civilian postal employees, and are fully trainned to use assault rifles. Do not piss them off. If these guys can get your mother's blueberry muffins mailed from Iowa to Iraq, and back, do you really think they can't dispose of your body? Hmmm?

For access to supplies, the "go to" rating is not going to be a Quartermaster! Quartermasters assist the navigator and officer of the deck (OOD), to steer the ship, take radar bearings, and what not.

Storekeepers are the Coast Guard's (and those wimpy Navy guy's) supply clerks. They see that needed supplies are available, from uniforms to food to munitions. But bear in mind, weapons and the like are all rigidly accounted for... if you want to get bullets and firearms out of a military base, you better have a very highly placed contact!

In order to fall into the rating structure, you have to be an enlisted serviceman, officers are to busy "leading" or something . That means pay grades E-4 (Petty Officer Third Class) through E-9 (Master Chief Petty Officer) are going to have ratings. Although, for overseeing a small base or a single ship, your probably going to be looking at an E-7 (Chief Petty Officer). Incidentally, I beleive that the Army equivelent of an E-7 is a Sergeant First Class. To the Marines (y'know,the women's department of the Navy), an E-7 is a Gunnery Sergeant.

I have no idea how the other branches handle their MOS titles and job duties. Although, I imagine the Marines and the Army have some way todifferentiate between the Sergeant-Who-Handles-The-Mail and the Sergeant-Who-Handles-The-Motor-Pool.

Each rating has its official abbreviation, which I hinted at above, plus its official rank. So, if Thad Allen was a Chief Petty Officer and a Storekeeper, he'd be called "Chief Storekeeper Allen" (verbally) or "SKC Allen" (in writing). Although it would be perfectly fine to call him "Chief" in an informal context.

(FYI, Thad Allen is actually not a SKC... he's an Admiral, and the current Commandant of the Coast Guard. Here's hoping he doesn't read DSF....)

Semper Paratus!

...Procurement Officer.

This was Night Angel's fixer.

Here is a list of ranks and what not maybe it'll help.

U.S. Army
Pay Grade Title
E-1 Private
E-2 Private 2
E-3 Private First Class
E-4 Specialist
Corporal
E-5 Sergeant
E-6 Staff Sergeant
E-7 Sergeant First Class
E-8 Master Sergeant
First Sergeant
E-9 Sergeant Major
Command Sergeant Major
E-9 Sergeant Major of the Army
special
W-1 Warrant Officer One
W-2 Chief Warrant Officer Two
W-3 Chief Warrant Officer Three
W-4 Chief Warrant Officer Four
W-5 Master Warrant Officer Five
O-1 Second Lieutenant
O-2 First Lieutenant
O-3 Captain
O-4 Major
O-5 Lieutenant Colonel
O-6 Colonel
O-7 Brigadier General
O-8 Major General
O-9 Lieutenant General
O-10 General

U.S. Air Force
Pay Grade Title
E-1 Airman Basic
E-2 Airman
E-3 Airman First Class
E-4 Senior Airman or Sergeant
E-5 Staff Sergeant
E-6 Technical Sergeant
E-7 Master Sergeant
E-8 Senior Master Sergeant
First Sergeant
E-9 Chief Master Sergeant
First Sergeant
E-9 Chief Master Sergeant of the Air Force
special
O-1 Second Lieutenant
O-2 First Lieutenant
O-3 Captain
O-4 Major
O-5 Lieutenant Colonel
O-6 Colonel
O-7 Brigadier General
O-8 Major General
O-9 Lieutenant General
O-10 General

U.S. Navy
Pay Grade Title
E-1 Seaman Recruit
E-2 Seman Apprentice
E-3 Seaman
E-4 Petty Officer 3rd Class
E-5 Petty Officer 2nd Class
E-6 Petty Officer 1st Class
E-7 Chief Petty Officer
E-8 Senior Chief Petty Officer
E-9 Master Chief Petty Officer
E-9 Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
special
W-2 Chief Warrant Officer
W-3 Chief Warrant Officer
W-4 Chief Warrant Officer
O-1 Ensign
O-2 Lieutenant, Junior Grade
O-3 Lieutenant
O-4 Lieutenant Commander
O-5 Commander
O-6 Captain
O-7 Rear Admiral, Lower Half (sometimes Commodore)
O-8 Rear Admiral, Upper Half
O-9 Vice Admiral
O-10 Admiral

U.S. Marines
Pay Grade Title
E-1 Private
E-2 Private First Class
E-3 Lance Corporal
E-4 Corporal
E-5 Sergeant
E-6 Staff Sergeant
E-7 Gunnery Sergeant
E-8 Master Sergeant
First Sergeant
E-9 Master Gunnery Sergeant
Sergeant Major
E-9 Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps
special
W-1 Warrant Officer One
W-2 Warrant Officer Two
W-3 Warrant Officer Three
W-4 Warrant Officer Four
W-5 Warrant Officer Five
O-1 Second Lieutenant
O-2 First Lieutenant
O-3 Captain
O-4 Major
O-5 Lieutenant Colonel
O-6 Colonel
O-7 Brigadier General
O-8 Major General
O-9 Lieutenant General
O-10 General

The rank list is useful, but in the Navy you also need to know the rating for every E-4 and above. Granted, its an RPG not the final exam at NAVOCS... Just make up a name that sounds offical, and you should be good to go.

This being Shadowrun, blackmarket weapons should be obtainable from a military contact. But you should have a pretty stron loyalty rating, imho. Watch Lord of War and look how Yuri (Nic Cage) exploits his Uncle's access to a masssive post-Soviet stockpile.

With all due respect, that was an extremely weak counter.

~J

Settle down gents, I was just offering up the idea that overly focusing on the details of an NPC aren't too important. Plus, SR is set decades in the future with wholly different nations. The rank strucutre could have shifted, and who really cares if NPC #14 is a "Staff Sergeant" or a "Senior Sergeant".

Heck, getting ranks wrong has a grand tradition in sci-fi, from Battlestar Galactica to Star Trek to Zeta Gundam.

SL James was just, I think, poking gentle fun at this fact. This is not a military sim rpg, it doesn't matter a great deal.

I'm pretty sure tisoz was interested in getting his question answered, and not AH's ability to verbally spar with James. At least I'm hoping...

moving on...

@Thain

Kagetenshi: You are right, it is very easy to look up. In fact, I know you can find the rank and rating structure in any good encyclopedia. That said, Tisoz asked here on DSF, and we helped him out.

I added, as an aside, that it was a minor detail and no one should feel bothered by getting it a bit wrong. Life is too short to worry about the number of stripes on an NPC's sleeve, y'know?

Crakkerjakk: Ah, yeah, the Navy guys (With a handle like "crackerjack" I'm assuming Navy) love to point to the the Department of Transportation bit.

They totally ignore the fact that the "First Fleet" is a good decade older than the US Navy, and unlike the Navy the USCG has never been disbanded. (Although, we've changed names a few times.)

Okay, these have nothing to do with anything, but they make me laugh:

USMC, actually, and we predate the Coast Guard by a good 15 years. We actually predate the US itself by a year.

*Edit, for harshness*

Coasties are good folks, actually. Only service besides Seabees that could keep up with us, alcohol-wise, when I was in. Plus you dislike the Navy, so thats a plus.

I love the Marine Enlistment Oath. Haven't seen it for a while.

This thread isn't a for people to take shots are other services either.

We weren't REALLY taking shots at one another. Sibling rivalry is all:-). However, colored post noted and text of said post shall be rigidly adhered to. No more oneupmanship, aye aye, fist.

I would argue that it's not successful merchandising, so much, as indoctrination into a culture, which most other services tend to avoid. From talking to various folks in the other branches, I get the impression that y'all don't have history classes in boot, or at least don't place the same importance on them that we do. We don't have more stickers because we have more people after all, we have more stickers because more of us slap them on our vehicles even after we get out, instead of moving on with our new civilian lives.

I will also point out that while the continental marines were disbanded as an organization, individual Marines were still enlisted into service aboard the remaining naval assets of the US during 1783-1798, and thus it counts. Whether the flag says Continental Marines or USMC is unimportant. What IS important is the fact that there were United States Marines(Oorah, Semper Fi, *Grunt grunt* Chesty Puller, etc.).

And until recently, we also got royally screwed when it came to funding. The navy gets to decide how much of their budget we get, and they think painting their boats is much more important than functional gear. I had a field phone in my shop that I could literally trace back to the island hopping campaign of world war 2. 2nd Marine Raiders Battalion, I believe.

Finally I hope everyone realized that Gyllenhaal played an amazing shitbag of a Marine. The movie is unrealistic in several respects, and while the book is much better, it is even more liberal(I've met very few big texan Marines that insist that it's "all about the oil, man," or complain that their freedom of speech is being infringed.) We are at heart simple creatures concerned with following orders, sleeping with (many) women, drinking ourselves silly, and killing the enemies of our country. I mean, really. "I'm screwed up emotionally, so I'm gonna put a loaded weapon in a fellow Marine's face." I would have skinned that peice of shit alive, then made it my personal mission to run him outa the Corps so fast he'd still be crapping MREs when he got home.

But back to my point. After a fellow Marine, a Corpsman, or a Chaplain, I'd rather raise a glass with a Coastie (or a Seabee) than any other branch. And you guys definitely do get screwed as far as recognition goes.

Massively off point. Hopefully I didn't incur the wrath of Fist, or any other fish colored posters.

And if the original poster cares, a Marine supply sergeant would simply be a rank and a name. Probably at least GySgt(thats Gunnery Sergeant, to you civilians out there) and probably higher. A MSgt or perhaps even a MGySgt(Master Sergeant or Master Gunnery Sergeant) would be the next higher two ranks, depending on the size of the unit they were in and the size of warehouse they controlled. Also, for roleplaying purposes, if interacting with said Marines, do not merely call them "Sergeant" and God help you if you call one of them "Sarge." Unlike the army, we work for our ranks, and use the entire thing when speaking to one another out of respect and recognition. The only thing signifying that the Marine worked in supply would be his unit(1st Supply Bn, for example.)

thanks guys.
My concern was more that tisoz get his question answered instead of the thread getting derailed.


Thain : "funny colored" , and no beer for me? ouch man. just ouch

Fistandantilus: Well, of course Mod's get a free VirtuaBeer. Especially ones that are names after potent archmagi.

With regards to Crakkerjack's commenton USMC ranks, this is gospel truth. I once counted the stripes wrong (or something) and greeted a Master Sergeant as a Gunnery Sergeant. This made her very unhappy with a certain lowly Petty Officer Third Class. I will never fear any man, woman, or demon as much as that Master Sergeant's glare.

In context of your average everyday game of SR, it matters not a blink.

It'd be a good way to explain a Hung Out to Dry flaw. "Brought a fellow Shadowrunner who called my contact completely the wrong rank".

~J

The Marines are also much more hung up on the proper use of the words "rifle," "weapon," "firearm," and "gun" than most branches. Although everybody I know you went through the service knew to not call their weapon a "gun" the Marines are one of the few that seem to retain that bit as if it were gospel after mustering out.

I try my best to keep it straight when I talk, and I do still remember watching other people in my class perform the "This is my weapon, this is my gun..." chant.

I wish I could remember the variation that they used for the female recruit that got it wrong. But, like most things they comeup with it Boot, it is not suitable for polite company.

But man, marines are hung up on their rifles.

With the advent of Trolls, the UCAS marines now carry guns.

~J

This is my assault cannon. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
My assault cannon is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life...

I maintain than any living creature can be brought down by a M2 or Mk19. Plus, I'm almost certain that the UCAS Marines will have trolls as well. Poor human DIs, trying to run their first batch of troll recruits into the dirt....

And we're not hung up on our rifles , Thain. We have exactly the right amount of reverence for our weapons. Everyone else is just slackin'.

But really, for us, there's a right way to do everything, and therein the major departure from everyone else. Or rather, as the saying goes, "There is the right way, the wrong way, and the Marine Corps way." From my personal experience, the Marine Corps way seemed to be the way that hurt the most.

Also, don't forget we spend longer in boot. It took me six months to stop calling my flashlight a "moonbeam" and I didn't stop calling my sneakers "Go-fasters" until I got out.

But it's yet another aspect of that cultural indoctrination I was talking about earlier. If you get a buncha scared kids together, and start making them refer to themselves in the third person, replace entire chunks of their vocabulary, and stress the hell outa them, they soak up knowledge like a sponge. And they retain that knowledge for a long, long, long time. Especially if after boot you throw them into a highly regimented society with extensive traditions and an outlook that they are different creatures than all the other humans running around the planet.

The assault cannon creed though... brings a whole new meaning to "One shot, one kill."

Every Company Commander (USCG Drill Instructor) I ever encounter could snap the meanest Troll to attention in under a combat round, I assure you. These guys have to be rolling 20+ Dice on their shouting skills.

"Welcome to Cape May. The first thing you're gonna do is shut up, sit up and take your hats off ... and GET YOUR STINKIN' LEGS OUTTA THE AISLE — look straight ahead, don't look at me ... you're gonna do what I say, when I say it and how I say to do it....... You've got ten seconds to get off this bus, and you've just wasted three! Go! Go! Go!"

Unlike the other military services, at Camp May you don't get to fire the M-16, we spent alot of time with the M9 9mm handgun, . The Coast Guard takes 9mm training very seriously... and even though I manned a fax machine, like I said, but I feel I'd do okay if I had to do some kind of "social work" with one.

The other big difference between "us and them" has got to be, in a word, swimming. Yeah, marines learn hand-to-hand in basic; Yeah, they do some serious PT; Yeah, they can shout "OOORAH" at 200 decibels... but nobody in any branch swims like a Coastie

Abaft the beam. Admin Warfare Specialist. Goat's mess. Black boot. Brown boot. Bosun's Punch. Gunwale. HAZREP. Cover. Knee-deep Navy. Mail Buoy Watch. Aye-aye. Go Fast.

Juggernauts at 2.3 kilometers.

As for Mk 19s, granted, but I don't really see those as being in the same category.

~J

Nah, SR3 assault cannon range tops out at 2.4km. 2640 meters if you use an extended barrel.

~J

We definitely had some non swimming mofos in my unit. We had this one black guy called little Will(His last name was Williams and there was another black guy with the same name, only he was huge) who couldn't breaststroke 25 m. Hell, couldn't even make it five. I had maxed out how far you could go as far as swimming(former Boy Scout/Lifeguard) without going to Swim Instructor course, so they had me train all the guys that were having trouble staying afloat while the rest of the company qualified. We eventually got little Will WS-4 qualed, but goddamn, it was just like teaching the kids when I was lifeguarding. He told me he was going to murder me in my sleep if I called him "my little minnow" one more time though...

Yeah, I'm a certified pistol and rifle coach, which is a separate MOS in the Marine Corps. I freaking hate the M-9. Past 25 yards you have a better chance of hitting something if you just throw the pistol at your target. Plus it's like every five rounds you get a freaking jam or stovepipe. Picked up a Sig three months after I got out, and I swear, taking that thing to the range is like sex. Only weapon besides my M-16 that I named. Ah, Eliza.

Hadn't thought of it at the time, but in my basic training (Jäger = light infantry) everyone could swim. At least, when we crossed a lake with combat gear, no one drowned (notice: with combat gear, not in. Wouldn't work under fire: you basically undress, put all of your 30kg++ gear in your hopefully watertight ABC Poncho, so it swims like a raft, and then push it in front of you over the water. The Rifle on course is on top, and if it get sunk, you're in trouble ).

I knew I wanted to make a point, but I can't remember what it was.

Later on, we had navy and air force guys in our unit, and most of them were not only ridiculous to look at when they swam, but at every aspect of soldiering.

I actually swim qualled in my steel toed jungle boots once. Treading water for half an hour becomes a little more challenging with another 5-10 lbs of metal on your feet. I never understood the folks who got all hung up on swimming in gear. A good pair of jungles acts just like a small pair of diving fins in the water. I find it easier than swimming naked(at least if speed isn't an issue.) Plus I always waterproofed my pack, so that you just hop into the water and your pack is a nice little flotation device for you to shoot from. The only real pain in the ass is the helmet. I have a huge head, so it's always difficult to find a helmet that'll fit without sliding around all over the place. WHich is even worse in the water, when some air gets trapped in the top.

My personal favorite was the excuses I got about why the guys who sunk like rocks couldn't swim. One and all, it was, "I grew up in the city man, all we had were public pools." To which I responded, "I grew up in Alaska, all our water was covered with ice for 9 months out of the year, except for public pools, which is where I learned how to swim. Pussies."

Wait, you guys had the option to take your boots off when you swam? Next your going to tell me that the pool had a heater!

The M9 is the worst damn firearm I've ever handled. If I didn't know better, I'd swear the gunner's mate was modding them to stovepipe every six round, just to teach clearing the weapon. Of course, the ones used for trainning are manhandled by a few hundred recuits every month... guys who I've spoken to that did things like patrol or boarding swear that they had much more faith in their duty weapons. That said, they all prefered a Remington 870, if given a choice.

As a black-ops, wetwork, gungho Admin Warfare Specialist (I'm qualified expert at the fax machine, two-hole punch, and can kill a man with my bare roledex), I didn't see very much of the M9 after boot.

My S&W 9mm, however, stands watch here at home whenever I'm asleep.

Well, part of the advanced swim qual involved lifeguard-esque rescues, where you had to drag swim instructors to safety(heavily muscled, asshole, swim instructors, that hadn't been qualling all day, and like to pull you under the water if given half the chance.) That part was just in swim trunks. Jokes on them though, I just went limp, let em push me under. Takes more O2 to hold me under than it does for me to wait for them to let go. And for the treading water bit, you tread water for five minutes, take your boots off while still treading water, then hang onto them for twenty minutes while still treading water, then put them back on and tread water for another five minutes. And I am ashamed to say that I think our pools did have heaters. I mean, they were indoors and there was snow on the ground, but the water wasn't frozen, so I assume they did.

The 870 is dependable as crap, from everyone I talk to. Course, now the Corps has upgraded to the Benelli or something Italian sounding, I believe. Never actually fired the shotguns when I was in, but never really saw the point. I mean, it's a shotgun. From what I heard the qual process was somewhat similar to the grenade range. "Here's fifty shells/ 6 grenades, let us know when you're out so we can get back on the truck."

By dependable as crap, you mean as regular as a guy who overdosed on Exlax, right? Because if you're knocking my Wingmaster, we might just have to step outside.

A shotgun is not a roomsweeper, even with shot, your still only talking about a spread about the size of a man's hand spread... maybe a dinner plate with a really high-spreading load. It's a bit forgiving as far as accuracy is concerned, but you still need to be able to hit what your aiming at.

That said, if your searching a 30' charter fishing boat for illict narcotics, tax-free canadian cigarettes, and/or "entry without inspection" aliens... Well, buckshot just works. The doors are plywood, the hallways are tight, and the space is cramped.

And you can't beat the intimidation factor of a 12-guage barrel. Lots of people - criminals included - simply think that the bigger hole means a more powerful gun. Plus, Hollywood has taught them that anyone hit with a shotgun will fly backwards 30'.

I've spoken to many police officers, and they tell me the same thing as the boarding party Coasties: the *cha-chunk* of a shotgun's action tends to "inspire compliance" from many a low-life.

Plus, I figure that I can hit a 3" clay in flight at range... I shold be ableto hit a 6'3" burglar climibg through my kitchen window.

Yes, I meant 870=good. I definitely agree on the intimidation effect of that slide racking, I just think that it really doesn't require a whole lot of skill to use a shotty. I mean, at least to shoot at stationary targets, which from what I understand is how the qual course for us worked. I can usually hit about 90% of the clays on a skeet range, so I just can't imagine having to sight in carefully on a 4 by 4 foot cardboard cut-out, unless it was at some seriously extreme range, in which case trying to hit something with shot is just silly anyways. But for home defense my goto is definitely my mossburg pistol grip, loaded with buckshot. It's small enough to easily move around corners, and the shot probably won't go further than the walls of my own house if I miss.

As an army guy, I feel so very out of place. I'm only here because logistics happens to be my branch. That is, I am supply, just army style.

But I'm guessing all these waterbabies are going to laugh at me now so I'll just shut up.

*Shrug*

You do more than the Air Force, and a hell of a lot more than a civilian. That said, you are still in the army*stinkeye for u!*