Good morning all,

My five year old has been sick most of the night so I can't sleep. However, this has given me some time to think about "the TM problem". I have been working up some house rules for a game I plan to run and wanted to get some input.

A search on TMs turned up this thread that I found interesting. Keep in mind its 0430 and I may not have found everything relevant...

Here's some of my logic (I'm hoping that this will make what I type in my sleep deprived state easier to understand.)

• Mage ~ TM
• Summon, Banish, Bind ~ Compile, Decompile, Register
• Sustained Spell ~ Threaded CF
• Drain ~ Fading
• Initiation ~ Submergence
• Spirit ~ Sprite
• Skills ~ Skills*
• Spell ~ ?

Ok, the last two on the list bothered me for several reasons. You can have a (overly) specialized mage that is quite good with only the Magic Skills purchased. However, a TM must have his Resonance Skills as well as the Computer and Cracking Groups to be worth his salt. Secondly, there is no TM analog to instantaneous spells. That bugs me.

Therefore, here are my new TM rules:

• TM cost 15 BP at chargen.
• Learning a CF costs 5 BP/Karma and are "known" at Resonance.
• A TM can use any "known" CF at Resonance/2 (round down) w/o penalty or special action.
• A TM can "thread" a CF up to Resonance just like a mage can cast a spell. This; however, is instantaneous and no penalty applies for sustaining as the TM isn't sustaining. The TM resists Fading per existing rules.
• Threading above Resonance or threading a CF that isn't "known" still requires the TM to sustain said CF.
• Decompiling can effect any matrix icon.
• From a rules perspective, TMs have skinlink. (Can't think of fluff right now.)

Please critique.


Also, since every discussion of TMs seems to be required to also discuss Agents:

Spell ~ Complex Form


The biggest problem with TM (compated to Mages) is, IMHO, that Matrix actions are much more specialized, while magic is more broadly applicable. That gives Mages much more situations, where their special skills are useful.

Bye
Thanee

Interesting. If I don't miss something vital you actually made TM's MORE expensive and less useful at the same time...

Whereas before they could buy a CF for less than their maximum resonance to save points for 'easier' tasks, now all CF's will cost the normal starting max...and only be half as strong?

It must be early if you think this is a fix!

This decompile any icon strikes me as an interesting idea. How is this better/worse than just attacking and 'derezzing' it the traditional way?

...TMs also cannot take advantage of speed boosting in the meat world without severely impacting their prime attribute (Resonance). You want to be a wiz TM? you're going to be slow (1 IP) outside the matrix. On the other hand, Mages/Adepts have reflex boosting spells/powers available to them. In the shadows, extra IPs are your friends (which is why I have yet to run a TM).

Because of this I would see keeping the initial BP cost to be a TM as it is in the BBB.

Indeed. I'm not a fan of these costs either. It makes their complex form either Uber or crap. Theres not much in between.

My problem with the standard rules is with the rather high cost of complex forms... yeah it doesn't seem like much but it adds up really fast. Then again Threading likely makes that point moot.

I'm a bit torn. Technomancers are friggin' awesome at hacking, but can't do much else do to the high cost of being awesome. Hmm...

I did have a little house rule that worked much like the free knowledge points. The way I had it was based on Inituition, Logic, and Resonance, but now I'm thinking I should just base it solely on Resonance. And theres the how much to give for the ratings part...

What do you think?

The only real fix I've come up with so far for Technomancers is to give them additional "Complex Form-only Karma" when they do runs. If you give the team 5 karma, you give the Technomancer 5 special karma that can only be used to learn Complex Forms. This subsidizes the insane cost of being a technomancer somewhat and allows them to divert their "real" karma to things like attributes, skills, submergence, etc...

It's not perfect, but it seems to help them out a good bit.

I agree that TM's should start with at least a few 'freebie' Complex Forms to start with. I'm not so sure about long running 'free CF karma'. CF's are raised like knowledge skills Karma wise, which is much cheaper than other things.

I'm actually more in favor of making non-TM's have to upgrade their stuff fairly often, so that the karma/money grind must continue for everyone. Right now, short of a drastic 'GM took my toys away' event, a Hacker buys in with good shit, and keeps it for the rest of his shadow Career... no matter how long. After the intitial buy in, it's pure gravy for the hacker...

Yeah, but once he knows the CF it is already always available. For 11 karma he can already get a decent Cf without threading, as he's paying 'knowledge skill' prices which is 'rating as karma'...so he'd get a rating... um... 4 I think for 11 karma, with one left over.

Making the TM load up his CF's makes him more like the hacker, and subsequently weaker.

Seriously, are you approaching this from the point of view that TM's have it too easy now?


It's either that or I'm the one without enough sleep...

What if we were to give technomancers extra abilities that work outside of the matrix, by working through the matrix? These could be, effectively, their spells. Of course, this would require a new skill, let's call it Tweaking for now. A few possible examples:

Interference: A technomancer can point out one electronically controlled item, and cease it's functioning, regardless of it's wireless access. Examples that can be targeted: A cyberlimb, any vehichle with electronic controls, a coffee maker, a comlink, ect. A Technomancer makes a Tweaking+Resonance test against the object's device rating, and if she gets more hits, the device freezes. DV F/2, sustained.

Control: As interference, but gives the technomancer control of the object on a successful test. DV F/2 +2, Sustained

Meltdown: As interference, but on a successful test the object fries itself electronically, requiring at least half it's base cost to repair. DV/2+1, Permanent.

Bugger: This allows the Technomancer to attempt to stun and confuse any target with simsense hooked up, whether or not it happens to be on at the moment. she causes strange sensations that don't make sense, powerful nausea, and general severe discomfort. This does Stun damage, at 5+number of successes. Target uses willpower to resist. DV F/2

And of course, there would be touch range, LOS range, and area versions of most of these, and a physical damage version for Bugger, though it might only work on people with Cyberwear.

I also recommend lowering the cost of complex forms.

Erm... most of those abilities can easily be done via Sprites and Complex Forms like Command and Edit.

But I tested out some character creation cost reductions. I use a modified SeCKSY karma system, but I have a system set up for BP as well.

Characters would receive their Resonance x 4 in karma for complex forms only, or their Resonance x 2 in BP. As to whether additional karma would be rewarded upon an increase in Resonance, thats up to the GM. I will likely rule no, however.

I'll still toy with these numbers and constructive input from others would be appreciated.

I have given this some more thought throughout the day and have come to this conclusion. The problem with TMs is ... well, complex forms. Lend me a lot of patience on this and I'll try to get to the point as quickly as possible.

Like it or not the change in dice pools for 4th Ed. made all aspects of the game behave in the same way: Attribute + Skill. For me, that opened the Matrix up for play for the first time. (I previously forbid players to be Deckers as I couldn't stand the Matrix rules in either 2nd or 3rd Ed.) Also this makes learning a new portion of the game easy as pie as everything works the same.

The exception to this is the Matrix rules. The persona attributes don't apply to the skill tests (at least most of the time) so a new "attribute" was needed. The logical choice was the program rating as a hacker can be incredibly skilled and have an amazing machine and still have issues unless he has decent tools. A crude comparison would be having a skill in shoveling and having a spade or worse, no shovel at all. The quality of the shovel has a greater effect on the result than strength (the most likely linked physical attribute). Therefore, the program rating takes the place of the attribute. The result is of course: Program + Skill

I don't think that anyone would argue that the developers took the magic rules and transplanted them to the Matrix for the TM. IMHO this would have worked if it weren't for the fact that TMs end up being a hybrid of mages and hackers. And therein is the rub. The CF is the TM's program and there is no mage analog. What's that you say? The CF is the TM's spell? Not really. Threading is the spell analog. Don't believe me? Where are the spells that are always active without sustaining like a CF? IMO, "casting" CFs wasn't done becuase making the TM "cast" his CFs everytime he needs them puts him at a worse disadvantage than he already is compared to the hacker.

The TM is now a KPSH (Karma Point Sink Hole) due to the similarities to a mage and we are still left with the need for "mental algorithms" that function as programs. "Mental" seems to indicate knowledge so the cost was based on Knowledge Skills. We don't want to get into the Karma vs. Nuyen debate but we know that the 800 lb gorilla is over there in the corner.

Great! So, how do we fix it?

I figure that there are two choies:
1. Rework the whole CF question OR
2. Reduce the cost of CFs

I opted to tackle both.

Make the cost of a CF be 2 BP/KP and function at Resonance. The example TM in the BBB would spend 10 BP on CF in place of 35. The residual 25 BP could be used to max out Resonance, buy off the negative qualities, or up Edge to 4 and buy 5 BP of something else. This would give the TM 10 CF at rating 5 (6 if she maxes out her Resonance).

Does that work?


Other things I am considering:

This is what I did to make them make sense to me. It does make them more powerful then hackers but they are paying BP for that power.

Technomancers

Technomancers have learned to shape the Resonance to augment existing code on the Matrix. This is called Threading. Threading allows the Technomancer to change programs and make them do more then they are normally capable of. Normally they can only do a bit of this at a time but they can create long term threading called Complex Forms. These are creations in the Resonance that the Technomancer can call upon to augment a certain type of program whenever he needs it. It doesn't even occupy space on the computer that the program is running on. It stays in the Resonance.
They eventually discovered that they could augment Agents with Complex Forms as well. This created an intelligent agent with more personality then before. They call them Sprites. They can do anything that Agents can do but so much more.

Technomancer Characters
Technomancers must buy the Technomancer Quality (10 BP). This will give them 1 pt in the Resonance special attribute. Characters must buy up their Resonance seperately after that. It costs 10 BP/level except for the 6th point which costs 25 BP.
That gives them access to the following:

Tasking Group (Resonance)
Threading - This is the skill used for manipulating the Resonance.
Scanning - This skill allows you to see farther then normal, to see past the code, to feel the Matrix.
Registering - This skill allows you to create long term threads called Complex Forms and Sprites. It also allows you to house Sprites in Drones.

Technomancers use the same skills for computers as everyone else. They can learn them faster (add your Scanning Skill in to any learning tests) then most people. They still need to be able to code normally in order to provide a platform for their Threading to work. They can teach these skills normally to others but they can't teach any of the Tasking skills or Complex Forms to non-technomancers.
Technomancers have a lot of skills to learn and work at. They also have alot of demands on their XP. They work well as Riggers but they don't tend to be combat oriented or all that physical in the first place. They work well as support characters but I don't recommend that they are mixed with front line fighters as they well be bad at both. Technomancers can not take any magical qualities as Resonance and Magic are mutually exculsive.

Complex Forms
The rating adds to the rating of the program type it augments. You only need to get on for each program that you want to augment. The same complex form will work for every copy you use.

• A technomancer can only create complex forms of a rating equal to half their Resonance rounded up.
• Complex forms can’t be higher then their threading skill.
• The technomancer must pay BP for each complex form equal to it’s rating.
• They have to have written the software it is augmenting themselves.

Anywhere you would use a program rating you use Program + Complex Form

Complex Forms are actually in the Resonance so they don’t effect the response of any system they are used on.

Sprites
Sprites are no longer weird versions of spirits. They are Complex Forms of Agents. They can be used as IC, Agents, or Pilots. They can be created to run errands or they can be registered and bonded to an agent. The same restrictions apply to Sprites as Complex Forms. You have to have been able to have created the Agent at that rating in order to turn it into a Sprite.
The registering cost on Sprites is a bit higher because they are supposed to act more autonomously. It is the rating of the Agent + the rating of the Complex Form in BP. Ignore all the stuff about services for any registered sprite. They don’t drain mental resources. You can have a number of unhoused sprites equal to your Charisma at one time. Housing a sprite means it becomes the long term pilot program for a drone or the only sprite IC in a system. Keeping a sprite around as an agent counts as unhoused. You are limited to a total number of sprites equal to double your Resonance.
Sprites usually develop a personality focused on the Technomancer as their master or best friend. They will show some traits of their master or can copy others. They will always follow orders. Their master can alter them in any way they want. They never resist or try to go free.
It doesn’t matter if they get too far away from their master. They can travel around just like agents.

Commlinks
Technomancers have the ability to access the Matrix with nothing but their bare minds. That is about as safe as that sounds too. Because of their connection with the Matrix they are more vulnerable then the average user is. They can do it in a pinch but most of the time they would prefer to use a commlink as a spring board and home base.

Living Persona
Firewall - Willpower
Response - Resonance ( +1 in full VR)
Signal - Half your Resonance rounded up.
System - Logic
VR Matrix Initiative - (Intuition x 2) +1 (3 IP)

Their commlinks become augmented by the very nature and personality of the Technomancer. Their mental traits augment the ratings of their commlink. They still have the same limitations on their commlink as they did on their other software - they have to write their own firewall and system.

Commlink
Firewall - Firewall + half your Willpower rounded up.
Response - Response + half your Resonance rounded up ( +1 in full VR)
Signal - Either your comlink signal rating or half your resonance rounded up.
System - System + half your Logic rounded up.
VR Matrix Initiative - Response + Intuition + 1 (3 IP)

My house rules about writing software is that you can't write a program of a rating higher then your software skill or higher then the skill it would take to use it.

The three most useful abilities of a by-the-book technomancer m ake them plenty powerful:

A) Using Registered Machine Sprites to operate drones with pilot and autosoft ratings of 6. Assumes upgraded commlink on the drone so it has response and system ratings of 6. Add in smartgun link and sensor lock and you have mobile snipers that can go 45 mph with vehicular armor. (steel lynx)

B) Using the machine sprite power Diagnostics on a commlink to give the groups hacker bonuses on all rolls using the commlink (so all hacking). Also works on smartgun links and <big voice> can be used to give bonus dice an everything your drone does.

C) Technomancers already get 2 more dice to all actions in full VR just for being technomancers including perception rolls via clearsight as they monitor all drones at once and to exploit in, matrix perception, etc. 2 dice to everything adds up fast.

D) Threading stealth, having a registered sprite maintain the threading to avoid the -2 dice pool, then using another registered sprite to assist can give crazy large dice pools to the TM. Even without the Homeground advantage on exploit the TM can have:

Hacking 6
Exploit 6
Specialization from hacking in exploit: +2
Full VR as a TM: +2
Assisted by a registered sprite of rating 6: +6
= 22 dice

On average logs in as a user to firewall 7 in one pass or as an admin (+6 threshold) in two passes.

The 12 dice max to identify the attempt get 4 hits on average so over 2 passes stop stealth 8. With a sprite assisting that the TM has a stealth of 12 so no good there in stopping the TM.

TM"s are, if anything, too powerul as is. they can add to any device with diagnostics, are almost unstoppable in the matrix if played as smart as the GM in wireless technique, and really only get challenged when there is an opposing technomancer or <gasp!> offline security systems and antiwireless paint. After all, no access to a wireless gateway means sprites de-rez...

Wasabi, look closer.

TMs don't get a special +2 bonus to all matrix actions. they get a +2 bonus to matrix perception tests. other than that, they always run in hotsim... ie, they get no bonus that a hacker in hotsim can't get.

diagnostics grants you a bonus equal to the number of hits your sprite scores on a test, with a dicepool of either it's rating or it's rating times two (i think it's the times two, but not sure). a rating 6 sprite is thus likely to give +2 or +4 to the test, not +6

sprites never run off the hardware or software of the node they are in, and don't require a high response or system. in fact, the advantage with machine sprites is that you can compile a rating 9 sprite and have rating 3 rating 9 autosofts, and the fading usually won't be too horribly bad.

and finally, the biggest thing that makes TMs crazy is that some CFs get a lot more mileage out of high rating than others; exploit gives you more dice for higher rating. attack gives you more dice and higher damage, for example. threading attack up to 10 means you're dishing out a minimum of 11 (10 base +1 from net hit required to succeed on attack) boxes of damage on a hit (which you are very likely to get). that's enough to knock out most personas unless they resist some

Regarding hot sim I'll look closer. I may very well be wrong and a little too TM-centric.

As to Sprites, they are treated as Agents, Agents are treated as Programs, and Programs rating cannot exceed the lower of either the node's Response or System ratings.

Diagnostics is ratingx2 which on a rating 6 sprite is an average of 3 hits and thusly 3 extra dice. These dice stack with smartguns and everything else effectively adding one to achieved threshold on all tests with that item. It technically even works for wireless-enabled glasses or contacts with vision enhancement to give +3 Perception dice for the augmented sense. It makes a big difference!

You can't thread to 10 unless the node you're in has a 10+ System and 10+ Response. You can have a Registered Sprite assist for +(SpriteRating) in dice but not thread. Since Threading must be maintained at -2 dice pool penalty or passed to a sprite to maintain you might as well get all 6 dice for 1 registered service by having the sprite assist instead of supporting the threading in lieu of the TM. Also note exceeding resonance on a threaded form is physical fading.

If you replace the term "threading attack" with 'having a sprite assist attack' your statement is very true.

I'm very open to criticism... what am I missing? I'm so ALL about improving my use of TM's... :-)

It doesn't actually say Sprites are treated as agents. It says

I reread the Assist function of a Registered Sprite and it adds to the Complex Form which is limited like a program. Woof. Looks like TM's that are patient and infrequently in cybercombat can just use rating 6 Registered Sprites to assist and have their max CF with no point investiture. Lame.

Looks like TM's are a lot more balanced than I thought. Diagnostics, Electron Storm, and the ability to have all their CF's loaded to once is a big deal, and perhaps enough to choose one over a hacker-adept. /shrug

Here's an idea I've had what about dividing some complex forms into say skill groups.
Some examples I thought up are as follows

Warrior.
Attack
Armor
Medic

Wall Breaker
Exploit
Stealth
Decrypt

Then you have Hunter
Scan
Tracking
Sniffer

Not to mention Basic
Analyze
Browse
Command
Edit


I tried to organize these by function not by what skill there linked to.
So anyway complex forms have the same cost as knowledge skills.

Lets work on possible costs.
Using the 4 to 10 Karma from regular skills as a guide line.
It cost 5 Karma to learn a Complex Group.(to learn the 3 individually it cost 6 karma)
My first thought was to raise the complex form group would be the new rating x2.5 but my first example 4 to 5 has a cost of 12.5 karma. (15 karma for 3 individually 4 to 5)

As you can see this leaves us with half a karma point. So you can either round the 2.5 to 2. (rounding to 3 would negate karma saving of the group) Or round the total cost up or down.


What TM's really need, is a way to spend nuyen to increase there technomancer power.
Magician's and Adepts and uses focus.

Hopefully Emergence will give some toys to technomancers.